Phoenix Claimform HSBC Credit Card **Won - discontinued!**

[jon888999]

Bump!

[I've got no money]

Thank you to all of you, who are helping in this case.

 

Am I right in my assumption that Mortimer Clarkes response to defence is a load of ----? I actually believe it is an attempt to mislead the courts?

Apart from complaining to OFT etc. Is there anything that can be done to stop the apalling behaviour of these claimants & Mortimer Clarke. Not even thinking of this case specifically but more in general.

What should be my next move?

 

Take Care

Jon

 

Yes - you are it is a load of proverbial...

 

So I think that you need to file an AQ - ask for allocation to the fast track and tell the court that you will be applying to strike out, enclose an N244 with your application for an order to strike out or in the alternative for specific disclosure.

 

They're adopting an interesting approach to their refusal to disclose by saying that they only need to disclose documents which assist your case and that they haven't disclosed because giving you the docs won't help you. That is the test for standard disclosure (see CPR 31.6) however Part 31 also imposes additional disclosure requirements - see 31.14 which gives a right to see any docs mentioned in the claim form etc...

 

As far as Mortimer Clarke goes...complain to the SRA

[jon888999]

Thank you to all of you, who are helping in this case.

 

Am I right in my assumption that Mortimer Clarkes response to defence is a load of ----? I actually believe it is an attempt to mislead the courts?

Apart from complaining to OFT etc. Is there anything that can be done to stop the apalling behaviour of these claimants & Mortimer Clarke. Not even thinking of this case specifically but more in general.

What should be my next move?

 

Take Care

Jon[/quote

 

Yes - you are it is a load of proverbial...

 

So I think that you need to file an AQ - ask for allocation to the fast track and tell the court that you will be applying to strike out, enclose an N244 with your application for an order to strike out or in the alternative for specific disclosure.

 

They're adopting an interesting approach to their refusal to disclose by saying that they only need to disclose documents which assist your case and that they haven't disclosed because giving you the docs won't help you. That is the test for standard disclosure (see CPR 31.6) however Part 31 also imposes additional disclosure requirements - see 31.14 which gives a right to see any docs mentioned in the claim form etc...

 

As far as Mortimer Clarke goes...complain to the SRA

Hi, Thanks I filed an AQ before the original allocation hearing in November, I'll scan it in later and hopefully somebody can let me know what needs to be changed on it.

Also any hints for the complaint to the SRA?

Take Care

Jon

[I've got no money]

I'm confused - I thought that the proceedings were stayed and that you had to file an AQ at the end of the stay - I didn't realise that you'd already filed an AQ

 

In terms of the SRA - if you have a look on their website - look at the advocacy code - and use that to base your complaint on

[jon888999]

I'm confused - I thought that the proceedings were stayed and that you had to file an AQ at the end of the stay - I didn't realise that you'd already filed an AQ

 

In terms of the SRA - if you have a look on their website - look at the advocacy code - and use that to base your complaint on

 

The allocation hearing was in November, the case was stayed then, I believe because MC'S rep didn't have a clue, or have any paperwork, so the judge stayed it for mediation. The DJ didn't make any other orders or directions

The latest order is a bit confusing because AQ'S have been submitted previously. Do I resubmit? Or just remind the court that they have been submitted. My original AQ did include the following draft order:

To Portsmounth County Court on August 2008.

Copied to Mortimer Clarke Defendants Solicitors on August 2008.

Both despatched by Royal Mail Special Delivery.

 

In the Portsmouth County Court

 

 

Claim Numbers:8XN AND 8XN

Between

Phoenix Recoveries UK LTD SARL- Claimant

 

and

 

Defendant

 

Draft Order for Directions

As the claimant is outside of United Kingdom jurisdiction, this claim is not under the Jurisdiction of the Portsmouth County Court and therefore will be struck out immediately.

 

Alternatively should the honourable court not agree with the above:

 

The Claimant and Original Creditor have admitted in writing that True copies of the alleged original signed agreements are unavailable. The alleged agreements are therefore declared Unenforceable and the claim will be struck out immediately.

