*** WON - BC charges repaid with Compound Interest ***

[slick132]

I'll try and sort this for you shortly.

 

8-)

[Fenris]

OK, now I see it, but I get "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" when I click on the .zip file link. Ah such fun! I wonder if this is an omen?

[slick132]

This should now be accessible - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?560-Basic-Court-Bundle

 

Please confirm you can see it all.

 

8)

[Fenris]

I can get to that page no problem, but I can't download the .zip file. :/ Keep getting that Invalid Attachment thing.

[slick132]

The link works for me OK. I can open the zip file which (slowly) links to a Word Document that opens to reveal the court bundle pages.

 

If you still can't get it, send me your email addy by PM and I'll try and send the file to you by email and see if that works.

 

8)

[Fenris]

Alrighty, now I've got the Court Bundle (thanks to Slick!) I'm going through paper and printer ink like there's no tomorrow. So I have to ask, do I need to copy every piece of corrispondance with the CC company? I ask because, when I sent my SAR, Barclaycard sent me a reem of computer paper back and it's about as thick as The Deathly Hallows! Only wider. If I have to copy that twice (one for Barclycard and one for the Court) that's going to take up a couple of reems of paper right off.

 

And on a similar note, before I resumed my claim from Barclaycard I did send a few letters in response to their demands for payment. In a few I offered to pay £10 a month, or some such trivial amount, in order to keep the debt collection bullies away. Do I need to include all those letters? Because I don't think they really have any relevance to the reclaim.

 

And should I include all the letters to and from Lowell's? I don't consider those relevant either, but just checking!

 

Lastly, should I make a big deal about my original application form being unenforcable, or should I just quietly slip it in the bundle with all the other letters from Barclaycard? I don't know if it's going to make any difference to the Judge either way. I suppose I have to trust in the fact that he/'she's been to law school and knows what's what!

 

Anyway, thus far I've got all my statements with highlighted charges ready and most of the corrispondance. Just need clarification of the abouve questions really.

 

Ta!

 

Edit: Sorry, more questions!

 

Just been reading this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?36692-Peter-Rabbit-V-Barclays**success**/page2 and notice that Peter Rabbit included a Statement of Evidance in his Court Bundle. Should I do this also? And would the one on his page there be the one I should use?

 

I've also been re-reading Barclaycard's defence and there are a few points of contention in there. I disagree that their statement, "The Defendant's standard terms and conditions ("Terms"), wich the Cliamant accepted upon opening the acoout..." As I never had a copy of the T&C's when I applied they can't honestly use that as a defence can they?

 

Anyway, there are a few things in there that I consider to be untrue and I'd like to challange them. Is there somewhere I can do this? Could I add my points to to the end of the Statement of Evidence? Or should I just not bother?

Edited November 22, 2010 by Fenris

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

Re the reams of paperwork, I would include anything that has direct relevance to the reclaim of penalty charges and omit letters, etc that do not.

 

The letters about offering to pay reduced amounts have no real relevance, IMHO. Nor to letters to and from Lowells unless they directly refer to the penalty charges issue.

 

The enforceability of the a/c has nothing to do with the charges reclaim.

 

Use the Peter Rabbit Statement of Evidence, carefully adapted to reflect your own case. Don't just copy the Statement without checking that it addresses credit card penalty charges.

 

DO include a summary of the judgement in the case of Sempra Metals. This is your authority to claim compound interest in restitution. The full ruling from 2007 runs to many pages but there are summaries available here - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFEQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slaughterandmay.com%2Fnews-and-recent-work%2Frecent-work%2Frecent-work-items%2F2007%2Fsempra-metals---successful-house-of-lords-appeal-against-hmrc.aspx&ei=GPTqTJP7KsaJhQeEppAP&usg=AFQjCNEvA0UuFi56pIggxPUURbEiVa3A4Q

 

........and here - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEQQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbusiness.timesonline.co.uk%2Ftol%2Fbusiness%2Flaw%2Freports%2Farticle2133988.ece&ei=GPTqTJP7KsaJhQeEppAP&usg=AFQjCNFlCMePV9BKcZLKGhFnoz1Hq6wJGQ

 

If you are claiming any charges beyond 6 years old, include the relevant section, s.32 Limitation Act 1980, which is your authority to claim beyond the normal time limit because BC concealed the unlawful nature of the penalty charges.

 

I'm less concerned about the Defence which BC have entered and would be disinclined to address it. Rely instead on a strong Bundle of your own, to which BC will probably offer no response.

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

Re the reams of paperwork, I would include anything that has direct relevance to the reclaim of penalty charges and omit letters, etc that do not.

