DVLA Late Licensing Penalty

[rob840]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm new here and was glad to have found this forum after googling "DVLA Late Licensing" in connection with a notice I recently received.

 

I have read with great interest all the posts so far in this topic and it appears to me that I am starting over in the same situation as Sweeney Todd..

 

I sold a vehicle on eBay 31/05/2009, both the tax and mot was expiring on this date. The buyer collected the vehicle the next day, I completed the registration document with the new keepers details (as of 31/05/2009) and posted it to DVLA immediately.

 

Last week (4 months later) I received a FINAL NOTIFICATION from DVLA Area Enforcement Office, Garrets Green, Birmingham, stating that "A payment of an £80.00 penalty was recently requested from you for failing to relicense the vehicle. This has not been received".

 

"Failure to pay could result in one or more of the following actions:

 

* Your vehicle could be clamped, which would incur further charges.

* Your vehicle can be removed and may be destroyed, should you fail to pay the costs to remove the clamp.

* You could be subject to a County Court Judgement, which will seriously affect your ability to gain credit in the future.

* The debt can be passed to a Debt Recovery Agency.

 

To avoid the above action you must pay now."

 

The letter had no name or contact telephone, just the address, the office hours and a reference number. I googled and found a landline number for the Preston Office on SAYNOTO0870.com website, then called them to see WTF was going on.

 

They said I had not responded to a previous letter requesting £40.00 (which I had never received) and now must pay the £80.00.

I explained the vehicle was sold over 4 months ago and the registration document, completed with change of keeper, was sent to DVLA at the time.

I was told that I should have received a confirmation notice from DVLA for receipt of the registration and should have contacted them within 4 weeks if not.

I did not receive any confirmation and was not expecting one as I don't sell vehicles very often and this was all news to me.

I was advised that I should write back to the address on the notice, explaining the situation and enclosing any evidence I have regarding the sale of the vehicle.

 

I would welcome any advice/help on the best course of action to take..

 

Should I send DVLA a letter with a copy of the eBay sale notification and new keepers details?

Or should I ignore them as I believe I have done my duty and complied with the legal requirement?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[RHOOD]

subbing as i've got one of these letters

 

Found my Aknowledgement letter when i scrapped the car and

FINAL NOTIFICATION arrived 3 months later

[JimmySpangle]

There is NO legal requirement to chase up DVLA whatsoever. Your only requirement is to send the V5c to DVLA. Once that has been done, that is that.

 

As long as the V5c was signed on 31st then the sale is complete and whether the car is then taxed/sorn/abandeoned or even eaten, it is irrelevant and not your responsibility.

 

Do everything in writing - never by phone. Simply write back and state that you ceased to be the owner on 31/05/09 and the appropriate section of the V5c was sent to DVLA on the same day - thus you have complied fully with the law. If they feel you haven't then invite them to take you to court - where you will win the case.

[rob840]

@JimmySpangle - thanks for the quick response and advice.

 

Here is the letter I am about to send;

 

-----------------------------------

Re: FINAL NOTIFICATION: XXXX XXX

Your Ref: 123 XXXX XXX

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I write with reference to your letter / notice dated 9 October 2009 ( copy attached ).

 

Please take notice that I am no longer the owner or keeper of the vehicle referred to and ceased to be on 31/05/2009 when the vehicle was sold. The completed, appropriate section of the V5c was duly sent to DVLA on the same day.

 

I understand that the action of returning the V5c to the DVLA is the full extent of my legal obligations in the matter and therefore I have fully complied with the requirements of the law.

 

I would suggest that you direct any further communications regarding the licensing of the vehicle with new owner / keeper, whose details are provided in the attached proof of sale.

 

Thank you.

 

Yours Sincerely

rob840

 

-----------------------------------

I would appreciate any comments / suggestions you may have before I send it off.

 

Many thanks.

[Kaz1]

Sweeney Todd - The bit where they say "you must pay the £80 penalty" is unqualified legal advice. What they really mean is "you dont have to pay the £80 if you dont want to and you are quite entitled to take the matter to court where our client (the DVLA) will have a rather difficult job proving that you are guilty of the offence"

 

I would now ignore all letters from these DCA morons.

 

N.

