Sub Prime Mortgages Call For Evidence Before The Treasury Select Committee

[enoughisenough]

Think we need a new thread on the FOS and mortgage charges.!

[rocket1]

Think we need a new thread on the FOS and mortgage charges.!

 

 

What might be a really good idea is to collect descriptions of repossessions and evictions as a demonstration to be used in campaigning to MPs and elsewhere.

 

What I mean is this:

 

If a person was to read a description of how a sub-prime mortgage was sold, how the borrower fell into arrears through no fault of their own (unemployment illness etc) and then how brutally and dishonestly the mortgage lender treated that borrower, possibly leading to eviction and the totally devastating effects all this had on the borrower and family, then, the reader would likely to have considerable sympathy with the borrower and considerable dislike for the villains - the mortgage lenders.

 

The reader would also gain some understanding of just how the mortgage industry became increasingly dishonest and rapacious and how it thinks nothing of destroying lives, families, jobs at a huge cost to the rest of the country not directly involved.

 

An ever growing collection of such stories in one place would clearly show Parliament, the press and the Country that the financial industry has been fraudulent and simply been ripping everyone off.

 

At present there may be growing awareness in the country that the financial industry is bad, but there is no focus in the general public's mind about the realities of repossession etc. Only those people directly involved in repossession have any idea just how evil lenders have been and how lenders have effectively stolen house owners equity on an epic scale.

 

Ideally these stories would be written by someone with the expertise of Mr Charles Dickens to tug at the emotions of readers. But as that is impossible, because Charles Dickens isn’t around to do the job and if he was there would be too many such stories to deal with anyway, all these stories must be written up by the victims of the lenders.

 

If these victims are provided with tight guidelines of what to write and to avoid all the boring details which would make it unreadable and uninteresting as well as incomprehensible, then even indifferent writers would spell out a tale that would be instantly understandable and well able to describe the awfulness of how the lenders greed ruins people’s lives and dump a breathtakingly enormous social cost on the rest of the nation.

 

What do you all think of the idea ?

 

If victims of financial scams were willing to contribute their stories in hopefully very large numbers it could be organised under the headings of the names of all the differently named lenders.

 

So, under the heading SPML, there might be hundreds of SPMLs mortgage horror stories thereby showing a clear pattern of institutionalised theft.

 

A thoughtful contributor might also add other information about that lender; such as spml being owned by Lehmans, who went bust because they were basically a bunch of thieves, and thus sparked off what became a World wide financial crisis ruining millions etc !

 

There might be all sorts of other information which might accrue under the thread of a particular lender. Perhaps things like such and such a director of a particular lender had a previous criminal conviction for fraud etc.

 

What about it folks ? Could this be a useful thing to organise ? It might just produce spectacular results !

[enoughisenough]

Hi Rocket1

 

I think this is an excellent idea. The main problem is that the perception holds very fast that the borrower has been delinquent. You still hear it day in day out that people took on mortgages they couldn't afford or that if people fall into arrears it's their own fault.

 

We need something that challenges that perception, in fact something that fundamentally breaks it down. Maybe someone has some sort of idea about how to get this going. The BBC programme 'Freefall' did this very well. I would post a link but the programme is no longer available. (Shame on the beeb)

 

The TSC must start to get a grip on what has really been happening. I think some of the contributions to the TSC are beginning to do just that.

[rocket1]

We all know here that it is pretty much mostly the lenders who are delinquent. This is entirely borne out by my own many years of dealing with them.

 

That is why if the victims are writing their own stories it will do exactly as you say by challenging the perception borrowers are delinquent.

 

The whole point of my idea is to do exactly as you say.

 

I had thought of a dedicated website - simply a public blogging platform where anyone could post their very own personal story (anonymising and changing their names if so wishing ) detailing the emotional issues alongside the facts, starting from brokers persuading them to take on a mortgage. But it could be started here on CAG.

 

What did the broker say ? Did the borrower have doubts. Was the borrower persuaded against their better judgement?

 

Did the broker start off by hooking the borrower with a promise of what looked like a really attractive mortgage at an interest rate little different from a high street lender, then mysteriously announce that deal was now unavailable long after the borrower was completely committed to the idea of a mortgage.

 

Regrettably the only deal the broker could now offer the borrower was vastly less attractive with a much higher interest rate and more onerous conditions ? Sounds familiar ?

