Need advice - fare evasion

[ippy]

Can I start by saying, please no berating me. I have done a very stupid thing and I know that. I couldn't feel any worse than I do already.

 

Yesterday morning, I got on my usual train (which is at an unmanned station) and tried to buy my ticket off the conductor as usual. He said his credit card machine was broken so I'd need to buy it when I got off at my destination. When I got off, I queued up to buy it at the ticket inspection barrier and I very stupidly I said I got on at a closer stop. I normally wouldn't dream of doing this - have only ever done it once before and didn't get caught - but I am under enormous financial pressure right now. I only have £23 to last me for two weeks and that has to pay for travel (£22.60 a week) and food. So on the spur of the moment I tried to save £2 by asking for a ticket from a station I didn't get on at. Next thing I know, the guy hands the ticket he just sold me to another staff member who takes me to one side and tells me the station I said I got on at is closed. I immediately confessed, told him where I really got on at, that I did genuinely try to buy a ticket and that I lied because I am so broke at the moment. He took my name and address, did an address check and told me I would receive a letter from them in a month. The rail company was Northern Rail who say they have a zero tolerance policy toward fare evasion.

 

Now, I did wrong and I fully own up to it. It was stupid and spontanious and totally not worth it. I've just googled to see what happens and it seems this train company does prosecute people whenever it can. So I may get a criminal record, which will affect my job. I can't tell my partner as I am mortified and don't want to worry him. I feel sick.

 

I just want to know if anyone has this experience and what will happen to me.

[timbo58]

well, I'm sure you must know what is going to happen if you've looked through these threads.

All you can do is IF the TOC send you a settlement out of court offer is to grab it and pay up.

What you have now done after confessing to the inspector and signing his notebook means you will almost certainly be prosecuted.

Best is to think and accept the worst and hope for the best.

[andydd]

Can I start by saying, please no berating me. I have done a very stupid thing and I know that. I couldn't feel any worse than I do already.

 

Yesterday morning, I got on my usual train (which is at an unmanned station) and tried to buy my ticket off the conductor as usual. He said his credit card machine was broken so I'd need to buy it when I got off at my destination. When I got off, I queued up to buy it at the ticket inspection barrier and I very stupidly I said I got on at a closer stop. I normally wouldn't dream of doing this - have only ever done it once before and didn't get caught - but I am under enormous financial pressure right now. I only have £23 to last me for two weeks and that has to pay for travel (£22.60 a week) and food. So on the spur of the moment I tried to save £2 by asking for a ticket from a station I didn't get on at. Next thing I know, the guy hands the ticket he just sold me to another staff member who takes me to one side and tells me the station I said I got on at is closed. I immediately confessed, told him where I really got on at, that I did genuinely try to buy a ticket and that I lied because I am so broke at the moment. He took my name and address, did an address check and told me I would receive a letter from them in a month. The rail company was Northern Rail who say they have a zero tolerance policy toward fare evasion.

 

Now, I did wrong and I fully own up to it. It was stupid and spontanious and totally not worth it. I've just googled to see what happens and it seems this train company does prosecute people whenever it can. So I may get a criminal record, which will affect my job. I can't tell my partner as I am mortified and don't want to worry him. I feel sick.

 

I just want to know if anyone has this experience and what will happen to me.

 

Its not worth it to save a few quid is it ?

 

Firstly everyone in your position admits their guilt straight away hoping they will somehow be lenient but they rarely are and the TOC must love niave people who admit it all as oppsoed to people who offer no answers.

 

I guess if it was me I'd have said it was a mistake, I sometimes get on at different stataion as I'm near a few and it depends on weather and wether im cycling that day, etc.

 

As you have already seen, they may prefer to settle out of court, I'm guessing they make more money that way and avoid court hassle. If it's offered best to accept this.