Hi there, Have just joined today and read with interest your very informative advice and would like to ask your advice re my situation. I part exchanged a car for a newer one with a reputable car dealership last December (2008), completed my VC5 and took it along with my tax disc from the old car (as it still had 11 months tax on it and the new car was already taxed) for refund to our local DVLA office. They accepted both. I recieved a cheque for the tax refund approx 6 weeks later made out incorrectly (they had my first name initial wrong) so | had to send it back with an explanatory letter, they eventually sent me a new cheque filled out correctly. Time went on, stuff happened, we enjoyed our new car and then WHAM low and behold last week we received a letter from a DCA demading that as we had ignored all previous letters we must pay £80. immediately? I thought it was a cruel joke, I telephoned the DCA and said "what previous letters had I ignored and what was this fine all about"? They said that they had sent numerous letter to my old address so I asked the obvious, how did they get my new address? Had all the previous letters been returned unopened, to which they replied "no". They said that they had the means to find out my present address and that is how they found me. I insisted that I had not received any letters from them or the DVLA and wondered what the hell was going on? All they were interested in was when I was going to get my credit card to pay my fine! Eventually they told me that the reason I had recived a fine was bcause I had not sent the DVLA my completed VC5, I pleaded with them that I did indeed as I remember it so well as it was also the day I had handed in my tax disc for a refund. They were very insistant that I pay them the money but I told them that I was going to get to the bottom of this and put the phone down. I contact the dealership who were very supportive and could not believe what they were playing at. They kindly sent the DVLA and the DCA a letter stating that they had taken the car in part exchange from me and verified that they were the owners from last December. This apparently mnade no difference - I was still liable to pay the £80. as it was my fault that I did not chase the matter up 4 weeks after handing in my VC5. I naively was unaware of this law and can not prove that I handed my VC5 in. The dealership are disgusted, in fact they have offered to pay the £80 for us (we are good customers of theirs). I have written a letter of defence to the DVLA and am awaiting a reply. What do you think of that?

[kiptower]

what you were told is total rubbish

 

quote

 

"as it was my fault that I did not chase the matter up 4 weeks after handing in my VC5"

 

there is nothing in law that requires you to do so

 

have a read on the other posts regarding DVLA , its all explained in many of them

[Kaz1]

Thankyou Kiptower for you speedy reply. This is all very confusing as we did try to argue this with the "jobsworth" at our local DVLA who just kept quoting over and over again from the DVLA small print "DVLA will issue an acknowledgement letter after 4 weeks to confirm you are no longer the Registered Keeper. If the acknowledgement letter is not received please contact DVLA" he then kept adding on "it is your responsibility to ensure that this is acted upon. We did ask them to prove that we did not hand in our VC5 and he said "no it is up to you to prove that you did" - STALEMATE i think!

[JimmySpangle]

After, means after not by. In other words after 4 weeks could be 5 weeks, 27 weeks, 137,683 years...... It is an indefinite time which is their down fall.

 

The law (which is what any judge will go by) is that you notify DVLA of changes etc by returning the V5c portion to DVLA by post. Once posted you have complied with the law fully. DVLA are fully aware of this and are just hoping to [problem] as many people into paying as they can.

 

Ignore them and let them take you to court. Then win and get paid to have a morning off work!

[Kaz1]

THANK YOU, you have just convinced me sit back and let them do their worst.

 

Has anyone ouththere actually fought the DVLA and beat them or actually been to court and won their case?

[JimmySpangle]

Plenty. Have a read through the DVLA section and you will that everyone who actually gets taken to court and turns up, wins.

[Kaz1]

Hi, just wanted to thank you and let you know that all good advice received from this website paid off. I wrote to DVLA questionning their competance at obviously losing my completed V5 and told them that the 'secretive loop hole' they were using to fine innocent people was not worded as they obviously intended (making people chase up 4 weeks after the DVLA had not done their job of sending an acknowledgement) AND I disputing the debt collection agencies claims that that they had sent me many letters re this offence (as it was the first I had heard of it just recently).

 

They have today replied stating:

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the late licensing penalty requested from you for allegedly failing to relicence your vehicle as required.

 

The contents have been noted and under the circumstances, no further action will be taken on this case.

 

I specifically like the word "allegedly" in the above, prior to this letter you would think that I had committed the offence of the Century and I was definately guilty!!

 

I hope that I have not just pushed my luck by today writing to them again insisting that they ensure that my name and address has not entered a black list due to the "not very pleasant" and unecessary Credit Agencies involvement!

