Fine for Failing to give information

[orge]

Hi,

 

I was court by a speed camera around June last year (about 35mph in a 30 zone). The car was registered to my company and my details were passed on to the police. Eventually, I received a NIP from them. I'll be honest and say that I didn't get round to replying until they had sent me a reminder; after which I heard nothing more - I didn't send the letter by recorded delivery.

 

Then, out of the blue, I received a summons about 6 weeks ago. I spoke to a court administrator and was advised that my only options were to complete the form and respond. I pleaded guilty and sent the form back explaining the above circumstances and that I am currently facing financial hardship (recently made redundant).

 

I've just opened the post for today and the judge has levied a £525 fine, in addition to £75 costs. To me, this seems grossly out of proportion to the offense and completely fails to take into consideration my financial position. That said, I appreciate that I probably have very few options to appeal/reduce this figure.

 

I am unlikely to be able to get anywhere close to paying this kind of sum in the near future. Any advice on how best to deal with this would be much appreciated. I did try calling the court offices today, but they had already closed.

 

Thanks,

 

James

[patdavies]

Did you not complete the income statement ( a Court supplied form, not a personal letter) that came with the summons and return it to the Court? If you did not, the the Court assumes an income of £350/week - so you have been fined 1.5 week's income

 

If you are out of work, why did you not attend and plead guilty with mitigation?

 

I presume that you also have 6 penalty points on your licence as well.

 

All you can do now is contact the Court and request that the order be modified to allow payment by instalments.

[Rob S]

Another option is to appeal against the sentence.

[orge]

Did you not complete the income statement ( a Court supplied form, not a personal letter) that came with the summons and return it to the Court? If you did not, the the Court assumes an income of £350/week - so you have been fined 1.5 week's income

 

If you are out of work, why did you not attend and plead guilty with mitigation?

 

I presume that you also have 6 penalty points on your licence as well.

 

All you can do now is contact the Court and request that the order be modified to allow payment by instalments.

 

Yes, I completed the means statement fully and outlined my financial/ employment circumstances in my statement to the court. I will clarify whether these were taken into consideration by the judge though, when I contact the court office tomorrow.

 

I didn't attend in person, because I didn't appreciate that this could carry such a serious penalty. I had resigned myself to the fact that I would be getting points on my license, but I never really entertained the possibility that a judge would slap someone who was unemployed with a £5-600 fine. I have no experience of fining levels, so does this seem harsh giving my circumstances? It certainly feels like it, but then it's still half of the "maximum" fine...

 

Thanks for your help,

 

James

[the_freedom_trail]

On one level this seems absolutely crazy how someone who is doing 35mph in a 30mph can be fined £525 when on the other hand we have got the Police in London allegedly contributing to the death of innocent people caught up in a protest against the banks behaving like money grabbing people. That said this is a whole other debate. I would contact the court a.s.a.p and advise of your circumstances. All that for 5mph?!?!?!?! What a bizarre bloody country we live in/exist in

 

TFT

Edited April 9, 2009 by emmaf01
potentially libellous comment changed

[orge]

Yes, it makes you sick. How's this for an alternative comparison?

UK: Ninety MPH Police Chief Clears 26 Subordinates of Speeding

 

J

[the_freedom_trail]

It is just a mere measure of control that the Government uses over us. All this speed kills business is pure nonsense. It is not speed alone that kills. There are often factors such as drugs and alcohol involved. I also love the comments on Police Camera Action type programmes that the streets are safer because one more untaxed vehicle is off the road. Ermm, so having a paper disc in your window makes you a safer driver does it.

 

TFT

[Rob S]

Usually if a car is untaxed and being used it is more than likely that it is also uninsured.

[sameagle]

"More than likely uninsured", or "definitely uninsured"?

 

Remember that many things spoken by Politicians and journalists are nothing more than verbal bubble gum.

 

Don't get me started on Journalists, to mis-quote Gilbert and Sullivan, "Ah yes, the journalist, I've got them on my list!"