 

Alternatively should the honourable court not agree with the above:

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• True Copies of the original signed Credit Agreements and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations
  
• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  
• Document, contract or deed of assignment
  
• Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  
• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon
  
• Details of all Charges applied to this account by the original creditor or the claimant
  

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

Should the Claimant provide the required information, The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant
  
• A counter claim taking due regard of the large amount of unlawful penalty charges applied to these alleged accounts.
  

[I've got no money]

As the Court has directed a fresh AQ - I would file one anyway but I think that your directions need amending:-

 

I suggest that you write to the court with a fresh AQ and fresh draft directions doing a covering letter and ask the court to disregard the previous AQ.

 

Incidentally the court has jurisdiction - the fact that the claimant is a foreign company does not affect jurisdiction - the case is in Portsmouth as that is your local court.

 

You are right that the case should not go ahead without the signed CCA but the way to get the case struck out is by getting an order that they provide it and then, when they don't provide it, getting an order that unless they provide it they are struck out

 

Before I suggest amendments can I ask have you already made a CPR 31.14 request. Have you already requested copies of the CCA, Assignment, DN, NoA, copies of statements etc.

[I've got no money]

Hi Jon

 

sorry I can't help much with your case, although like you say they shouldn't get far with no agreement.

 

Hopefully Distric Judge Ackroyd will be seeing DCA solicitors showing their true colours!! I have orders from him/her to do with my case at Portsmouth CC, so far all have them have been ignored. It seems so unfair, I make sure I complied with every order keeping proof of postage and delivery, yet the solicitors seem to make their own rules:evil:.

 

I have written to the Court Manager as well asking for the case to be struck out - its got to the Witness statement stage and yet NO paperwork regarding the account has ever been produced even though that was one of the Orders!!

 

Anyway good luck, Im sure someone with the knowledge to help will be along soon.

 

Pookey

 

Pookeymonkey - rather than just write to the court manager - you need to make an application on an N244 - but before you do that you need to write to the other side and give them 7 days to comply with the order

[jon888999]

As the Court has directed a fresh AQ - I would file one anyway but I think that your directions need amending:-

 

I suggest that you write to the court with a fresh AQ and fresh draft directions doing a covering letter and ask the court to disregard the previous AQ.

 

Incidentally the court has jurisdiction - the fact that the claimant is a foreign company does not affect jurisdiction - the case is in Portsmouth as that is your local court.

 

You are right that the case should not go ahead without the signed CCA but the way to get the case struck out is by getting an order that they provide it and then, when they don't provide it, getting an order that unless they provide it they are struck out

 

 

 

Before I suggest amendments can I ask have you already made a CPR 31.14 request. Have you already requested copies of the CCA, Assignment, DN, NoA, copies of statements etc.

 

Yep made a 31.14 request in reply to which I received a blank agreement, which was totally irrelevant, HSBC not Midland & some statements. Nothing else just confirmation that they don't have anything else and won't reply to any further requests.

Jon

 

In the Portsmouth County Court

 

 

Claim Numbers:8XN AND 8XN

Between

Phoenix Recoveries UK LTD SARL- Claimant

 

and

 

-Defendant

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

following your total disregard for my CPR 18 request, Please ensure you fully co-operate with this request.

 

Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was not complied with.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached. This agreement must be signed and correctly executed.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time. I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours Faithfully.

 

[I've got no money]

So I would suggest then that you explain on the AQ that you have made a CPR 31.14 request that hasn't been satisfied, attach a copy of the 31.14 letter to the AQ and that the directions you want are:

1. Allocate to Fast Track

2. The Claimant shall by 4pm (14 days from the date of the Order) provide the Defendant with (then list everything on the CPR 31.14 request - that they haven't provided ). In default of which the Claim shall be struck out

3. The Defendant shall, within 14 days of receipt of the documents referred to at 2 above, have permission to file an amended defence

 

I don't think that you will, unless the Judge is in a very good mood or is not paying attention, get an Order that they are struck out if they don't comply BUT its' worthwhile asking.

[jon888999]

I've been working away and got this in the post>

I didn't see this coming! This judgement was set a side in July 2008 and is part of the above case now. Help what do I do?

Surely it's got to be fraud to attempt to get a charging order when the judgement is set a side?