 

Thanks again. I hope that this encourages others to stand and fight.

[JimmySpangle]

Excellent. CAG 1, DVLA nil

[Sweeney Todd]

Philips Letter Template Number 4 arrived today.

 

I think that this could well be my favourite so far with lines such as the threats to put a charging order against my property, to put an attachment on my earnings or to make me bankrupt as an alternative to court judgment or tarnishing my credit rating which may cause me obtaining future credit!

 

So, in all it's glory, here is Philip's template letter number 4:

 

YOUR PHILIPS REFERENCE NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

OUTSTANDING AMOUNTS: £80.00

Security Code: 804

COURT WARNING - FINAL NOTICE

Regarding: Late Licensing Penalty on behalf of DVLA

Additional Information (if available)

DVLA Ref: xxxxxxxxxx

Date of Offence: xxxxxxxxxxx

Vehicle Reg: xxxxxxxxxx

Vehicle Make: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Vehicle Model: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

IMPORTANT

YOU SHOULD READ THIS NOTICE CAREFULLY COURT PROCEEDINGS MAY NOW COMMENCE

Despite previous correspondence to your premises it would appear that you have no intention of repaying the amounts which remain outstanding to the above named client

County Court Summons/Judgment (being made against your person) and/or:

1. Statutory Demand (against yourself)

2. Charging Order (against property you may own)

3. Attachment of Earnings/Benefit (against your income)

4. Bankruptcy petition

Court action is expensive and as a result of further action our clients will seek recovery of all costs which you may become liable for as a result. In addition your credit history may be tarnished which may cause/prevent you obtaining any future credit facilities.

Should you wish to prevent this course of action commencing you must pay £80 immediately by contacting us on 0844 800 4588 or by visiting www.philips.org.uk. Please mark all correspondence for the attention of 'Enforcement Department' to ensure action is suspended. Further payment options can be found overleaf.

NO FURTHER NOTICE WILL BE GIVEN

PHILIPS CALL CENTRE OPENING HOURS: 07:30 - 20:00 (Mon - Fri) 09:00 - 13:00 (Sat)

[hungrybear]

Why not have a read of the letter I sent the twonks

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/230624-dvla-fine-mess.html

[Sweeney Todd]

Nice letter, hungrybear.

 

I've tried corresponding with DVLA and informing them that I correctly advised them of change of ownership. They chose to ignore this.

 

I've told Philips that I dispute any charge and that the error is by DVLA and that I would like them to commence court action so that I can defend myself, or to drop the threatening letters. They too have chosen to ignore my letter and sent me their template letters which are amusingly referenced in numerical order, so that you can follow their process with admiration, as Security code 801, 802, 803 and 804.

 

I wait with baited breath for letter number 805.

 

In the meantime, I will continue to ignore them (as they and DVLA ignored the content of my letters) and await my day in court.

[hungrybear]

... at which point you walk in to court say 'section 7 interpretations act 1978 is quite clear, I don't need an acknowledgement letter' (pause, ...) then shout COSTS

 

The only word I can find that fits is muppets!

[rob840]

Hi guys, I had a response from DVLA which may be of interest..

 

Here is the actual letter I sent to DVLA;

 

-----

Re: FINAL NOTIFICATION: XXXX XXX

Your Ref: 123 XXXX XXX

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I write with reference to your letter / notice dated 9 October 2009 ( copy attached ).

Please take notice that I am no longer the owner or keeper of the vehicle referred to and ceased to be on 31/05/2009 following the sale of the vehicle via eBay online auction. The completed, appropriate section of the V5c was duly sent by post to DVLA on the same day.

I understand that the action of returning the V5c to the DVLA is the full extent of my legal obligations in the matter and therefore I have fully complied with the requirements of the law.

I would ask that you direct any further communications regarding the vehicle to the new owner / keeper, whose details are provided in the attached proof of sale.

Thank you.

Yours Sincerely

rob840

-----

 

I just received this in response;

 

-----

From: Continuous Registration Centre, Newcastle Enforcement Centre

1st Floor, Eagle Star House, Regent Farm Road, Gosforth,

Newcastle Upon Tyne. NE3 3QF.

Tel: 0191 213 5500 Ref: 123 XXXX XXX

 

Late Licensing Penalty: XXXX XXX

 

Dear rob840,

Thank you for your recent letter concerning the late licensing penalty imposed upon you for failing to relicense your vehicle as required(1).

