'Lost' Chequebook & guarantee card and Certegy

[matthew_dmp]

Hello

 

I took out a £400 payday loan with Cash Generator. I had paid the rollover fees several months.

 

I am already on a debt management plan with the cccs but got a bit desperate and had to borrow this money (foolishly)

 

I tried to roll over the cheques in June, but I was told that he could not do it. The manager of the shop made a phone call and said they were unable to authorise all of them. (I did not even know it was Certegy and there was no explanation or POS materials displayed in the shop).

 

I tried to come to an arrangement to pay £50 a month to Cash Generator and pay £100 that week. But they just said they would have to go to the bank.

 

I cancelled my cheque book and guarantee card by reporting them as lost. The cheques bounced (no charges from the bank).

 

Today I received a letter from Certegy who have bought the debt and added £45 on to each £100 owing. I phoned them and they threatened to take me to court if I do not pay in full. They have quoted the Bill of Exchange Act 1882 and said that it is fraud etc.

 

I have passed Certegy's details onto CCCS (they were already aware of Cash Generator), the first payment was supposed to be due in August.

 

Not keen on the £45 charges from Certegy or the additional charges they may add. They are probably going to get £10 a month from the CCCS.

 

Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated. I am wondering what to do next.

Edited August 19, 2009 by matthew_dmp

[42man]

The charges are excessive and i'd say this was against the OFT's guidelines which state - Section 2.10 -

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual

and necessary costs

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

[katpuss]

Well done for stopping the cheques, if you can't afford to pay then you can't pay, simple as that. At least you tried to come to an arrangement.

 

Did Certegy tell you what the £45 additional charge was?

 

I am on a dmp with the cccs and had to add a debt on to my dmp. They will write to the creditor to advise them that you are on a dmp and that xxxx is all you can afford.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about this at the moment, let the cccs do their job.

 

I've just done some research on the Bill of Exchange Act and Certegy would find it very hard to get you on this. You have not committed fraud, the only way you could have done this is by falsifying details Cash Generator and using a fraudulently obtained bank account to get the cash advance. The bill says that if you default on an agreed payment then this is a breech but please don't worry about this. It's just fancy wording to try and scare you.

 

Also have Certegy given you evidence of them buying the debt? I mean any company can send any letter if they want to.

[matthew_dmp]

Did Certegy tell you what the £45 additional charge was?

 

Also have Certegy given you evidence of them buying the debt? I mean any company can send any letter if they want to.

 

Thanks for the responses. Certegy have not given me evidence of them buying the debt. They have only sent me four letters, one for each cheque. I'm pretty sure they have bought the debt.

 

They did not tell me what the additional £45 charge was. On the letter it only states £45 fee (FIXED)

[matthew_dmp]

Just wondering - Should I write to Certegy to express my feelings about the £45 charges and quote the above OFT guidelines, kindly posted by 42man.

 

As I will be paying through the CCCS, I think they will continue to pay what I can afford each month, regardless of the excessive charges. I do not want to be in a position where they start to add more and more charges.

[42man]

If it was me in your position then I certainly would.....ask them what the charges are made up of/breakdown of how they are made up and quote the OFT's guidelines

[matthew_dmp]

Okay, thanks for your help so far. I have drafted a letter to Certegy:

 

Dear sir or madam

 

I write with reference to your recent letters regarding the cheques made payable to Cash Generator.

 

I am willing to pay £400, the total amount of the four cheques, in monthly installments as part of my debt management plan with the CCCS. They already have your details and should be in a position to make you an offer in the coming weeks and a payment at the end of September.

 

I am rather concerned by the charges added to my debt, which total £180. I would request that these charges are waived given that they are excessive and in breach of the OFT guidelines, which state - Section 2.10

 

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs

 

e. applying charges which are disproportionate to the main debt.

 

Therefore, please could you provide a breakdown of what the £45 charges are made up of and how these fit in with the OFT guidelines stated above. It is very important to me that you provide a full breakdown of how you reach the amount of £45 per £100 owing.

 

I was not aware that I was dealing with your company until I received your letter. I was already in the process of arranging for the CCCS to make payments by monthly installments to Cash Generator.

There was no signage displayed in the Cash Generator store relating to Certegy. I did try to arrange a repayment plan with the store, however, their policy was to bank the cheques.

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me and respond by letter.

 

Yours sincerely

[42man]

Good, send recorded delivery....

[matthew_dmp]

They have not replied to my letter yet, so I have emailed it to them and stated that it was posted recorded delivery.

 

I did receive a letter today (which looks computer generated)...

 

We wrote to you recently to advise you of the dishonour of the above cheque(s) for £100 x 4. We note that the above balance is still unpaid. Following your failure to make good the dishonour of the cheques we now have the right to sue on the cheque against you as drawer, pursuant to the CHEQUES ACT 1957.

 

We must advise you that unless payment is received within 72 hours, we may arrange to issue a summons against you for the value of the cheque together with costs and interest pursuant to S69 COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984.

 

The above mentioned costs will include COURT FEES of £30.00 TOGETHER WITH SOLICITORS FEES OF £50 PER DEBT (which means £200 - 4 cheques) PLUS INTEREST AT 8% P.A.

 

You may be able to avoid legal action by calling NOW on 0121 410 4567. We strongly recommend that when you call you have a credit or debit card with you so that we can take immediate payment to settle the account.

