Sub Prime Mortgages Call For Evidence Before The Treasury Select Committee

[enoughisenough]

Could a mod Or the site management team please think of getting this thread out to as many sub prime mortgage posters as possible? We are talking people's houses and families here.

[rocket1]

To get an idea of the way to write any submissions, I would suggest everyone reads CB's evidence at least a couple of times.

 

Who is CB ? and where do we find the submission example ?

 

Perhaps it might be a good idea to try and collect all the TSC submissions in one place so we can all have a look at them ourselves. This will definitely help anyone trying to write their own submission.

[sweetjane]

Can anyone advise please? I'm helping my sister try and sort out financial hardship. She has 2 sub prime mortgages both on SPOs. Can I submit on her behalf or does it have to be in her name? Do we have to make 2 submissions i.e. one for each lender?

Ta very much. Good luck all.

[enoughisenough]

CB is Carmel Butler. Ms Butler made an excellent 28 page submission to the tsc in February focusing on the ensuing logic of securitisation is consumer detriment. Securitisation esentially closes off the possibility that there can be any mutual benefit in the contractual relationship which I think in tern provides a good basis for jcs argument on this thread that something so significant has imposed itself in the contractual relationship that the consumer did not know of and therefore could not consent to. Since this is now spilling out it increases the repo roadshows momentum. A seige grab it while you can mentality. CB 's submission can be found on page one of the Carmel butler house of commons thread.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to post these on open unless that is they are subject to the heavy black pen. Personal details on open are a no no!

[enoughisenough]

It should also be remembered that cb s submission is very long, much longer than the word limit we have here! Also do not feel youare bound to submit highly technical legal points. Others will be doing that in any case. Read cb by all means. Just don't think that yours needs to be like this. Great if you can. Don't worry if you can't. But please please please if they have shafted you in any way big or small let the tsc know about this

 

keep the faith. EiE

[enoughisenough]

Hi sweetjane

 

probably one submission. I don't see why you can't draft it and your sister puts her name to it as long as you clearly state that you have drafted it for her under her express permission.

 

Good luck.

[rocket1]

Thanks for telling me about Carmel Butler. I will look at it asap.

 

BUT, may I take issue with you on the idea of 'posting on open' as you put it. Obviously there may be certain personal details which people will not want exposed to public scrutiny. But the TSC submissions will become public anyway, so anyone writing their submission would have to write it from the perspective of being aware it will become public anyway.

 

Anyway, it is easy enough to post any TSC or similar 'story' and simply delete any sensitive personal information. the story will still be there as a helpful bit of information to others.

 

While care does have to be taken with disclosing personal information, in reality people become too obsessed about it. It is usually harmless and only feels bad/potentially embarrassing to the writer. no one else cares a hoot.

 

Anyway as we all use acronyms here there isn't much identifying likely to take place, is there ?

 

(anyway must have been the first word I learnt as a toddler !)

[enoughisenough]

Hi Rocket

 

no worries. I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet. But of course people should exercise caution. Not all of them will be published and trolls trawl this site on a regular basis. They are powerful well resourced and will want to do us over any chance they get. An abundance of caution is therefore always advised.

[rocket1]

Thanks.

 

I'm sorry to be boring, but I just don't understand this 'Troll' thing. Can you explain. I know a Troll is someone who disrupts threads, but surely that is rare and is just the same sort of jerk that writes a computer virus or sprays graffiti ? and therefore just an irritation and not a real threat. I need to see examples of trolls at work to understand what goes on. Can you point some out to me ?

 

I don't understand how they would 'do us over' etc.

[enoughisenough]

Hi lets just keep this thread on message. It's a big week for all. I'll pm later and try to spell out what I see as the very serious problems that some of these imposters try to wreak.

 

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

In respect of the above I did indeed PM rocket1 on a number of issues. What I wrote about trolls can go on open. Here it is.