 

The keeper details you have provided will be used to update our records and an acknowledgement letter should be sent to you within the next 4 weeks. If you do not receive this letter phone 0300 7906802.

 

Although you may no longer be the owner of this vehicle we did not receive notification that the vehicle had been sold. As the registered keeper of the vehicle you are legally responsible for licensing your vehicle and notifying that the vehicle is no longer in your possession(2). It is not a valid defence to claim that you used a motor trader or other third party to notify the Department of disposal.

 

On the information before us, you are still liable for the £80.00 penalty. Only payments received by 30/11/2009 are at the reduced rate of £40.00.

 

Please pay this penalty by cheque or postal orders mad payable to 'DVLA', writing the vehicle registration mark on the back. The payment together together with this letter should then be returned to the above address. Payments cannot be made by installments. If you wish to pay by debit / credit card please phone the above number.

 

should you need to contact us, please quote the registration mark of the vehicle.

Yours sincerely

 

(no signature)

 

Mrs P Woolley

Enforcement Manager.

 

(1) As stated in Section 7A of Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as amended)

(2) Contrary to Regulation 22 to 24 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.

-----

 

(1) - There is no section 7A of Vehicles Excise and Registration Act 1994 that I can find. Here is section 7;

-----

7 Issue of vehicle licences

 

(1) Every person applying for a vehicle licence shall—

(a) make such a declaration, and

(b) furnish such particulars,

(whether or not with respect to the vehicle for which the licence is to be taken out) as may be prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State.

(2) The declarations and particulars which may be so prescribed include, in relation to a person applying for a licence for a goods vehicle, a declaration as to, and particulars of, any of the matters specified in subsection (3) as to which the Secretary of State may require information with a view to an alteration in the basis on which vehicle excise duty is chargeable in respect of goods vehicles.

(3) The matters referred to in subsection (2) are—

(a) the construction of the vehicle,

(b) the vehicle’s plated gross weight or plated train weight (or, in Northern Ireland, relevant maximum weight or relevant maximum train weight) or, if the vehicle has no such weight, the vehicle’s weight when laden with the maximum load which it is constructed or adapted to carry, and

© the use to which the vehicle has been or is likely to be put.

(4) A vehicle licence—

(a) is issued for the vehicle specified in the application for the licence, and

(b) does not entitle the person to whom it is issued to use or keep any other vehicle.

(5) The Secretary of State is not required to issue a vehicle licence for which an application is made unless he is satisfied—

(a) that the licence applied for is the appropriate licence for the vehicle specified in the application, and

(b) in the case of an application for a licence for a vehicle purporting to be the first application for a licence for the vehicle, that a licence has not previously been issued for the vehicle.

(6) Regulations made by the Secretary of State may provide for—

(a) the issue of a new vehicle licence in the place of a licence which is or may be lost, stolen, destroyed or damaged, and

(b) the fee to be paid on the issue of a new licence.

(7) Where, following an application made in accordance with regulations under paragraph 13 of Schedule 1, a licence is issued for a goods vehicle at the rate of duty applicable to a weight specified in the application which is lower than its actual weight, that lower weight is to be shown on the licence.

-----

:? Even so, I cannot see anything in the above that relates to late licensing penalties imposed for failing to relicense vehicle as required - can you?

 

 

(2) - They obviously failed to read my letter properly, specifically;

"The completed, appropriate section of the V5c was duly sent by post to DVLA on the same day."

I believe this fulfills their statement in the received letter and that the reference item (2) to the following gobbledygook has been put there in an attempt to bamboozle me.

 

Here is Regulation 22 to 24 of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002;

Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader

22. - (1) This regulation applies where -

(a) there is a change in the keeper of a vehicle;

(b) a vehicle registration document has been issued in respect of the vehicle in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997; and

© the new keeper is not a vehicle trader.

(2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.

 

Change of keeper: obligations of registered keeper where vehicle registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper a vehicle trader

23. - (1) Subject to regulation 24, this regulation applies where -

(a) there is a change in the keeper of a vehicle;

(b) the person disposing of the vehicle is the registered keeper;

© a vehicle registration document has been issued in respect of the vehicle in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997; and

(d) the new keeper is a vehicle trader.