 

The letters about offering to pay reduced amounts have no real relevance, IMHO. Nor to letters to and from Lowells unless they directly refer to the penalty charges issue.

 

The enforceability of the a/c has nothing to do with the charges reclaim.

 

Use the Peter Rabbit Statement of Evidence, carefully adapted to reflect your own case. Don't just copy the Statement without checking that it addresses credit card penalty charges.

 

DO include a summary of the judgement in the case of Sempra Metals. This is your authority to claim compound interest in restitution. The full ruling from 2007 runs to many pages but there are summaries available here - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CFEQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slaughterandmay.com%2Fnews-and-recent-work%2Frecent-work%2Frecent-work-items%2F2007%2Fsempra-metals---successful-house-of-lords-appeal-against-hmrc.aspx&ei=GPTqTJP7KsaJhQeEppAP&usg=AFQjCNEvA0UuFi56pIggxPUURbEiVa3A4Q

 

........and here - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CEQQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbusiness.timesonline.co.uk%2Ftol%2Fbusiness%2Flaw%2Freports%2Farticle2133988.ece&ei=GPTqTJP7KsaJhQeEppAP&usg=AFQjCNFlCMePV9BKcZLKGhFnoz1Hq6wJGQ

 

You should Google and read the full ruling by the Law Lords and decide if you want to include it in full , together with one of the briefer summaries that are available.

 

If you are claiming any charges beyond 6 years old, include the relevant section, s.32 Limitation Act 1980, which is your authority to claim beyond the normal time limit because BC concealed the unlawful nature of the penalty charges.

 

I'm less concerned about the Defence which BC have entered and would be disinclined to address it. Rely instead on a strong Bundle of your own, to which BC will probably offer no response.

[Fenris]

Well, I had the Court bundle all prep'd, but it looks like I won't need it now! Missed a letter this morning and had a feeling it was Barclaycard as it was Special Delivery. Thought I'd finish the bundle off though, just in case. Took it down the PO 20 minutes ago and thought I'd check the letter. Lo and behold! A settlement offer from Barclaycard for £5,108.54! Don't know about you guys, but I'd call that a result!

 

I honestly can't believe they've settled out of Court, even before they've seen my bundle. I have to say though, I'm so relieved. I really didn't want to have to go to Court.

 

Needless to say I'm going to accept this offer, but I want it in my bank. Should I e-mail them to accept but stipulate that it must be sent, in full, in a cheque or BACS payment?

 

Above all else I want to say a massive thank you to Slick for all your support and hard work getting me through this; I honestly couldn't have done it without you! So, once the money's with me I'll be sending CAG a donation.

 

I'm trying not to celebrate too early as I don't actually have the money yet, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now!

[leilani]

Fantastic Fenris that's encouraging to the likes of me! I am so pleased for you!

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

This is excellent news, from what you've said so far. Just need to get this tied up properly.............

 

Can you confirm if they've tried to imposed any confidentiality terms or said anything about how the funds are to be paid.

 

You should ask for funds to be paid direct into your bank a/c with email confirmation to say when it's been done.

 

Please confirm when your Bundle is due into court. You will not need to submit this IF you can get BC to agree to pay you direct and without confidentiality.

 

However, if they faff about at all, you need the Bundle into court on time so you can proceed, until the pay in full.

 

Belt and braces, until the fat lady sings (or she pays out) !! 8-)

[Fenris]

@ Leilani: Thanks, it's been a struggle but I'm glad it's almost over. I wish you every luck in your claim and hope it works out for you.

 

@ Slick: Here's what the letter said:

 

Without Prejudice save as to costs.

 

I refer to the above proceedings.

 

As previously stated, it is our position that the charges levied on your Barclaycard account do not amount to penalty clauses, nor are they unfair or unenforcable.

 

However, as a matter of commerciality and to avoid any more time and costs associated for both parties in pursuing this matter further, we are prepeared to settle your claim to the amount of £5,108.54 which constitutes the full value of your claim less the £20 charges refund applied to your account on 25th November 2004. A copy of the statement detailing this refund has been enclosed for your reference.

 

This offer to pay £5,108.54 in the above fashion is in full and final settlement of the whole of your claim and is strictly without any admission of liablility on our part.

 

Should you decide to reject the Bank's offer, we reserve the right to disclose this letter to the Court on the subject of costs.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

And there's the usual page of "I accept the above terms of settlement" that they ask for you to sign and return. So there's no line about refunding to the card, which is what I would have expected. I've sent the following, I hope I've worded it correctly!

 

Dear,

 

With regard to your letter dated 24th November 2010, received today.

 

I am prepared to accept the Bank's offer of £5,108.54 with the proviso that it be paid directly into my bank account and without confidentiality.

