AK Claimform - MBNA card 'debt'

[Coactum]

Not sure if there is but would this help?

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I refer to your letter of _____ and write to repudiate your claim that I am indebted to you to the sum of £_____

 

I acknowledge and accept that I have been a customer of your bank but to date you have failed to facilitate my request to have site of a valid Consumer Credit Agreement between us. This was first requested on ____ and follow-up requests were made on____ all of which have been ignored.

 

In the absence of a valid contract I am unable to ascertain what my obligations are and in light of my recently changed circumstances I need to analyse closely all outgoing sums and as it would appear that I have no obligation to you I am suspending payment forthwith.

 

That was just off the top of my head so you will no doubt want to embelish it to suit your needs

[MeeBroke]

Not sure if there is but would this help?

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I refer to your letter of _____ and write to repudiate your claim that I am indebted to you to the sum of £_____

 

I acknowledge and accept that I have been a customer of your bank but to date you have failed to facilitate my request to have site of a valid Consumer Credit Agreement between us. This was first requested on ____ and follow-up requests were made on____ all of which have been ignored.

 

In the absence of a valid contract I am unable to ascertain what my obligations are and in light of my recently changed circumstances I need to analyse closely all outgoing sums and as it would appear that I have no obligation to you I am suspending payment forthwith.

 

That was just off the top of my head so you will no doubt want to embelish it to suit your needs

 

 

Thanks for that but I think it'd need to go much further as I have sent them 5 letters, including the original request, notice of dispute and reminders. I have also responded directly to anyone who wrote to me for eg Martin Supple. I have seperately written to Optima Legal when I got a letter from them, and included copies of my letters to MBNA.

[Coactum]

It was just an outline MeeBroke, you can of course alter to suit but my suggestion as to the bottom line remains; until they can satisfy your request the account is in dispute and no further payments will be made by you.

[George1958]

Hi Meebroke

Guess what? I'm also in dispute with MBNA!!

I've followed the proper procedure requesting my CCA and SAR, and just the exact same as you Heard nothing, not a peep, naff all!!

I sent them a letter saying they had failed to comply with the provisions and requirements of The Consumer Credit Act and The Data Protection Act. Still heard nowt!!

That was followed up with a reminder that they have failed to comply. Not a squeak!!!

So now I've complained to the Financial Ombudsman Service, I'm just going to sit back and see what happens.

Then I will contact the local Trading Standards, then the FSA, then my MP.

Don't know if that helped or not, but I'd thought Id let you know there are others in the same boat.

Regards

G

[toxicdebt]

Hi Meebroke

Guess what? I'm also in dispute with MBNA!!

I've followed the proper procedure requesting my CCA and SAR, and just the exact same as you Heard nothing, not a peep, naff all!!

I sent them a letter saying they had failed to comply with the provisions and requirements of The Consumer Credit Act and The Data Protection Act. Still heard nowt!!

That was followed up with a reminder that they have failed to comply. Not a squeak!!!

So now I've complained to the Financial Ombudsman Service, I'm just going to sit back and see what happens.

Then I will contact the local Trading Standards, then the FSA, then my MP.

Don't know if that helped or not, but I'd thought Id let you know there are others in the same boat.

Regards

G

Are you still paying them?

[George1958]

Are you still paying them?

 

Toxicdebt

I'm in a sense paying them, CCCS have set up a Debt Management Plan for me, and I pay an amount each month to CCCS and they in turn pay it to the creditor. Almost like an administrator for a company.

I know it's in MBNA's best interest to do or say nothing as they are still getting paid, not as much as they want, but still getting paid none the less.

However it is in my best interest to see what they have in way of statutory documentation for my alleged debt with them.

That is why I am now complaining to authorities like FOS etc.

I am not trying to wriggle out of repaying the money I have spent, but I'm less than happy about all the charges that were applied making up more that a third of the alleged debt.

Stopping payments will be one way to force the issue, however I really don't want to pee off CCCS as they had been extremely helpful and considerate in my darkest hours/days.

Regards

G

[vint1954]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

[MeeBroke]

Right, finally got two letters from MBNA in one day!

 

Sadly neither refer to ANY of my letters. Both are just notifications of arrears etc. The letters threaten both CCJ and Charging Order. For the first time however, one hints at the possibility of accepting a reduced settlement. So, the chink in their armor begins to appear?

 

Still no CCA or any acknowledgment of any of my letters. It's been 5 months.

[MeeBroke]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxx

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from 27/03/09 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Thank you for that. I have already sent this letter however, via Special Delivery, several months ago. It is one of 5 I have sent.

[MeeBroke]

Ok, I've just this moment had a postcard put through my door. It looks like a photograph on the front and features a football team making a 'wall' whilst someone takes a free kick at them.

 

On the back it states "I confirm I will be calling you in the week commencing 21st.

 

If inconvenient please call 01244 673093. Extn:_____ (blank)"

 

 

 

What is this? The only way I know it's from MBNA is that there is some tiny print on the back of the card (had to put my glasses to read it) that has MBNA's address.

[exchange]

We've all had these. It just means they intend telephoning you during that week. I'm sure they phone you every week anyway!

[MeeBroke]

We've all had these. It just means they intend telephoning you during that week. I'm sure they phone you every week anyway!

 

Since I sent the phone harassment letters (2 to MBNA and 1 each to Aegis and Global Vantage) I've barely heard from them at all- in months.

 

This card does not say what month, gives no name as to who hand wrote it and leaves the extension blank. Total joke.

[Coactum]

Good letter, and call me a cynic if you like, but somehow I don't think this will gain a response. Mind you it will stand you in good stead if you ever end up in court.

[Dotty50]

Hi MeeBroke,

 

They haven't sent me a postcard, feel left out now!