(2) The registered keeper shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State, on that part of the registration document which relates to the transfer to a vehicle trader, or otherwise in writing, of the following -

(a) the name and address of the vehicle trader;

(b) the date on which the vehicle was transferred to the vehicle trader;

© a declaration signed by the registered keeper that he transferred the vehicle to the vehicle trader on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b); and

(d) a declaration signed by the vehicle trader that the vehicle was transferred to him on the date specified in accordance with sub-paragraph (b).

(3) If the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, the registered keeper shall deliver to the vehicle trader those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under paragraph (2).

 

Change of keeper: obligations of vehicle traders where registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24 March 1997

24. - (1) This regulation applies where a vehicle trader becomes the keeper of a vehicle in respect of which a vehicle registration document has been issued in Great Britain on or after 24 March 1997.

(2) Where this regulation applies the vehicle trader shall, on or before the appropriate date and on that part of the registration document which relates to a change of keeper or otherwise in writing, notify the Secretary of State as to -

(a) the transfer of the vehicle to him; and

(b) the date on which he became the keeper of the vehicle.

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (2) the appropriate date is whichever is the earliest of -

(a) the day on which the vehicle trader first uses, or permits the use of, the vehicle on a public road otherwise than under a trade licence;

(b) the day on which he first keeps the vehicle on such a road;

© the day immediately following the expiration of the period of three months ("the three months period of grace") beginning with the day after the date on which the vehicle was last kept by a person who was not a vehicle trader.

(4) Where this regulation applies and the vehicle trader transfers the vehicle to another vehicle trader before the expiration of the three months period of grace, he shall give to the new keeper any part of the registration document in his possession.

(5) Where the vehicle trader transfers the vehicle to another person in a case not falling within paragraph (4), he shall -

(a) forthwith deliver to the Secretary of State, on that part of the registration document which relates to the change of keeper or otherwise in writing, the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was transferred to the new keeper;

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct; and

(b) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, deliver to the new keeper those parts of it not required to be sent to the Secretary of State under sub-paragraph (a).

-----

 

My apologies for the extremely long post but feel it is necessary to present all the relevant information together for ease of assessing the situation.

 

I welcome any advice / comments / help on how to proceed.

Many thanks.

[hungrybear]

rob,

 

your been WAY to nice about this, have a look at my letter here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/230624-dvla-fine-mess.html

 

and modify to you situation.

 

I quote their letter:

Although you may no longer be the owner of this vehicle we did not receive notification that the vehicle had been sold. As the registered keeper of the vehicle you are legally responsible for licensing your vehicle and notifying that the vehicle is no longer in your possession(2)

 

this is TOTAL ILLEGAL CRAP UNDER ENGLISH LAW.

 

- took them 3 days to back down and sod off after getting my letter:lol::lol:

 

They are just so 'we're the dvla so we're right' They are not above the law and they cannot even quote it properly.

 

I assume their first letter included:

 

if you do not have an acknowledgment letter you are still liable

 

-this statement is ILLEGAL and against English statute.

 

Read my letter, it's self explanitory and come back if you have any questions.

[rob840]

@hungrybear - thanks for your quick response.

 

Thats a seriously wicked letter you sent them !

Just out of interest, could you post their reply?

 

They must be raking it in from the majority of people who are frightened by the threats and cough up without question.

 

They are up there with the best of the [problem] artists !

 

I'm wondering, has anybody contacted BBCs Watchdog about this?

 

I am in the process in writing my own masterpiece with lots of inspiration from your 'fine mess' letter. I am just as angry and incited as you.

 

Will post it for comments as soon as its ready..

[JimmySpangle]

Once again, DVLA fail to understand the law and use idle threats to innocent members of the public.

 

I emphasise this again: Your ONLY legal duty is to send them the appropraite section of the V5c upon sale, which you did. That is the end of the matter.

 

I suggest this response:

 

Dear DVLA

 

Further to your letter of XXXX, it seems obvious that you do not read letters or understand the law.

 

I have absolutely no interest in your policies, thoughts, threats or what you had for breakfast last week. I don't want to be your friend, associate or confidant. I want nothing to do with you at all and the ONLY reason anyone ever contracts DVLA is either to notify them of a sale or to tell them they have got it wrong - again!