 

Trolls. Believe me they are more than just an irritating nuisance. They aim to sabotage. I could not give a Holy F*** if they want to scan the airwaves of this particular site. Let them. Then they will know they are not dealing with trailer trash sub prime mortgage garbage. They are dealing with people who are probably a great deal more educated than they are. The point about trolls is as follows:

 

1. They masquerade as innocent victims of this stuff in order to divert our attention from helping the real victims. I know I have been trolled on a number of occasions by sob stories via pm only for these people to disappear entirely after one or at most 2 posts, never to return. If it happened once yes, but a dozen or more no, and certainly not within a short period, with different variations of the same story. What an effing waste of my time.

 

2. The clever troll is usually a higher level functionary of the bast*rds we are dealing with. Asking sophisticated points of law (not so sophisticated actually) to see where we might be preparing our lines of defence in the imminent proceedings. Insidious **** that they are want a peek preview of our line of argument before the court, and they don't even bother with anything more than a last minute presentation of a photocopied claim. The courts need to start wising up to this bull.

 

3. There is also the kind enquiry type of troll. Who are you with, when did you take it out, how much for, are you based in manchester etc. This boll*cks is usually accompanied by a whole confessional, designed to make you think that Trevor or Tracey is your compatriot in arms. They are not. It is designed to get you to spill your guts so that they can start to be more aggressive towards the ones they've identified as the ringleaders.

 

4.The abusive pm tactic. This is designed to elicit an emotive response, throw you off your virtuous course and generally give you emotional fatigue.

 

This is the stuff trolls get up to. If you think they harmless that's your prerogative. I think that they are poisonous saboteurs, determined to do a hatchet job on anyone threatening their 'right' to do whatever the f**k they want with your mortgage, your house, your family and your future.

 

Graf artists I wish. They are disgusting, disruptive malicious ****, acting for the enemy. That's why I have an animus against them.

Edited June 28, 2009 by enoughisenough
Added diatribe against disgusting trolls

[magiciansgirl]

Will be making a submission.

 

Kind regards, MG

[enoughisenough]

Fantastic stuff.

 

Glad to have you on board mg. Good luck with your submission.

 

EiE.

[enoughisenough]

This is beginning to acquire some momentum. Others have posted elsewhere that they are submitting. If you have exchanged anything opinions information or advice with other caggers experiencing sub prime meltdown please post a link to this thread. The more the better. We have to shout this from the rooftops otherwise they'll pick us off one by one.

[magiciansgirl]

Sorry to be dim, but how do I post a link?

 

MG

[enoughisenough]

Hi mg go to page one of the thread and copy the URL from the browser bar. Then paste this in the message.

 

Cheers.

[rocket1]

Enough is Enough

 

I will also definitely be posting a submission.

 

Can I also ask you /and or anyone else for some help in relation to this.

 

I am trying to find out if I might be able to bring an action against the broker/and lender of my last mortgage as I am certain it was criminally mis sold. I wish to do this primarily to expose the industry as my case must be very typical.

 

I obviously need to speak to a lawyer, but I have no current access at all to a lawyer at present. ( no money etc) But I need to get some basic information Before I do anything at all because although I think I have a really good case which, if proved will blow the industry apart, I just need that really simple, basic information which will tell me that I can then go into the detail with an actual lawyer.

 

I have tried speaking to the FSA and Ombudsman, both staffed by eighteen year old call centre people unable to be of any use at all. Both passed me onto to Consumer Direct who say they can't tell me anything about financial/property issues as they are utterly different from consumer goods/products. (not so, really but you can't argue with them)

 

I have outlined my mis selling issue on the link below. My question is simply this; Is what I have outlined a description of mis selling. If so, I will go for it, and I think I can prove it.

 

The essence of my case is as follows:

 

Was a mortgage mis-sold by a broker if, when the broker arranged it and introduced it to the lender, the broker was expressly told by the mortgage applicant (me) that I was in receipt of state benefits of about £100 per week as a single parent and that was the only income I currently had at the time of taking out the mortgage for £171 000 !!! on the ex council house I had bought for only £161 000 four years previously.