Another e.mail to the OFT I think!

Does this mean Mortimer Clarke are no longer on the scene?

I suspect that Phoenix have misled this new solicitor?

Thanks in advance.

 

P O Box 7347, Nottingham NG1 5ZZTel: (0115) 911 1532 Fax:(0115) 911 1541

 

Vbung&Pearce

 

Solicitors

 

MR 33

Dear Sir/Madam

 

YourRef:

Our Ref: 7 Mav 2009

 

Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd S.A.R.L - Outstanding Accounf Claim Form Number: 8XN8888

We enclose by way of service upon you. the following:

1. Copy Application Notice together with office copy entries in support:

2. Copy Interim Order.

Please take note that a hearing has been set for 15O6/2009 at 10:00 at which it is our client's intention to request that the court make a final charging order.

Yours faithfully

 

Young & Pearce

Interim charging order

 

In the NORWICH County Court

Claim Number

 

Claimant

(including ref.)

Phoenix Recoveries(Uk)Ltd Sarl-Marlin Recoveries 000

Defendant

(including ref.)

Mr

 

On 01 May 2009, DISTRICT JUDGE considered the application of the claimant ('the judgment creditor'), from which it appears:

a) a judgment or order given on 06 May 2008 by the Northampton in claim no. 8XN488888, ordered the defendant

('the judgment debtor') to pay money to the judgment creditor;

b) the amount now owing under the judgment or order is £5,617.05 (including any interest and costs); and

c) the judgment debtor is the owner of, or has a beneficial interest in the asset described in the schedule below;

and the court orders that

1. The interest of the judgment debtor Mr the asset described in the schedule below stand charged with payment of £5,617.05 together with any further interest becoming due and the costs of the application.

1. The application will be heard at 10:00 a.m. on 15 June 2009 at Norwich County Court, The Law Courts, Bishopgaie. Norwich. Norfolk. NR3 1UR when a judge will decide whether the charge created by this order should continue rwith or without modification) or should be discharged.

 

The Schedule

 

The address of the land or property charged is the title to which is registered at H.M. Land Registry under Title No.

 

 

 

The court office at NORWICH County Court.The Law Courts, Bishopgate. Norwich, Norfolk. NR3 1UR is open between 10am and 4pm Monday to Friday. When corresponding wi Lhe court, please address forms or letters to the Court Manager and quote the claim number. Tel: 01603 728200 Fax: 01603 760863

Produced by:LEDWARDS CJR093

 

 

DM,*,,,.aH U,,.T CnWAQT

 

N86 Interim charging order

Edited May 10, 2009 by jon888999
Personal details removed.

[I've got no money]

First of all you've left your personal details on - you need to remove them.

 

Its' bizarre - I don't understand how the court would make the interim order when the judgment had been set aside

 

Presumably you have the actual Order setting the judgment aside.

 

I would write to the Sols on the other side point out that there is no judgment and that it was set aside on (put the date of the Order) - send them a photocopy of your order - invite them to withdraw their application for a charging order.

 

The whole purpose of a CO is that it enforces a judgment - if there is no judgment the CO falls

[MARTIN3030]

I think there are far too many identifiers in the thread which need to be edited.

Can you please edit out the claim number and also the named Judge-The Courts do not like to see this !!

[jon888999]

Thanks, Claim number is not the correct number and I've deleted the judges name.

Take Care

Jon

[42man]

Jon....I think you need to appear at this, and 'fillet-their donkey' there has obviously been a severe breakdown in communication....I think a letter to the solicitors, explaining that the judgment has been set aside, and you will be appearing in court and claiming your costs.....then when they withdraw, you could possibly go for a wasted costs order.....

[jon888999]

Hi.

I,ve written to them suggesting they withdraw the charging order or I will be attending court in Norwich 200 miles away & claiming costs etc.

Lack of communication, no more likely yet another attempt by Phoenix to Harrass me into

backing down.

Should I write to both courts ref this, surely the claim can't be going on in 2 courts at the sametime.

The OFT appear very interested in this case, I've been asked quite a few questions by them following my email to them.

Thanks

Jon

[jon888999]

Should I write to both courts ref this, surely the claim can't be going on in 2 courts at the sametime.