 

Try not to worry, the rail system is rather unfair when you can be given demands or fines for several hundred pounds and a quick glimpse in any paper will see burglars, muggers, and other voilent offenders given cautions, youth service stuff, etc

 

Andy

[newmoses]

TrentBarton buses in Nottingham to whom I am employed, have on several occasions sent requests for money owed by passengers who use out of date travel passes(cashless card ).Fare evasion is fraud, and can carry a prison sentence, hefty fine, or both.On a good note though, if for any reason a passenger/passengers are not happy with any aspect of their journey, we give a no quibble on the spot refund of the fare.We are the only bus company in the U.K. to offer this, as we have done for the last 12 years.

[SRPO]

They will not ask you to pay X amount to settle out of court, the approach must come from you, as soon as they write you must respond making the point that it was an honest mistake and that you would like to settle out of court and pay the prosecution costs.

 

Alternately, if you feel that you have done nothing wrong you must plead Not Guilty.

[ippy]

SRPO, what are the chances they will allow me to settle out of court? I fully appreciate that I did wrong, and that my lack of money won't wash with the prosecution unit. So I am prepared to get a loan to cover any fine they give me. But a criminal record would seriously seriously mess up my life. I know what I did was illegal and stupid, and £2s add up to the rail company but a criminal record seems to mean I couldn't travel to certain countries and would show up on CRB checks, which would effectively end my career.

[SRPO]

I cant possibly say, every case will be treated on its merits, if you do as I suggested above and show that the consequences of a conviction would be disproportionate to the crime and therefore not in the public interest you may be successful.

However, in my experience they will not allow themselves to be out of pocket & will require you to pay costs (£100+).

In relation to the £2's adding up, yes thats true, but all the TOC's have strict policies relating to any fare evasion, whatever the amount, as far as they are concerned its theft.

[ippy]

Okay so a letter arrived this morning asking for my version of events. I will do as you suggested, SRPO, and say that the consequences of a conviction are disproportionate to the crime. Should I even bother explaining why I made a momentary lapse in judgement? Or is it always just cold hard facts (I didn't buy the correct ticket therefore should go to court). Also, is this the correct time for me to ask to settle out of court, or should I wait til they reply?

 

Andydd, I take your point on board but I genuinely have never been in trouble before and when I was stopped by the RPO, then of course I told the truth to avoid getting into deeper trouble. I suppose I could have given a wrong address or made an excuse like I forgot where I got on but I thought honesty was the best policy.

[SRPO]

See my earlier post.

[andydd]

Okay so a letter arrived this morning asking for my version of events. I will do as you suggested, SRPO, and say that the consequences of a conviction are disproportionate to the crime. Should I even bother explaining why I made a momentary lapse in judgement? Or is it always just cold hard facts (I didn't buy the correct ticket therefore should go to court). Also, is this the correct time for me to ask to settle out of court, or should I wait til they reply?

 

Andydd, I take your point on board but I genuinely have never been in trouble before and when I was stopped by the RPO, then of course I told the truth to avoid getting into deeper trouble. I suppose I could have given a wrong address or made an excuse like I forgot where I got on but I thought honesty was the best policy.

 

I'm sure..you like me were raised to think honesty is the best policy..alas its often not the case, I was reading a report regarding TfL fare evasion the other day, and it noted that most honest people gave their full name and address whereas the persistant offenders gave a fake name and address, they carried no ID and ultimately there is nothing an inspector can do

 

Andy

[SRPO]

I'm sure..you like me were raised to think honesty is the best policy..alas its often not the case, I was reading a report regarding TfL fare evasion the other day, and it noted that most honest people gave their full name and address whereas the persistant offenders gave a fake name and address, they carried no ID and ultimately there is nothing an inspector can do

 

Andy

 

Not strictly true, they have access to a database of every household in the UK. If they suspect false details they can call upon the police to verify the details given, although they cannot detain once 'a' name & address is given.

[andydd]

Not strictly true, they have access to a database of every household in the UK. If they suspect false details they can call upon the police to verify the details given, although they cannot detain once 'a' name & address is given.

 

As you may be aware, the above database is based on the electoral role which in no way is complete, people and adresses may or may not be on there for various reasons, (people moved, address demolished, new building, etc). They can of course call the police but as there is no 100% accurate database of every person at every address in the UK, it wouldnt provide any further info of course this is irrelevant if you do supply a name and address of a real person that isnt you.

