car was clamped but never received any letters

[dazza1011]

whew ive only been a member for one day and this is my second thread.

 

basically me and the wife both work for the council and when on work business we are given stickers to let us park in certain parking spaces in Sheffield.

 

the wife has used this particular car park for years but was given a ticket when she rung to complain she was told that they had been changed and we were no longer allowed to park there ( fair enough down to our department to tell us these things ).

 

so the next day she parked in another car park guess what this had been changed another ticket.

 

well we decided to challenge them ( not expecting much but worth a go ) so we challenged both and got a letter back from one basically saying tough we have to pay so we paid it.

 

but we never heard from the other so foolishly presumed it had been wiped off, well approx 6 months later we woke up to find a clamp on the car ( the clamper had clamped us at 5AM but told us he wasnt allowed to knock on the door until 7AM ) well the wife was in a state and said she would pay as she needed the car for work.

 

When the clamper came i asked why we had received nothing notifying us he said that they had sent letters and also a balliff visited our property previously ( i know they probably hear this all the time but we had honestly recieved nothing not even a court summons which was apparently heard in Teeside Court ).

 

is there anything that can be done ?

 

its not the ticket i object to we would have paid the ticket if we had known it was a no go.

 

its the ballifs fees which came to nearly £400

 

all help appreciated

[Jamberson]

Is this in connection to a PCN issued by or on behalf of a local council rather than a private firm?

 

Is your vehicle correctly registered at DVLA - ie correct name and address?

[dazza1011]

council car park and car is registered in wifes name and at our address

[Jamberson]

I can't tell you what I guess you'd like to hear, and unless there's been some impropriety, it is very unlikely you will be able to get your money back.

 

The bailiffs are chasing a payment which has two elements to it - the charges the Council are after plus their own fees. They take the whole whack and forward the Council's bit to them. They keep the rest - it's how they make a living.

 

Assuming they have a court authorised warrant (almost certain) and have not done anything illegal (nothing in your post suggests they have) then they can keep their fees legally as they were legitimately levied, so far as they are concerned.

 

The main question is whether the warrant should have been issued, and this is one area where you might have a case - but it would only get you back the council's share of what you paid, which is likely a hundred pounds or so. (You may know the exact figure, if the bailiffs gave you a break-down of charges).

 

Basically, before a case goes to warrant the Council have to locate the keeper of the vehicle. They get the name and address from DVLA so it is near certain they have sent post to the correct place, irrespective of whether it was delivered. That said - it's worth ringing them and asking for confirmation of what was sent, when, and to what address.

 

They SHOULD have issued and sent you

 

- a Notice to Owner

- a Charge Certificate

- an Order for Recovery

 

If their records show they did, and they sent them to the correct place, it's almost certainly a dead end. If they didn't, there's a possible way you could try and recover that part of what you paid. If you can check that and tell us the outcome, someone will tell you what to do next.

 

It is odd that if the bailiff says they came to your address before, they didn't drop something through the letter box. However I don't think they are obliged to. It would be very difficult to prove they didn't, but you can be sure they will have charged for that visit among their other charges.

[pin1onu]

It is worth either posting a link to this thread in the bailiff section or contacting Tomtubby.

She is very knowledgeable in this area.

 

You are supposed to receive paperwork at every stage.

 

This is a rough precis of the process. Your bits are highlighted in blue.

 

PCN, informal representation, informal representation response, NTO, formal appeal, formal response, appeal to adjudicator, Charge Certificate, Order of Recovery.

 

If the council don't receive or claim not to receive one of your bits within a prescribed time then they move by default to the next stage. If they accept your appeal or the adjudicator upholds the appeal then the process stops. They're not supposed to move on to the next stage until they have responded to any informal reps or formal appeals.

 

If you don't receive any of the paperwork then you are entitled to lodge an Out of Time Statutory Declaration, which if accepted will return to the NTO stage.

 

I don't agree with Jamberson when he says bailiff fees can't be recovered. Certainly they can't be recovered from the bailiff. However IMV you have a case against the council which you may have to persue in the county court.

[Jamberson]

I agree with what you say pin1 - we're at slightly cross purposes that's all. A case could be initiated in a court, but it's for compensation to the tune of whatever sum was paid to the bailiff - it's not quite 'getting the fees back' (they stay firmly in the bailiff's bank account) so much as getting an equivalent sum paid to you by the council at their expense. The upshot is the same though.

 

However to win a case such as that you'd have to prove that the Council did something improper. Remember, they are obliged to issue and send all those docs - they aren't liable if the docs don't get delivered.

 

If TomTubby is an expert in such cases, it would be great if she could give her view.

 

Out of Time stat dec would be the process to challenge the Council's piece of the pie, but unlikely to be accepted if all the docs show as having gone out correct.

[lamma]

statutory declaration out of time. Tomtubby is expert.

[tomtubby]

whew ive only been a member for one day and this is my second thread.

 

well we decided to challenge them ( not expecting much but worth a go ) so we challenged both and got a letter back from one basically saying tough we have to pay so we paid it.

 

but we never heard from the other so foolishly presumed it had been wiped off, well approx 6 months later we woke up to find a clamp on the car ( the clamper had clamped us at 5AM but told us he wasnt allowed to knock on the door until 7AM ) well the wife was in a state and said she would pay as she needed the car for work.

 

When the clamper came i asked why we had received nothing notifying us he said that they had sent letters and also a balliff visited our property previously ( i know they probably hear this all the time but we had honestly recieved nothing not even a court summons which was apparently heard in Teeside Court ).

 

 

You say that you appealed and received a rejection for one PCN that you then paid and that you did NOT receive a rejection for the second PCN. This is a very COMMON situation that our office see every day.

 

It is therefore CLEAR that you have grounds to file and OUT OF TIME LATE STATUTORY DECLARATION as ONE of the grounds is that you made representation within 28 days but did not receive a rejection.

 

HOWEVER, before gong this route I am confused to the reference to Teeside Court and the vast majority of Warrants are issued by the Traffic Enforcement Centre in Northamapton.

 

Before advising further you need to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre on Monday to ask if a Warrant has been authorised. You should also ask for confirmation of the address on the Warrant.

 

You will need the PCN when you call them. Their number is 08457 045 007.

 

If I miss your response, then please do remind me via PM and I will post back on the forum