 

You may pay the full amount into the following account:

 

(My bank details)

 

As you are aware, the Court bundle needs to be submitted to the Court no later than 27th November 2010. Therefore, I require the full amount to be paid into my account no later than 2.30pm tomorrow afternoon in order for me to stop proceedings. If the money is not received by that time then I will have no choice but to deliver the bundle to the King's Lynn court tomorrow afternoon before it closes.

 

Therefore, I would appreciate it if you would send me an e-mail, to this address, when you have sent the payment so that I may check the funds are in my account before I travel to the Court unnecessarily.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

I misjudged the timescale; I thought I had 'till Saturday to get the bundle in but it's tomorrow. I'll have to drive into town to drop it off at the Court, but that'll actually work out cheaper than posting them both, so if they don't pay it's not a major hardship to hop in the car and drive into town tomorrow afternoon.

 

I was going to look into getting costs back, but at this stage I think I'll leave it. I was lucky in that I'm on IS so I've not had to pay any Court fees so, really, all I've lost out on is a reem of paper and a bit of ink and I really can't be bothered to fight for those trivial amounts if it'll jeapodise the bigger amount!

[Fenris]

Well, it's gone half one and there's been no response whatsoever to my e-mail so it looks like I'm off for a little drive in an hour!

 

Looks like this was just a delaying tactic by the bank to stop me from sending in the bundles.

[Fenris]

Court bundles delivered to local Court office and Barclays bank today. Gave up waiting for Barclaycard to answer my e-mails so sod 'em, they'll have to pay the full amount now.

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

Good about no confidentiality, but you would have refused to agree to this anyway.

 

The other biggie is them paying you direct or not. Approx what is owed on the a/c now.

 

I disagree that this was a tactic or ploy to stop you submitting your court bundle.

 

However, I will be a lot happier when I see them agree to pay you direct.

 

8)

[Fenris]

Right. I phoned the woman at Barclaycard yesterday because I'd heard nothing from her in response to my e-mail. She was a right so-and-so! Not a pleasent woman to talk to. She must have thought I was born yesterday (or the day before!). Anyway, I thought we'd come to an arrangement yesterday so I faxed her the signed agreement letter, only for her to faff me anout today! I agreed to send the letter back on the proviso that the money be paid into my Lloyds account yesterday as soon as she received the letter. It's still not in my account today. So I've e-mailed her twice today and she's now telling me it'll take 3-5 days to clear because it's not a Barclays account, which is pure BS because I sent a BACS payment to my friend last week and it was in his account the next morning and that was two different bank accounts. Argh! I'm so angry with these people!

 

Anway, I've told her if it's not in my account by close of business today that I'll only accept it as part payment and will continue with the Court case to recover the 8% statatory interest and my costs. I wasn't going to bother with costs but she's p'd me about so much I'm gonna take 'em for everything I can!

 

I've probably done wrong in what I said, but the woman's got me so darned angry...

[slick132]

HI Fenris,

 

Remember that the woman is probably dealing with several such cases and yours is no different to the others. Of course, to you it is of paramount importance but she won't see it that way.

 

Give her a few days to allow the payment to be processed. If anything goes wrong, just continue with the court case.

 

Review this on Monday and, in the meantime, consider what you'll do with the money. 8-)

[Fenris]

Well, it's not in my account again today so I've e-mailed Barclays woman and informed her that I'll only accept the payment now as a part payment and will carry on with the Court case next week to get the rest of the money back. She's lied to me once too often and I have no faith in the money being in my bank in time for the case hearing.

 

Even if it's there on Monday, that's only four days before the hearing and I don't think the Judge is going to look too kindly on me letting him know a few days before the hearing date! I don't want to get on the wrong side of them as I want to carry on with the Barclays Bank claim.

 

I already know what I'm doing with the money that's why I'm so darned frustrated with it taking so long! I want my Xbox!

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

Bit confused here

 

I thought BC had offered to settle in full at £5,108.54. How much is your claim for, including compound interest in restitution. Unless you are claiming considerably more, you run the risk of paying Barclays legal costs for attending the Hearing next week. The reason they have offered to settle is to avoid any further costs and a judge may not look kindly on you carrying on your claim.

 

If they have offered the full amount, all you need to do is attend the hearing with the offer letter from Barclays. Take a copy for the judge and say the offer has been made but you are awaiting credit to your account. I suggest you ask the judge for a short adjournment, 14 days, to enable the payment to be made to your designated account.

 

The letter to you offering to settle is legally binding on Barclays.

