Egg CCA

[LB145]

Sent request to Egg for a copy of Signed CCA on 15th April , signed for 16th April, no response so I sent a second letter on May 11th notifyng them that the 12 + 2 days had expired on the 5th May and that they were now legally in default of my request and that I requested a True signed copy of the CCA. Received a letter today dated 14th May stating that they are dealing with my complaint and that they had eight weeks to respond, another letter arrived today dated 14th May requested that I re-submit my request with proof of who I am either a signed signature letter (I do not think so!) or an official utility bill - not a photocopy but original, do I ignore this as all correspondence has been to me at this address, my contact details are correct - obviously delaying tactics. Also they took £265 from my bank account today (DD did not cancel in time) despite my letter stating that they cannot enforce, pursue or increase my indebtedness until they comply with my request within 30 days.

 

Is the 30 days from the original request letter or 30 days from the 2nd letter? Sorry it all gets abit confusing.:?

[Talbot]

try to forget the money taken out dd the fact it wasn't cancelled wasn't their fault (in the eyes of the legal system me thinks) if you can stand it (financially) put it down to experience (did it myself) they will some come knocking next month when money isn't paid just look at yourself as a number who won't come up until the cash isn't coming into their pockets then they will notice and the games wil commence. Chill out and enjoy life for a month and then get into the facts and figures!

[cds]

The 30 day rule was repealed in 2006 you are in dispute until they supply a valid cca

 

cds

[LB145]

The 30 day rule was repealed in 2006 you are in dispute until they supply a valid cca

 

cds

 

Thanks - appreciate any advice

[LB145]

Update - cancelled D/D last week asnow in offiicial dispute received a letter from Egg - they are not happy that they have been notified of D/D cancellation as my credit agreement states that I must have a D/D in place and gave me an option of redoing it myself or they can reinstate themselves! Although they still have not sent me a copy of a signed credit agreement.

[LB145]

Any advice on next step please - or do I just wait?

[cds]

Until they fully comply with your cca request they cannot enforce in court. I tend to reply to any relevent points they make in writing. Have you wrote and formally put them in dispute.

 

cds:)

[LB145]

Yes officially wrote to them on 11th May 2009 stating "You are now legally in default of request - Account in Dispute" - Received letter about signature verification - so wrote again on 24th May 2009 again stating the above - nothing as yet still emailing me notification of statements.

[LB145]

Post just arrived - 2 separate letters - both containing signed copy of CCA dated Aug 2002 - is it time to reinstall DD?

[42man]

Do they contain the prescribed terms on the signature page ?

 

CCA RULES FOR PRESCRIBED TERMS

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Prescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  
• And there is no advance payment
  

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

[42man]

Just be careful what you say here as spies are lurking......

[LB145]

Thanks 42man!

 

Copy of CCA that Egg have sent attached (really cant get the hang of this picture thing) - I have taken the name and address out etc. There are three pages (covering letter and Page 1 and 2 of CCA) the CCA is a photocopy and there are 8 additional printed T&C's

 

Any advice welcome

 

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA2of3.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA3of3.jpg

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA1of3.jpg

Edited June 14, 2009 by LB145

[LB145]

Finally worked out picture insert - any advice on the CCA document:confused:

Edited June 14, 2009 by LB145

[LB145]

Thanks 42man!

 

Copy of CCA that Egg have sent attached (really cant get the hang of this picture thing) - I have taken the name and address out etc. There are three pages (covering letter and Page 1 and 2 of CCA) the CCA is a photocopy and there are 8 additional printed T&C's

 

Any advice welcome

 

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA2of3.jpg

 

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA3of3.jpg

 

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggCCA1of3.jpg

 

Any advice as I think I need to respond

[supasnooper]

Have you read this thread ? -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html

[LB145]

Have you read this thread ? -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html

 

Had a look at the thread thanks, really need help with a letter to Egg as my CCA is pre 2005 - see furhter up thread - would be really grateful for a draft letter - please!!!

[seriously fed up]

For what its worth, at the same stage, they got this from me. Your paperwork looks to have the same problems

Dear Sir

 

Account number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx - IN DISPUTE

I refer to your letter of 28th May 2009, and in particular the document headed “Egg Card Agreement for (my name)”, which I assume is the document you are relying on in relation to your demand for payment. However, I now consider to be in dispute for the following two reasons.

 

In your letter you say that the “signed credit card agreement ... shows you ] agreed to the Terms and Conditions of the agreement”. However, the agreement is improperly executed under section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and associated regulations.

1.According to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (Schedule 1), this agreement should have been given the heading “Credit Card Agreement”. In fact it has been incorrectly headed “Egg Card Agreement for (my name) “and, subsequently, “Credit Agreement”.