 

I invite you to prosecute me for the alleged offence. I very much look forward to this being decided by a magistrate. Upon winning my case I will be asking for costs, which you would have to pay. If you didn't pay this could result in bailiffs being sent into DVLA offices to sieze goods to be sold at auction. This could mean that you have no desk to lean on, no chair to shine your arse with and no job. That could mean you falling into arrears with your mortgage, which could mean you being made homeless and destitue. That could lead you to take unusual and irrational actions to support your family, which may include theft. That in itself could lead to imprisonment and then you are one bar of slippery soap away from a whole new way of life with Big Sally from Block 3.

 

Of course, as DVLA are basically a bunch of thieveing, lying and deceptive **** anyway, you will probably fit right in.

 

Load of love

rob840

 

That should do it.

 

ps..... you may want to edit and possibly miss some sections before actually sending, but the bit about court is best left in.

[hungrybear]

@hungrybear - thanks for your quick response.

 

Thats a seriously wicked letter you sent them !

Just out of interest, could you post their reply?

 

They must be raking it in from the majority of people who are frightened by the threats and cough up without question.

 

They are up there with the best of the [problem] artists !

 

I'm wondering, has anybody contacted BBCs Watchdog about this?

 

I am in the process in writing my own masterpiece with lots of inspiration from your 'fine mess' letter. I am just as angry and incited as you.

 

Will post it for comments as soon as its ready..

 

 

Rob, Their reply was (exact word for word off the letter):

 

Dear HungryBear,

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning the late licensing penalty requested from you for allegedly failing to relicense your vehicle as required.

 

Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience or distress this has caused. I have now instructed our Swansea office to update DVLA to show the vehicle exported from September 2008.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Mrs Enforcement Officer.

 

 

Then 4 days later I got an acknowledgement from Swansea.

 

Simplez

 

And yes I bet the lying gets are raking it in.

[littledotty27]

My husband has had simular problems,he sold a vehicle on ebay on 2nd May 2008,V5 sent to DVLA informing them of new keepers details etc.

Got acknowledgement letter in Oct 2008,5 months after he sold the vehicle.

 

Received letter from Philips in the Nov 2008 stating he had a fine of £80,£40 if it was paid before end of nov,as vehicle had not been taxed at beginning of june 2008.

 

He emailed them the acknowledgment letter & heard nothing ,until today,

demanding the £80 in full or it is being passed to the enforcement department & receive a ccj against him.

 

I saved the letter by scanning it,which I still have.

Any advice on what to do next?

[hungrybear]

My husband has had simular problems,he sold a vehicle on ebay on 2nd May 2008,V5 sent to DVLA informing them of new keepers details etc.

Got acknowledgement letter in Oct 2008,5 months after he sold the vehicle.

 

Received letter from Philips in the Nov 2008 stating he had a fine of £80,£40 if it was paid before end of nov,as vehicle had not been taxed at beginning of june 2008.

 

He emailed them the acknowledgment letter & heard nothing ,until today,

demanding the £80 in full or it is being passed to the enforcement department & receive a ccj against him.

 

I saved the letter by scanning it,which I still have.

Any advice on what to do next?

 

Two options - read and use my letter, edited to reflect your circumstances OR go to court say to the judge I sent the V5C in the prescribed manner in accordance with section 7 on the interpretations act 1978 on date xyz; exactly which piece of legislation says I need an acknowldegement letter at all, never mind within 4 week. the pause wait for judgement and shout COSTS:razz:

 

Basically according to the interpretations act if you sent what you should in the prescribed manner ie the right section of the V5C by royal mail then you have fully executed your statutory duty in the matter.

[wastedyears1981]

Hi all, new to the forum due to the lovely DVLA wanting to fund the fat cats xmas party courtesy of me and thousands of other people. I sold a motorbike to my brother back in april 2008. Didnt hear anything from them. No Tax reminders, no sorn reminders, zilch from them. 2 months ago, got a Late licencing letter from DVLA asking to pay the 40-80. Refused and told them i no longer had it, and now I get the lovely philips letter.

Having read the forum, I have noticed one major thing. We send our personal information (name & address, on a official government document (V5C), and said document goes missing after being posted. This is a huge breach of data protection. Why are they not safeguarding our information. Why is it lots and lots of peoples information is just going walkies, and they then have the cheek to ask us for some money after theyve lost our information. Muppets. Anyway thats my rant over. But heres the letter I have wrote to them, its a morph of a few letters i have seen on here. Please let me know, and I will post the reply from DVLA. Heres the letter:

 

I write with reference to your letter dated 2nd December 2009. (copy attached).