 

Did the broker say the borrower could, and was even expected to, easily replace this unattractive mortgage after the introductory low interest period expired. Did the broker fail to say that could easily become impossible for a number of reasons, thereby wrecking the borrower’s whole life ?

 

No ? Then looking back with the magic of hindsight, a borrower might think that was the beginning of the confidence trick and that the broker, being in the pay of the lender, might really have committed the first stage of what is a gigantic fraud orchestrated by the lenders themselves.

 

Victims making a post would see from previous examples just how to write and a simple ‘template’ with advice on points to cover and to concentrate on the emotional issues and effects would be there to guide posters.

 

Some posters would be better than others. But I think it would work.

 

It is certainly worth a try.

 

Here is a terribly brief imaginary format of a very typical story:

 

How I Was Systematically Conned out of £800 000 Home Equity by Dishonest Mortgage Lenders

- Leaving me homeless and destitute

My wife ran off with another man and divorced me. I was left looking after three kids from 3 years o 15 years old.

 

I was emotionally wrecked by all this - obviously !

 

Because my ex-wife was forcing me to pay her a divorce settIement of thousands of pounds I was forced to change my mortgage and borrow more money just to be able to stay in the family home and give the kids a bit of stability.

 

Anyway, I couldn’t have coped with moving under the prevailing circumstances; I just had too much to cope with as it was.

 

I was in despair because I thought I couldn’t get another mortgage because I was now unemployed as I had to look after the kids full time and I had lost my high powered, well paid job anyway because I had been traumatised by my ex-wife’s destructive behaviour.

 

But a mortgage broker contacted me saying of course I could get a mortgage - even if I didn’t have a job.

 

I could ‘self certify’ my income without ever having to prove that I actually had an income at all !

 

End of part one as I have to dash to a dental appointment.

 

Part two later !

[Dougal16T]

Morning One and all

 

I'm all for debate and I sympathise with the argument that essentially the FOS are biased.

 

No-one should place all their eggs in one basket. However some caggers have had some success using the ombudsman and if you can get an ombudsman ruling that the the charges should be refunded and they shouldn't apply any more charges this has good swinging power should they decide to try for a possession order. Hell knows anything from the FOS that says they shouldn't be applying the charges might even keep them out of court. The long game is important - at all costs keep the roof over your head.

 

Evening all,

I take the point, and I do agree that the more 'ammo' that one has the better, even if it is not quite the 'nuclear weapon' we all hope it will be!!

 

As always best wishes to all

 

Dougal

[enoughisenough]

We all know what the nuclear option is and in this case it isn't mutually assured destruction.

 

It should be noted that I regard the FOS, the Oft and the FSA with particular contempt. They ARE next to useless.

[midge61]

Just to let you know that despite my complaint being settled by the FOS and all arrears now having been paid off and crapstone having repaid their charges the barstewards wrote to me yesterday to say my account is in arrears and to contact them immediately!

 

I am of on my hols in a few hours so have sent them a prove it letter with copies of the settlement agreement etc so will have to wait a couple of weeks to see what their reply is. If they still insist that there are arrears will refer back to the adjudicator that dealt with it but other than that not sure what to do.

[enoughisenough]

Hi midge61

 

There's not a lot you can do at this stage. We can't even take a holiday this year, because we dare not risk what might land on our doorstep. This is particularly galling for the kids and I will make them pay for this as well.

 

Contact the adjudicator via email if you can or ring them up and demand they put Capstone on notice that they cannot add any other charges. If anyone is up for a real fight you can get the names of all five directors from the FSA web site and write to them and warn them of the fraud act and the penalties for a breach, but you probably don't have the time for this.

 

Enjoy your hols!

[newsmanner]

Hi enoughisenough

 

LIke the idea of writing to the select committee, I will try and join in and post.

 

Unfortunately I am going to be evicted on the 7th August 2009, after swift;s deception and b****g the court, all the horror stories on the site i have been through, and more.

 

I'm not giving up though even if they get the house as HMG will find themselves before the european court and european court of human right's.

 

I note your comment about troll's and am well aware of these people and i have come across them in the past.

 

I'M afraid i am a bit new to forum's and due to harrassesment and continual attempts at breaking into my property (the last to obtain court documents) and dubious bout saying to much, just one thing has anyone been charged a valuation fee before swift have the property. I have.

 

This is the dirty way in which swift work as we well as charging extortinate fees after they have a possession warrant and not before.

 

The word fraud works here.