 

Yours faithfully

 

M Harris

 

--------------------

 

I called them to ask if they received my letter and they were quite rude so I ended up swearing at them! Won't be calling them again

 

 

Any suggestions please people - the cccs are currently in the process of setting up payment to them (approx £10 per month)

Edited September 8, 2009 by matthew_dmp

[ScarletPimpernel]

First thing is not to speak to them on the phone - ever! It's a waste of time and serves only to increase the stress.

 

Their latest template letter contains the magic DCA word - 'may'. They may issue a summons, or they may realise that they have nothing to gain by doing it - even if they got judgment they'd end up with £1 a month. Note that the charges are not mentioned.

 

I don't think Certegy have bought the debt - the cheques have probably been endorsed as payable to them by Cash Generator.

 

I'd be inclined to advise Certegy, in writing, that CCCS are your appointed representatives, and so, in accordance with OFT Guidance, they must now deal with CCCS. Let CCS know that you are only willing to repay the original sum - no extra charges etc.

[matthew_dmp]

Many thanks for your reply ScarletPimpernel.

 

I will certainly write to them and advise them to deal only with the cccs. I spoke to the cccs earlier and they said that they are unable to only pay the original £400, as the creditors are entitled to add these charges

[mjc007.5]

Hiya,

 

Top advice already from Katpuss and 42man. The "cheques act" 1957 - obscure piece of legislation (amended 1992). My best reading of this is that all it actually does is provide the company providing you with the funds some protection against your claiming they did anything wrong or showed incompetence in paying you funds against the cheques!! I can find no mention of fraud in either this or the bill of exchange - as Katpuss says you have a technical breech of agreement with not paying as arranged but this is no more severe than if they cannot provide proper evidence of assignment (I would think).

 

The suggestion of fraud is in fact absurd - the whole premise of this "sector" is that the cheque is an IOU to repay funds loaned now at some point in the future (and in most of cases they will accept this is perpetually "rolled over" as they make much more than the sum loaned to you). To suggest fraud intent would need to be demonstrated (ie cheques were written without any hope or intention of ever paying back what was borrowed) which contradicts their business model. Where the cheques are issued as Katpuss describes or for immediate presentation to an account with the knowledge or intention that funds are not or will not be available then that is very likely fraudulent but in most cases with people caught out in this sector this will not be what has happened (despite what the companies may claim!).

 

 

In terms of dealings with these folks and your current situation would suggest -

1. No further discussion on the telephone. Personally I think often worth an initial discussion to see if there is some common ground which is contrary to establised opinion here (as long as you tell them any agreement subject to their written or email confirmation of the same). Unfortunately here it would appear their initial position is not to negotiate (and can understand your reaction to them but will prevent you from being in the position of needing to tell them foxtrot Oscar again! )
   
2. As Katpuss has suggested let CCCS do their work - refer any further communications to them, bear in mind that if they were brave enough to go to court they would get (at best) a pro-rata amount based on the same principles that CCCS and others are using.
   
3. In the meantime I would go for a CCA request and see if you can tie that up copies of any notices of assignment (amend/add to the CCA request template). Worth a shot as only £1 postal order (rather than £10 SAR), shorter time scales and my (limited) experience so far suggests that a number of these agreements are likely to be flawed (either as credit agreements or without detailing any contractual right of assigment).
   

I am applying the same principles as you (ie payment of loaned principle but not charges/interest) with some success so stick to your guns!

 

Best of luck and keep posting

[mjc007.5]

And Scarletpimpernel - got sidetracked at work so delayed in posting!

[matthew_dmp]

I received a postcard on Tuesday

 

This is from Certegy as it has their company registration number on it, however it shows the company logo RCM.

 

I googled it and it seems to be an empty threat and no-one will turn up.

 

The card reads

 

I CONFIRM THAT I WILL BE CALLING ON TUESDAY

Between 9am - 9pm

 

If inconvenient please telephone (0870 240 4582) quoting the reference number printed on the address side of the card,

 

regards, M. OWEN

 

----

 

No one called at my home, which is a shame really as I would have asked for his autograph lol

 

Waiting for my CCA request to come back, posted the request with the postal order on 15th Sep

[sillygirl1]

Send the calling card to the local Trading Standards, they are not supposed to do that and ask you to call on an 0870 number, naughty naughty.

[matthew_dmp]

Okay, I sent my CCA request on 15 September. I sent this by 'signed for' with Royal Mail and I cannot get confirmation using the number online. It just says there has been an error and to call Royal Mail on their 0845 number. May do that later on.

 

I moved house on Sunday 4 October and did not receive a reply up to then. Should I tell them my new address?

[matthew_dmp]

Any suggestions please. I cannot find their letters since moving home.

 

I have called them and they cannot find me through searching under my old address. I'm guessing that they have sold the debt onto a DCA.

 

If they have done this and not provided a copy of the CCA are they in the wrong. I want the CCA request at my new address but they cant find me by doing a search on my old address!

[matthew_dmp]

I have still not received the CCA. I cannot prove they received the postal order and letter though.

 

When I moved home I lost the reference number for my recorded delivery.

 

I have not informed Certegy of my new address. My landlord has given me 3 letters from 'RCM' - still Certegy but just a different name. Surely they should not be doing this when the account is in dispute?