2.Additionally, no “Credit Limit” has been stated – this is a prescribed term set out in the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, as required by section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In paragraph 3 of the document you have sent me, the phrase used there - “Approved Limit” - is not sufficient to advise me what the credit limit is or how it will be decided, and therefore a prescribed term is not correctly stated. On this point, please see Central Trust Plc V Spurway [2005] CCLR,where HHJ Overend states

24.” In my judgment, the passages of Lord Nicholls’ speech cited by Mr Say persuade me that:

(a)The amount of credit must mean credit in its technical sense, and

(b)That although the use of the word “credit” is not prescribed, there should not be any confusion in the mind of the lay reader as to what the amount of credit is”

As the agreement has been improperly executed, it is only enforceable by an order of the court, by virtue of section 65. However, since it does not explicitly state the term “credit limit” (rather, it mentions only an "Approved Limit”), as required by Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, the court would be prevented from granting such an order by virtue of section 127(3).

3.Paragraph 22 of Schedule 1 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations requires that the agreement details the default charges payable. The document that you have sent to me fails to provide this information, and is therefore deficient in terms of these regulations, making the agreement further improperly executed.

I trust you will now be in a position to reduce the balance on this account to £0 and to remove any default that has been registered by yourselves with any credit reference agency, as required by the Data Protection Act 1984.

 

Furthermore, please be aware that from this point onwards I will respond only to written contact. You are now under notice that I will not discuss personal or confidential matters over the phone under any circumstances whatsoever.

 

I trust you are aware of the limitations placed upon you now that the account has been formally disputed. I particularly draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a valid and enforceable credit agreement and the payment protection insurance complaint are both very clear disputes and therefore the following applies:

• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.

• You must not pass this account to any third party.

• You must not issue a default notice on this account.

• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies. To register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute. I note that you are a subscriber to this Code.

 

Any further actions taken by Egg to collect the alleged debt whilst it is under dispute will be vigorously defended. I am also aware of the law regarding harassment of creditors under these circumstances and will use UK law to defend myself.

 

I look forward to receiving a satisfactory response.

 

Yours faithfully

This was shamelessly plagiarised by me from other letters written by others more knowledgeable than I, but if you find it useful then please go ahead.

Just one word of warning, despite all this, I got the Trevor Munn (we are taking you to Court) letter this morning. Sport, physical activity and health: Future prospects for improving the health of the nation

[LB145]

Thanks for the template Seriously Fed up - your name is exactly how I feel - really heavy headed with it all. As you seem to be ahead of me I would be interested as to how yours going, so that I know what the next stage will be.

[langtonhighway]

Hi,

 

I'm in the same position as you guys (approved limit etc) - and I've noticed that in the terms & conditions photocopie, it mentions that their charges for going overlimit, returned direct debits etc, is £20. Would it make a difference that this has been held unreasonable?

 

And, Can a DCA REALLY not pursue you for the debt just because the agreement says "approved limit"??

 

Ta!

[LB145]

Egg still sending Default Notices and qould like me to bring the account up to date! - no response to letter of complaint yet?

[seriously fed up]

sorry guys, not been keeping up with this one. How things have progressd can be found at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/180689-egg-cca-moorcroft-good-3.html#post2302604 and at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/204230-egg-court-claim-help-2.html#post2298467

[LB145]

Received a leter from Egg today informing me that I need to call them urgently as they do not hold up to date phone numbers (what a shame!) and that I have not responsed to their leters sent - and if I do not make up the missed payemnts then they wil isue a Statutory Default Notice and isue legal proceding to recover monies owed.

I did actualy send the previous leter in this thread stating my disagrements with the CCA agreement and they had totally ignored this as if it has never arrived. -Do I resend the letter - just to remind them how utterly useles they are?

Edited August 14, 2009 by LB145
Wireles keyboard and it does not like double leters

[LB145]

Copy of letter received

 

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/Diamond40_photo/EggLetterAUG09.jpg

[car2403]

Their system is incapable of recognising your dispute as they don't want to understand it - as a result, you'll get more and more follow up letters with all kinds of threats.

 

It's up to you what you do about them, but to my mind, they aren't entitled to continuing harassing you like this until they've resolved your dispute.

 

Some people reply to each letter received, some ignore them all until they have satisfied their dispute.

 

Your call, then.

[vint1954]

Hi LB,

 

As Car2403 says, your letter from egg is just part of the escalation process. They do not read your letters.

 

The agreement has a couple of minor problems in it, but I do not thing that these would mortally wound the agreement in court.

 

1. It should use the term Credit limit not approved limit. Minor point.

 

2. There are no cancellation rights that I can see. I am currently looking at this, as it could well render such agreemnts unexecuted, but at an early stage at present.

 

It is hard to see or read the prescribed terms clearly. If the copy you have is that bad, then it is illegible.

 

As car2403 detailed earlier in the thread, the prescribed terms are:

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8. ( or how this is to be determined )

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

Edited August 27, 2009 by vint1954
mizpelt some worms