 

If anyone wants to send a P.M please feel free would like some advice on how to post documents on the forum as i have no idea, I am computer literate but get frustrated quite a lot a the moment.

 

Keep on fighting please it is important.

 

newsmanner

[enoughisenough]

Hi newsmanner

 

The deadline for submissions was 1st July, extended to the 8th of July. They have already published the submissions and their were fifteen of them. There's a lot of dense stuff from the Council of Mortgage Lender's and the like but also good submissions from one or two individuals and a good submission from Shelter.

 

You can read the submissions here.

 

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/upload/mortgagearrearswebfile2.pdf

 

Swift are absolute ****. See if you can write to the court and get the possession stopped. I would stay on narrow legal lines, that the arrears are falsely alleged as they are constituted of unlawful charges and arrears interest on unlawful charges. Also did the court examine the terms and conditions of the mortgage. They MUST do this in order for any possession order to be lawful.

 

here's the authority: If the court's don't examine the terms and conditions of the contract they must start all over again.

 

Murciano Quintero (Environment and consumers) [2000] EUECJ C-240/98 (27 June 2000)

 

Good Luck!

 

if you are considering invoking the ECJ Read this thread first.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/209359-eu-law-consumer-protections.html

[iconoclash]

Hi enoughisenough

 

LIke the idea of writing to the select committee, I will try and join in and post.

 

Unfortunately I am going to be evicted on the 7th August 2009, after swift;s deception and b****g the court, all the horror stories on the site i have been through, and more.

 

I'm not giving up though even if they get the house as HMG will find themselves before the european court and european court of human right's.

 

I note your comment about troll's and am well aware of these people and i have come across them in the past.

 

I'M afraid i am a bit new to forum's and due to harrassesment and continual attempts at breaking into my property (the last to obtain court documents) and dubious bout saying to much, just one thing has anyone been charged a valuation fee before swift have the property. I have.

 

This is the dirty way in which swift work as we well as charging extortinate fees after they have a possession warrant and not before.

 

The word fraud works here.

 

If anyone wants to send a P.M please feel free would like some advice on how to post documents on the forum as i have no idea, I am computer literate but get frustrated quite a lot a the moment.

 

Keep on fighting please it is important.

 

newsmanner

Hi - this might be relevant?

A new protocol

The forceful approach of some lenders belies their membership of the Council of Mortgage Lenders, whose advice remains that possession should be a last resort.

This official CML line was extended in the Mortgage Arrears Protocol (see www.civiljusticecouncil.gov.uk), which was approved and is effective from 19 November 2008. Even prior thereto, and for existing cases, it cannot be ignored. Paragraph 4 of the Practice Direction Protocols provides that in non-approved protocol cases, the court will expect parties, in accordance with the overriding objective, to act reasonably in exchanging relevant information and generally in trying to avoid starting proceedings. A published draft protocol helps identify what is reasonable behaviour.

The protocol addresses pre-action conduct. This includes taking reasonable steps to discuss with the borrower the cause of the arrears; considering the borrower’s financial situation, including available benefits; and considering extending the term of the mortgage and a reasonable change to payment dates (so they fall after the monthly salary has come in). All these matters apply equally after issue. The protocol also provides that where borrowers can demonstrate they have taken all reasonable steps to market the property in accordance with professional advice as to price, proceedings should not be started if borrowers agree to keep lenders advised as to the sale progress. The protocol requires lenders to postpone court proceedings, so long as borrowers maintain current instalments and pay a reasonable amount regularly towards the arrears.

Advocates with uncompromising instructions from mortgage lender clients may be invited to consider their position with their client in the light of the CML advice and protocol, with the attendant adjournment. In cases of clear unreasonableness, a lender may not be allowed to add costs to the security (Gomba Holdings (UK) Ltd v Minories Finance Ltd (No 2) [1992] 4 All ER 588, CA).

District Judge Peter Jolly sits at Portsmouth Combined Court: Law Society Gazette January 2009

[Trudy B]

At last, some progress in the right direction

 

UK Parliament - tc0809pn080809

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmtreasy/766/766.pdf

 

 

T

[enoughisenough]

Hi Trudy

 

This is excellent. A very good find and very positive. The committee are scathing about the FSA.

 

Just reading the second link now...

 

Well done you.

 

Keep the faith. EiE.

[enoughisenough]

And for those who don't like wading through 260 page reports on a Saturday morning there's this!

 

BBC NEWS | Business | MPs attack mortgage arrears fees