The OFT appear very interested in this case, I've been asked quite a few questions by them following my email to them. So i've also advised them of this latest development.

Thanks

Jon

[jon888999]

bump

[I've got no money]

I hadn't realised that they had issued the same case in two separate courts...

 

I think that you need to speak to Norwich - give them a call tomorrow and explain the position - see if you can clarify exactly what Norwich has - is there a CCJ at Norwich - and why is it there.

 

I've just realised - I think that they've mixed you up with another case

 

They've done this before - at one stage they issued a load of summonses with the wrong Defendants' details on them - they discontinued and re-issued them all

[jon888999]

Both claims are at Portsmouth and were combined by the judge at the set a side as they both are HSBC credit cards. The judgement referred to in the charging order was set a side in July Copy of set a side order below. I think that the new solicitor has been given false information by Phoenix and hasn't been told that this judgement was set a side. Knowing Phoenix deliberately!

I've checked the original order and it's definitely the same claim.

Would the court send me a copy of the order? I've only recieved it from Young and Pearce.

Could they have knocked it up in photoshop etc, because when I scanned it in, it showed some funny lines where it could be a cut and paste job. I had to alter the scan settings to get rid of them.

I'll ring Norwich tomorrow to ask.

Theres also a mention of Guildford county court on the application for charging order, but no mention of Portsmouth.

I've got to send my new aq in this week, it's ready, but Should I add something in about this charging order?

Just noticed Marlins ref. number is different as well.

General Form of Judgment or Order

To the Defendant

In the PORTSMOUTH County Court

Claim Number

 

Claimant

(including ref.)

Phoenix Recoveries(Uk)Ltd Sarl-Marlin Recoveries

Defendant

(including ref.)

 

Date

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

\

 

 

Before DISTRICT JUDGE sitting at Portsmouth County Court, Courts of Justice, Winston Churchill Avenue, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO1 2EB.

Upon reading the letter from the Claimant and the Defendant not attending

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1. The Judgment is set aside.

2. The Defendant shall by 1 August 2008 file and serve a defence and counterclaim (if any).

3.Consolidate with,

which shall be the lead matter.

4. No order for costs.

The date in the box at the top right of this form is the date on which this order was drawn up. The date on which the Judge made the order is set out above.

If you require assistance then please consult Community Legal Service Direct by telephoning 0845 345 4 345, all

calls are charged at local rate. Alternatively you can log on to their website at

http://www.clsdirect.org.uk Community Legal Advice - free legal advice for residents of England and Wales, paid for by legal aid > .

Dated July 2008

The court office at PORTSMOUTH County Court,Courts Of Justice, Winston Churchill Avenue, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO1 2EB is open between 10am and 4pm Monday to Friday. [/color]

Edited January 17, 2010 by jon888999

[I've got no money]

Yes - but how does a Portsmouth case end up in Norwich...

 

My problem is that I would have thought that the Judge who made the CO nisi would have had the court file...which is what I find bizarre - I don't understand what a Norwich Judge was doing making an order on a Portsmouth case...

 

I think that you need to speak to Norwich...

[jon888999]

Yes - but how does a Portsmouth case end up in Norwich...

 

My problem is that I would have thought that the Judge who made the CO nisi would have had the court file...which is what I find bizarre - I don't understand what a Norwich Judge was doing making an order on a Portsmouth case...

 

I think that you need to speak to Norwich...

Especially as at the time they must have applied for it the case was stayed for mediation etc.

I'll ring Norwich tomorrow.

Thanks

[Abby25]

Subbing with interest, as I have the same situation, no agreement, but creditor believe still enforceable..

[jon888999]

Subbing with interest, as I have the same situation, no agreement, but creditor believe still enforceable..

The creditor knows it's not enforceable, they are just trying to convince you it is. If they get lucky with a judge who knows what will happen.

If it's Phoenix I'd recommend you complain to the OFT.

Take Care

Jon

[The GodMother]

Iam close to Norwich i can help if u want with support.

[jon888999]

Iam close to Norwich i can help if u want with support.

Thanks, if they don't withdraw the application i'll take you up on your offer.

Take care

Jon