 

I was recently with someone who did give their true name & addy, but had no ID on them and I saw the police check the electoral role database and it didn't prove that they lived there or not, the inspector and police then did get a bit stroppy and suspicious but there was nothing further they could do.

 

Andy

[Old-CodJA]

As you may be aware, the above database is based on the electoral role which in no way is complete, people and adresses may or may not be on there for various reasons, (people moved, address demolished, new building, etc). They can of course call the police but as there is no 100% accurate database of every person at every address in the UK, it wouldnt provide any further info of course this is irrelevant if you do supply a name and address of a real person that isnt you.

 

I was recently with someone who did give their true name & addy, but had no ID on them and I saw the police check the electoral role database and it didn't prove that they lived there or not, the inspector and police then did get a bit stroppy and suspicious but there was nothing further they could do.

 

Andy

 

Andydd, I remember reading in one of your previous posts that you said you were a travel consultant and for me, that makes your comments here even more surprising.

 

I'm disappointed that anyone should, even if only by inference, use these forums to suggest that people should give false details.

 

Encouraging fare evaders to compound the offence with a more serious one is hardly good advice in my book.

 

Breach of Section 5.3.a of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 by intending to avoid a fare is a criminal matter and carries the penalty of a substantial fine

 

Breach of S 5.3.c of the same Act by giving false details makes it imprisonable.

 

And by the way I wouldn't rely on the old belief that there is never anything they can do.

 

Yes, the basic data records check electoral roll, but there are far better systems available these days and these also do a wider check of utility and other records. Tracking & tracing names over a period of time and through a whole range of data records is commonplace

 

It's worth remembering that the vast majority of travellers in the areas these postings are concerned with are daily or at least regular travellers.

 

Our recent records reveal a surprising number of people who have given a false name and address one day believing that they have got away with it, only to be recognised and picked up at a later date. Sometimes, that horrid intrusion in all our lives CCTV has even played an occasional part too.

 

Honesty IS the best policy and having made an out of character opportunist attempt to avoid a fare, the OP was right to put his hands up.

 

I suggest explaining that in a letter and highlighting the fact that a conviction for a first and last, momentary act of stupidity will be entirely disproportionate to the scale of offence. Offering to pay the TOC's reasonable costs and the unpaid fare in order to settle the case without Court action and expressing remorse is the best chance of a quick and reasonably painless resolution.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[andydd]

Andydd, I remember reading in one of your previous posts that you said you were a travel consultant and for me, that makes your comments here even more surprising.

 

I'm disappointed that anyone should, even if only by inference, use these forums to suggest that people should give false details.

 

Encouraging fare evaders to compound the offence with a more serious one is hardly good advice in my book.

 

Breach of Section 5.3.a of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 by intending to avoid a fare is a criminal matter and carries the penalty of a substantial fine

 

Breach of S 5.3.c of the same Act by giving false details makes it imprisonable.

 

And by the way I wouldn't rely on the old belief that there is never anything they can do.

 

Yes, the basic data records check electoral roll, but there are far better systems available these days and these also do a wider check of utility and other records. Tracking & tracing names over a period of time and through a whole range of data records is commonplace

 

It's worth remembering that the vast majority of travellers in the areas these postings are concerned with are daily or at least regular travellers.

 

Our recent records reveal a surprising number of people who have given a false name and address one day believing that they have got away with it, only to be recognised and picked up at a later date. Sometimes, that horrid intrusion in all our lives CCTV has even played an occasional part too.

 

Honesty IS the best policy and having made an out of character opportunist attempt to avoid a fare, the OP was right to put his hands up.

 

I suggest explaining that in a letter and highlighting the fact that a conviction for a first and last, momentary act of stupidity will be entirely disproportionate to the scale of offence. Offering to pay the TOC's reasonable costs and the unpaid fare in order to settle the case without Court action and expressing remorse is the best chance of a quick and reasonably painless resolution.

 

To be honest my role was mainly IT support but I did get involved in some transport modelling for TfL, prediucting new lines, passanger flows, etc but this didnt involve fare evasion in any way.