Firstly, you have again failed to send the letter to the correct address. Please update your details with the address I notified you of in the letter dated 26th October 2009.

I refute the allegation that DVLA are making, namely that the department were not notified that I was no longer the keeper of the vehicle.

I completed all necessary sections and posted the documents to the correct address. I posted the V5C in April 2008, unfortunately I do not know the exact date as it was stated on the documentation that I sent which appears you have lost.

The postal service using section 10 of the V5C is the only method of notification of change of keeper that DVLA recognise. And I refer you to the Interpretations Act 1978 Section 7 if your require clarification on this.

There is no requirement in law for me to have received an acknowledgment from DVLA for the notice of new keeper to be legally correct. Neither is there a requirement in law for me to make enquiries after 4 weeks for an acknowledgment from the DVLA.

In view of this, I have fulfilled my legal obligation to notify you regarding the change of keeper. I will not be paying the £80 penalty. More importantly, I expect a thorough investigation into this matter, as personal information (namely the V5C document) has been misplaced by you and poses a security risk to myself. This is contrary to the Data Protection Act 1998 Schedule 1 Part 1 (7).

To Philips Collection Services Ltd, please liaise with the relevant department within the DVLA.

 

Yours sincerely

Edited December 6, 2009 by wastedyears1981

[hungrybear]

Hi all, new to the forum due to the lovely DVLA wanting to fund the fat cats xmas party courtesy of me and thousands of other people. I sold a motorbike to my brother back in april 2008. Didnt hear anything from them. No Tax reminders, no sorn reminders, zilch from them. 2 months ago, got a Late licencing letter from DVLA asking to pay the 40-80. Refused and told them i no longer had it, and now I get the lovely philips letter.

Having read the forum, I have noticed one major thing. We send our personal information (name & address, on a official government document (V5C), and said document goes missing after being posted. This is a huge breach of data protection. Why are they not safeguarding our information. Why is it lots and lots of peoples information is just going walkies, and they then have the cheek to ask us for some money after theyve lost our information. Muppets. Anyway thats my rant over. But heres the letter I have wrote to them, its a morph of a few letters i have seen on here. Please let me know, and I will post the reply from DVLA. Heres the letter:

I write with reference to your letter dated 2nd December 2009. (copy attached).

Firstly, you have again failed to send the letter to the correct address. Please update your details with the address I notified you of in the letter dated 26th October 2009.

 

I refute the allegation that DVLA are making, namely that the department were not notified that I was no longer the keeper of the vehicle.

 

I completed all necessary sections and posted the documents to the correct address. I posted the V5C in April 2008, unfortunately I do not know the exact date as it was stated on the documentation that I sent which appears you have lost.The postal service using section 10 of the V5C is the only method of notification of change of keeper that DVLA recognise. And I refer you to the Interpretations Act 1978 Section 7 if your require clarification on this.

There is no requirement in law for me to have received an acknowledgment from DVLA for the notice of new keeper to be legally correct. Neither is there a requirement in law for me to make enquiries after 4 weeks for an acknowledgment from the DVLA.

 

In view of this, I have fulfilled my legal obligation to notify you regarding the change of keeper. I will not be paying the £80 penalty. More importantly, I expect a thorough investigation into this matter, as personal information (namely the V5C document) has been misplaced by you and poses a security risk to myself. This is contrary to the Data Protection Act 1998 Schedule 1 Part 1 (7).

 

Kindly note that it is for DVLA to provide me with definitive legally enforceable proof that there is a matter to discuss. Any replies which rely on a ‘you must pay because we say so’ basis will not be acknowledged. I require definitive legal proof of an offence backed up by relevant statutory extracts and case law precedents as necessary. I also remind you that it is not lawful for you to pass this matter to a third party, such as a debt collector, whilst it is in dispute.

Finally, and for the avoidance of doubt, you should be aware that any attempt at legal action in this matter will be vigorously defended. It is my contention that a statement by under oath in a court of law, together with the provisions of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 constitute a absolute defence in this matter.

 

I trust my position in this matter is now clear.

To Philips Collection Services Ltd, please liaise with the relevant department within the DVLA.

Yours sincerely,

 

Good letter, minor suggestion. Go see 'em off

 

suggestions taken from my letter here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/230624-dvla-fine-mess.html#post2555112