 

 

Sam the Eagle

[patdavies]

On one level this seems absolutely crazy how someone who is doing 35mph in a 30mph can be fined £525

TFT

 

OP wasn't fined £525 for exceeding the 30 mph limit by 5 mph, but for failing to supply details of the driver at the time contrary to s.172 of the RTA,

 

If he had acted on the paperwork when it arrived, he would have been fined £60

[orge]

OP wasn't fined £525 for exceeding the 30 mph limit by 5 mph, but for failing to supply details of the driver at the time contrary to s.172 of the RTA,

 

If he had acted on the paperwork when it arrived, he would have been fined £60

 

I understand what you are saying, but this offense is related to the original in the sense that it's purpose is to leverage motorists to provide the police with the necessary evidence to support a conviction. In that case, it should be representative of the original offense. A 10 fold increase in the financial repercussions seems very heavy handed - particularly for somebody who is struggling financially.

 

When you consider that the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police was only fined £350 for driving at 90mph in a 60mph zone. How can you justify a £525 fine for 35 mph in a 30mph zone and being disorganised/tardy with some paperwork? Indeed, even if it's presumed that I am being deliberately obstinate, have I really done that much harm to society?

 

I am happy for the court to cover it's costs, but this goes way beyond. If the fine doubled or even trippled the original amount and added on court costs it would be far more reflective - bearing in mind that the number of points gets doubled, as well.

 

I can see the motivation to dissuade motorists from trying to "dodge" their responsibilities, but I don't believe this is a fair judgement.

 

Thanks,

 

James

[Rob S]

When you consider that the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police was only fined £350 for driving at 90mph in a 60mph zone. How can you justify a £525 fine for 35 mph in a 30mph zone and being disorganised/tardy with some paperwork? Indeed, even if it's presumed that I am being deliberately obstinate, have I really done that much harm to society?

 

Unfortunately for you your punishment was for failing to disclose driver details and not for doing 35 in a 30.

 

What you have to do now is to look at how to deal with it. One option is to appeal against the sentence, another is to contact the court and inform them of your situation and ask for time to pay. Whatever option you chose you will need to take prompt action as time is not on your side.

[the_freedom_trail]

From a legal perspective, I accept that PatDavies is right; however, from a moral perspective it is the 'man' or the 'system' throwing its wait around yet again. In answer to the question of what harm has orge's behaviour done to society. I think the answer has to be very little.

 

Orge, have you ever read How to be Free? by Tom Hodgkinson - I thoroughly recommend it. He offers some excellent illustrations of how the slightly unorganised are punished for their conduct. I use to be one of them, now I have to operate like a robot just to avoid a fine or a penalty. It is getting to the stage where one cannot even go to the loo without being observed?!?!?! The peasants that issue these fines fail to acknowledge human error - occassionally somebody will drift over the speed limit, or make an illegal turn - there is no forgiveness - just another penalty.

 

Slightly off topic, I went to France in December with my girlfriend. I have been many times before but it was the first occassion I drove - I'm only 23. All the time we were there we did not have to pay for parking once, not once. It felt so strange just to arrive in the car, park and have no problems with paying or anything like that.

 

TFT

[the_freedom_trail]

"More than likely uninsured", or "definitely uninsured"?

 

Remember that many things spoken by Politicians and journalists are nothing more than verbal bubble gum.

 

Don't get me started on Journalists, to mis-quote Gilbert and Sullivan, "Ah yes, the journalist, I've got them on my list!"

 

 

Sam the Eagle

 

Accepted, but they should make this clear when the bounder their comments about - maybe then I wouldn't be left with the impression it is an opportunity to persuade people to tax their vehicles - I know a number still don't. It is like the chairman of the AA coming on to the BBC and saying that PPC's can enlist the use of baliffs - he neglects to mention that there has to be a court order first. Forgetting little facts is very convenient for the authorities sometimes.

 

TFT