 

Don't run the risk of costs for the sake of a few days. Your case is already won. 8)

[leilani]

I feel Fenris that Slick speaks words of wisdom. If you have been offered a good settlement what more are you going gain by going through a court battle? I only hope that I will have that same opportunity. You are so close Good luck with what you decide. : )

[Fenris]

I'm just so furious with them! It's been eight days since I accepted their offer and there's no sign of any money! It's not in my bank today which means the earliest I'll see it is Monday now. The Court date is a week today! And I don't want to push the Court date back now as, if the bank don't pay up, I'll have to wait until after Xmas for another hearing date and I don't want to do that.

 

It's like the banks says, "We'll pay you the money, but you've got to jump through all these hoops now". If they offer a settlement and you accept then it shouldn't take almost two weeks to get the money! It would have been quicker if they'd sent me a bloody cheque! BACS takes 2 hours, why do Barclays insist on it taking five days?! I read elsewhere that a lady accepted a settlement offer from her bank in the morning and it was in her account by the afternoon. Needless to say that wasn't Barclays, but if other banks can do it why are they being so... Argh, trying not to swear,so insert expletive of your choice here!

 

As for the money side of it, according to my calculations they were about £400 short, but I thought I'd let that slide as the offer was reasonable. That's not including my costs, either, that's just compound interest. I thought saying I'd carry on with the Court case would make them move quicker. I'm going to look a right tit if I cancel the Court case two days before the hearing date!

 

I'm sorry, I just don't like being jerked around and that's what Barclays are doing with me and I don't appreciate it...

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

If the money is paid before the hearing, you simply drop a letter into court confirming that Claim No. xxxxxxx is hereby discontinued after agreement has been reached between the parties.

 

If it is not credited by Wednesday, be prepared to go into court as advised above. This is still what I would advise.

 

If you prefer, go into court seeking a judgement in your favour on the basis that the Defendant agreed to pay an acceptable amount, but has not done so. Seek judgement on the basis of your SOC plus s.69 interest to date. You could also seek a Wasted Costs Order but keep it reasonable.

 

8-)

[Fenris]

Finally! The money transferred into my bank at just gone midnight today! (Well, I was still up so thought I'd check!)

 

I've got to take my cat to the vet tomorrow so I'll drop a letter into the Court on the way home.

 

I was thinking of looking into a wasted costs order just because Barclaycard faffed me about; I had to drive into town last Friday to drop the bundle's off because they left me hanging!

 

What would you consider reasonable costs? Should I make a claim for every letter I've sent Barclaycard since I started this in 2006, or is that not how it's done? Is this like claiming back tax when running a business? I.e, I should claim a percentage of paper used, ink used, my time, fuel costs (for taking letters to the Court etc) all that kind of thing? Sorry for the questions, I've just not done this before. I am currently mooching around the site to see if I can answer these questions myself!

 

Edit: How does this sound for Wasted Costs?

 

11 letters to BC @ 15p per letter = £1.65

11 2nd Class Stamps @ 32p each = £3.52

11 hours letter writing @ £9.25 per hour = £101.75

354 pages of Court Bundle (2 x bundles of 177 pages each) @ 15p per page = £53.10

12 hours Court Bundle prep time @ £9.25 per hour = £111.00

Car journeys to Court (15 miles there, 15 miles back) x 3 @ 40p per mile = £36.00

 

Total: £303.50

 

I got 15p per letter from another site where they suggested 5p per sheet of paper and 10p per sheet ink useage. 40p per mile is what the govenment says companies should pay their employee's for the first 10,000 miles, so I thought that was fair here (it's also roughly what I got when I attended my IS tribunal last year and they paid my travel costs). Stamps are self explanatory. I may have used a few 1st class ones but I can't remember, so to keep it reasonable I've done them all as 2nd class. I may also have sent one or two by Recorded Delivery but I have no proof. And the £9.25 per hour seems to be the agreed amount for this kind of thing.

 

Have I missed anything? Does this seem reasonable?

Edited December 6, 2010 by Fenris

[slick132]

Hi Fenris,

 

Glad to see this is now sorted and paid in full !

 

See here if you want to use the hearing to seek a WCO - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?581-Wasted-Costs-order

 

If you do this, drop the court a letter confirming that you are discontinuing your claim as settlement has been reached. But confirm your wish to attend to seek a WCO.

 

You would be able to make the point that BC never defend properly in such cases. They enter a defence every time but never submit evidence in support which is why they settle before the court hearings.

 

Thread title changed to reflect your win. 8)

Edited December 6, 2010 by slick132
put in the correct link

[Fenris]

Thanks Slick! You must have done that whist I was editing my last post!

 

Edit: Slick, your link takes me to the debt help section of the wikki. I can find info on the WCO but I can't see how to use the hearing date for it.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Fenris