 

Secondly I wasnt condoning fare evasion at all, I was repeating what i had read in a report from TfL that stated that the majority of persistant evaders get away with it because they are 'clever' enough to know the system and give false names and addresses, the people who are caught and prosecuted are very often the kind of people who seem to post here, i.e they made a genuine mistake or thought they try it on just the once to save a few quid and get caught.

 

Personally if it was me I would be totally honest and admit what I had done.

 

TfL in particular do appear to offer little sympathy even when it is clear people have made a genuine mistake..a good example is...a bus comes along, you are pretty certain that there is enough money on your oyster, lets say approx £1, you get on the bus, its very busy, you fight your way to the oyster reader, swipe your card, it beebs and shows red, an inspector than asks for your oyster, there wasnt enough money on it, lets say only 70p, your Oyster hasnt been validated and you are thern questioned and liable to being prosocuted, this is quite a common occurance, TfL are well aware of it, yet they very often prosecute people for a simple mistake of not being able to keep track of exactly how much is on their oyster card.

 

You note that giving false details can be an imprisonable offence, do you honestly think that is fair ?. I'm sure i can pick up any local paper and read about violent offenders who recieve 'slaps on the wrist' from courts and yet here we are with almost draconian measures upon our transport system for lets face it, minor 'crimes'.

 

My views were compounded one late evening when a west end night bus I was on was 'raided' by at least 20 TfL fare evasion staff and about an equal number of police, It did occur to be that on a busy friday night in Soho there must be far greater crimes being commited than a handful of people evading a £1 fare, I dont care what the TfL staff get upto but to have such a large number of police officers with them did seem a waste of police time and resources which would be far better used elsewhere.

 

ok..rant over..ha

 

Andy

Edited July 12, 2009 by andydd

[SRPO]

Deleted.

Edited September 23, 2009 by SRPO

[andydd]

You are correct that the database is based on the electoral role, however it is has been developed into a more powerful search tool than just looking up voters records, it accesses other information too.

 

Big Brother is here !

[dasdas]

IPPY can you tell me what happened with your Fare Evasion case... i am in the exact same situation.. i have not recieved the letter from them yet.. i am very confused and feel soo stupid.. your advice will be very helpful.. will i get a criminal record im still a student

thanks

[AmberGreen]

HI,

 

Can someone update me with what happened with the fare evasion case?

i am in a similar position, appart from i realised ididn't have enough on the train, so decided to buy a cheaper one and make up for the difference the next time i travel. ensuring they wouldnt be out of pocket. the ticket inspector asked me if it i borded the train with the intention of evading payment and i clearly said "NO, BUT I realised on the train that i didn't have enough" she didn't ask me any further questions, thanked me for my time and sent me on my way to work. She did say i should hear from them within 6 weeks which i didn't. i received the letter 4 days (2working days) before the hearing. I kept all of my tickets for 3 monthes to proove that i made it up, but since i didn't hear from them i assumed they decided to let this one pass.

The hearing was in November and the "offence" was in June. Can anyone help? I have pleaded Not guilty but it feels like a witch hunt.

 

thanks

[Old-CodJA]

HI,

 

Can someone update me with what happened with the fare evasion case?

i am in a similar position, appart from i realised ididn't have enough on the train, so decided to buy a cheaper one and make up for the difference the next time i travel. ensuring they wouldnt be out of pocket. the ticket inspector asked me if it i borded the train with the intention of evading payment and i clearly said "NO, BUT I realised on the train that i didn't have enough" she didn't ask me any further questions, thanked me for my time and sent me on my way to work. She did say i should hear from them within 6 weeks which i didn't. i received the letter 4 days (2working days) before the hearing. I kept all of my tickets for 3 monthes to proove that i made it up, but since i didn't hear from them i assumed they decided to let this one pass.

The hearing was in November and the "offence" was in June. Can anyone help? I have pleaded Not guilty but it feels like a witch hunt.

 

thanks

 

I assume that this is the same case that you have posted under the thread entitled caught by inspector , hellllp and which has received responses there?