 

Did get something described as a copy of my CCA from Virgin yesterday, will scan and post up on my thread on monday.

[citizenB]

Right, finally got two letters from MBNA in one day!

 

Sadly neither refer to ANY of my letters. Both are just notifications of arrears etc. The letters threaten both CCJ and Charging Order. For the first time however, one hints at the possibility of accepting a reduced settlement. So, the chink in their armor begins to appear?

 

Still no CCA or any acknowledgment of any of my letters. It's been 5 months.

 

YOu could always send them a copy of the email you received in an earlier post:) Of course, if the hard copy arrives then it would be even better to send a copy of that:-)

[MeeBroke]

YOu could always send them a copy of the email you received in an earlier post:) Of course, if the hard copy arrives then it would be even better to send a copy of that:-)

 

You mean the email from Trading Standards?

[vint1954]

This is just the standard forum template by and large.

 

They may well ignore it and most probably will, however the paperwork needs to be in place. Leaving things in limbo can seem like the easiest way out, but communications haver to be dealt with. You should always have the last letter in the file.

 

You need to remain clear regarding the proceedure.

 

1. Request CCA

 

2. Put account into dispute if they do not respond.

 

3. Respond to all communications stating that the account remains in dispute until they comply with CCA request.

 

You cannot realy go beyond that if they refuse to play ball, unless you want to take them to court.

[MeeBroke]

This is just the standard forum template by and large.

 

They may well ignore it and most probably will, however the paperwork needs to be in place. Leaving things in limbo can seem like the easiest way out, but communications haver to be dealt with. You should always have the last letter in the file.

 

You need to remain clear regarding the proceedure.

 

1. Request CCA

 

2. Put account into dispute if they do not respond.

 

3. Respond to all communications stating that the account remains in dispute until they comply with CCA request.

 

You cannot realy go beyond that if they refuse to play ball, unless you want to take them to court.

 

 

I've done everything by the book. I've retained receipts for all letters and even taken screenshots of the signatures you get when you track online on the Royal Mail site. I've just composed my 5th reminder letter. I'm ending it with : It is imperative that MBNA be aware that simply ignoring this situation will not make it go away.

 

 

This is how I will end all of my correspondence from now on. In fact, I'm so worried that they're going to try to pull something that I am now going to actually pay the postage, have them apply the SD sticker and then I'm going to photograph the envelopes.

 

 

It's just a little more than ironic that I had a perfect record with MBNA (and anyone whom I've had credit with) up until they placed the account into dispute. I was a payer-never late. I have to remind them not to ignore the letters!

[MeeBroke]

Another weirdness:

 

Remembering that I have not ever had any 'black mark' on my credit score before, have always paid MBNA on time up until they put account in dispute, and continue to meet all of my financial obligations without fail- I had reason to ask for a temporary overdraft today from my bank. No biggie, totallly normal thing.

 

They had to put me through the 'approval process' which involved a check of my credit score. I thought 'oh begger, here we go'. They came back to me to see all was fine. I said 'really? Can you check MBNA for me?' They said they had my credit report open and that MBNA was NOT reporting me for non payment. I have not given them a penny in 5 months.

[Coactum]

It is imperative that MBNA be aware that simply ignoring this situation will not make it go away.

 

I loved that touch MeBroke

[Muffintop]

i think the same has happened with me, but i check experian report and there are two other agencies arnt there. Did you check all your credit files? this is odd think they are just inundated maybe and havent got round to it... warning though bcard did it straight away and this has completely messed me up with all banks and credit cards withdrawing any available credit and as a result had to go into a dmp

[MeeBroke]

i think the same has happened with me, but i check experian report and there are two other agencies arnt there. Did you check all your credit files? this is odd think they are just inundated maybe and havent got round to it... warning though bcard did it straight away and this has completely messed me up with all banks and credit cards withdrawing any available credit and as a result had to go into a dmp

 

 

In my second letter to MBNA, the notice of dispute, I mentioned that I am taking advice from a solicitor who is monitoring my credit score and that if MBNA makes any sort of negative report on the account we will respond immediately with legal redress, seeking (among other things) punative damages.

[citizenB]

YOu could always send them a copy of the email you received in an earlier post:) Of course, if the hard copy arrives then it would be even better to send a copy of that:-)

 

You mean the email from Trading Standards?

 

Yes:)

[MeeBroke]

WOW!!! It's here!!! Help and advice please gang.

 

After 5 months of completely ignoring my letters an envelope has arrived containing about 12 sheets of paper. No apology for the delay and one of the sheets seems to be a 'default notice'?

 

Ok where to start. The first thing I they have sent is a photocopy of the tear off slip from my application. It included my signature. It lists my credit limit as £9000 when it actually is now £18500. Here is both sides:

 

 

 

Here is a scan of page 3 of my 'statement' which claims to be a 'notice of default sums'. It is dated 14 August although the first time I have seen it is today.

Also included are four printed off pages of what appears to be a generic credit agreement. It has my name and address printed on it but no reference to my account (no account number or any specific details). Clearly nothing to do with the slip that I signed, I assume this has been created in the last couple of days. It is not dated. Do I need to scan it?

[Dotty50]

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements.html

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

 

Hi Meebroke

 

These are the links that supasnooper sent to me the other day, sorry don't think I have done it successfully but if you look at my thread for Mbna-Virgin Cca it is post 17. I must find out how to do this!

 

I have found one that looks very much like mine, I warn you there are loads but it would seem that the legibility is questioned for many.

 

Have you increased the size of this document? The one they sent me is terrible, it's so tiny it makes it very difficult to make out anything.

 

There is a tick in the box for PP which I may question as I am left handed and my ticks are usually the other way around!

 

Did you have a page that mentioned 'snakeskin' on it? I have, which I think may be due to application being made on line.