 

And that I was expressly re-mortgaging because I was already going through a re-possession and the purpose of the re-mortgage was to borrow extra funds to avoid repossession and eviction and to have spare funds to make future mortgage payments on the new mortgage until such time as I became employed.

 

It is highly relevant to everything on these threads and particularly as a submission to the TSC as it shows exactly how the industry connives to collude with each other in producing the subprime market pool of borrowers with mortgage contracts often of a completely criminal nature mostly based on brokers telling borrowers to lie about things like income on their mortgage applications.

 

There is a 'duty of care' which makes the brokers and lenders liable, but no one seems to bring actions about it.

 

I do know absolutely, that if I could prove every part of my mortgage history with the several lenders over ten years it would clearly show a completely fraudulent industry at work. Unfortunately I cannot prove it all, but at least I can write about it and invite the thieves to sue me for libel, which is what I would like to do in addition to bringing an action for this specific mis selling.

 

This is the link to my brief description of why I think there is a case for mis selling. It is post 868 on the spml london mortgage company thread below:

 

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgages-secured-loans/170607-spml-london-mortgage-company-44.html

Edited June 25, 2009 by rocket1

[magiciansgirl]

Just to say my submission is done.

 

Kind regards, MG

[enoughisenough]

Excellent news mg. Good on you.

[subprimevictim]

Hi Rocket1,

I was interested in your post as I have had the same experience. My broker tripled mine and my wife's income on the application form and tampered with a letter from my employer to conceal my true income.(I have the proof). Like you, I tried to find a solicitor to take on this fraud case, but soon discovered that not one solicitor was willing to take it on. (They are all too scared). I then went to the FOS and the FSA, who also turned a blind eye. The FSA are being paid by these crooks, after all! Eventually I settled for "compensation" from the broker in the form of a refund of the broker fee. It was that or nothing. I agree with you that we should receive substantial compensation for this fraudulent activity and that these companies should be closed down. I'm afraid you are very unlikely to find a lawyer willing to help you. (If you do find one, please let me know!) I am going to inform BBC Watchdog and every national newspaper to try to get justice. The brokers, lenders and SPVs are all in league with one another in the conspiracy and it has to stop. I am now going to write some more on my submission to the Treasury. The only problem is trying to keep within 3000 words!

Best of luck.

Subprimevictim.

[enoughisenough]

Remember to number your paragraphs! Good luck

[littledotty27]

The only problem is trying to keep within 3000 words!

 

I know the feeling on that, I could of wrote a hell of alot more!!!

 

Mines submitted.

[enoughisenough]

Excellent work people. Keep up the pressure. It is vital now in the last few days to let anyone else you can think of join the club and get their submissions in.

 

Cheers keep the faith. EiE.

[enoughisenough]

Hi mg is your submission in or just done? If it's done but not in go back through carefully to make sure you've said wHat you want to say. If it's already submitted the inquiry will read it but may or may not publish it. Thanks all!

 

Keep the faith. EiE

Tell your fellow posters to tell their fellow posters!

[Crapstone]

My submission is in.

 

It wasn't too difficult but I had to resist the urge to waffle. Putting down 6 years of hell into 3000 words can be testing.

 

I'm very interested in the brokers' involvements My broker fabricated employment status, insurance and other terms. This was questioned from the outset and we requested all the submissions made by the broker but they are 'lost'.

 

The broker signed us up for 'block insurance' which we didn't want or need . Considering he was paid to oversee all aspects of the mortgage, and get us onto a better rate given time, when called he said he wanted nothing more to do with it. He denied everything and his attitude was vile and abusive.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I should never have trusted them. Leaving at 3.am should have rang alarm bells and with a sick child in the house.

 

The broker I used was Berwood Park Associates and Philip Gill.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Crapstone

[Crapstone]

I figure that we are naming SPML and their cowboy outfit then why not name the brokers? If mine wants to contact me they know where I am. I have nothing to lose and my statements are true.