Preforming Right Society

[sisternumber1]

Having locked horns with TV Licensing because no licence for Office and warehouse due to there not being a TV, and enforcing no watching using PCs, now we have a letter from the Performing Right Society Limited telling us that we require a Licence to listen to the radio or play any music at work. Now there are 4 or 5 of us at work at any one time, no we do not as a general rule play music, its too damned noisy most of the time. Should any one out there no the law, when do we have to have a licence. The letter says

 

"If your staff or customers are listening to music on your premises, played by any means from Live performance,through radio, TV,CD or via the internet, you need our Music Licence"

 

then there is a lot of bumpf about how it doesnt matter what country the music comes from its all controlled by them and then -

 

"If you do not play music or this is not a registered business address, please call us or email us at response@prsformusic.com, quoting the reference number along with the company name and address at the top of the letter, or as we may contact you again."

 

Now the only time I have ever heard of a licence being needed was for places like hotels and cafes and pubs - why are they now attacking very small businesses?

 

Any thoughts?

[sisternumber1]

it appears that we are infringing and should have a licence, and its prohibitivly expensive. The first thing that is going is the music on hold that our new phone system came with, its been disabled. Second I will be banning radios and CDs from the premises - I sometimes bring CDs in for quiet times when I am working on accounts - now I will take the accounts home and do them on PC there.

 

However this from their website so maybe I can make a case for not having to pay a fee:

 

Home offices within a private residence - for an individual working on their own in the home office or for people who are permanently resident at that address. However, if you have colleagues working with you (who do not live at the premises) or customers/clients coming into your home (and music is played at these times), PRS for Music would apply the relevant tariff.

Lone workers - workplaces with only one worker, where music is not made available to any visitors/customers coming onto the premises.

Personal Portable Devices - Where music is only used in the workplace by individual employees or workers solely by means of Personal Portable Devices (such as MP3 players) with headphones. Any music must only be audible to the employee or worker to whom the Personal Portable Device belongs through a headset attached to that device and not to any other individual in the workplace.

Edited February 11, 2009 by sisternumber1

[flyingdoc]

It would appear that should you be playing music on your business premesis, even the radio, you are liable to pay a PRS license.

 

Do I need a Music Licence?

[flyingdoc]

If you are using personal equipment IPOD etc you dont need a license

[hightail]

I think you can listen to music if you have headphones/earphones so it's ok to use an ipod or 'personal player' of some sort as long as no-one else can hear it.

 

I do agree with you that this has now become a tax which is being applied much further and wider than it should. I am on the committee of a village hall and we have to fork out in case a tape is played for a game of musical bumps at a child's birthday party.

[flyingdoc]

but then if you use personal equipment with headphones there is a health and safety issue to contend with - both with the volume of music being played and the fact that the wearer of the headphones may not hear warning shouts in case of emergency.

 

This is just another cynical way of extracting money from people. Its ridiculous. If you listen to the radio then the radio station are already paying the PRS for playing the song in the first place. How much advertising revenue is going to be lost to the radio if companies ban radio's playing so that they dont have to pay this license.

[borisbeaver]

In a nutshell,

 

If you use piped music or have televisions displaying broadcast material you need to have a PRS licence. You also need a TV licence of these are live feeds.

 

Listening to personal music devices is not covered.

[hightail]

We've tried arguing that we are exempt as the only parties in the village hall are private functions but they won't accept this.

[sisternumber1]

We as a micro business (small businesses are much bigger then we are) feel utterly besieged, we in the last few months have had the TV licence people telling us that we must have a licence as we are able to view on our PCs - finally took my word for it that no one does or would so do - then we get a VAT inspection almost totally out of the blue - didnt really mind that as on the whole my books are pretty good. Now out of the blue we are being targetted by the PRS. Cant bring myself to telephone them yet.

 

So much for working for a living - thinking of giving up:(

[mustang67]

What happens if it is a non music station ie news or chat?

My son works in a small garage and they have had a visit and were told that they had to tell customers to even turn there car radios off whilst in garage I KID YOU NOT!!

[sisternumber1]

What happens if it is a non music station ie news or chat?

My son works in a small garage and they have had a visit and were told that they had to tell customers to even turn there car radios off whilst in garage I KID YOU NOT!!

 

 

now why does that not suprise me! According to their website playing any music outside of your domestic surroundings to your own friends and family or in your car that other people - the public - can hear makes you liable to have a licence. So all those young things who will take a sound system to the park etc be warned you cant turn it on until you have purchased a licence. Oh and all those young things with there very loud cars are in need of a licence as well - do you think the PFR people will start to stop these cars and demand that they pay a licence fee?

 

Oh and what about when I am out with my grandchildren and they start to sing in public? (they do sometimes) thats a live performance:wink:

Edited February 11, 2009 by sisternumber1
sense

[stardust_john]

A lot of the local radio consumer shows have had this issue raised by small companies ringing in concerned for being pressured into buying these licenses. The agency involved can come across more like interrogators when they ring and apparantly they seem to also send agents out to listen.. One example was a taxi firm and another a garage to be told they had to pay for one or face fines.

[Splenius]

You don't have to give them information.

 

I wouldn't speak to them or allow them to enter my premises. Not that I would be trying to avoid paying the license if it is legally required. I would simply operate on the principle "You make my life difficult so I will make yours difficult".

[sisternumber1]

I telephoned them and they said OK you dont need a licence. Told them how many people work here, that members of the public do not come here as we are a web based business. Didnt lie, just told how it is! The TV licencing lot took far more persuading.

 

As Hotels, pubs and restaurants are going bust their income is going down - cant blame them for trying.

[Conniff]

We as a micro business (small businesses are much bigger then we are) feel utterly besieged, we in the last few months have had the TV licence people telling us that we must have a licence as we are able to view on our PCs - finally took my word for it that no one does or would so do - then we get a VAT inspection almost totally out of the blue - didnt really mind that as on the whole my books are pretty good. Now out of the blue we are being targetted by the PRS. Cant bring myself to telephone them yet.

 

So much for working for a living - thinking of giving up:(

 

You do not have to tell tv licensing anything, it is up to them to prove you are watching live television before they can demand anything, and they cannot enter your premesis without a court warrant.

 

You can watch television on your computers if you want as long as it is not live, so if you haven't got a television receiver card in the pc and an aerial on the roof then you can watch what you want ie bbc iplayer.

 

If you and your staff watch on line tv then let them carry on and when tvlicensing come near, turn up the volume so they can hear and then laugh at them through the window. (Oh, and don't forget the 'V' signs).

[aTaxiDriver64]

Inresting or worrying, but been on that site for a look and it seems i need a £44 licence to have the radio on in my taxi with customers in.

 

ataxidriver

[Annoying Twit]

I think you can listen to music if you have headphones/earphones so it's ok to use an ipod or 'personal player' of some sort as long as no-one else can hear it.

 

I do agree with you that this has now become a tax which is being applied much further and wider than it should. I am on the committee of a village hall and we have to fork out in case a tape is played for a game of musical bumps at a child's birthday party.

 

Surely for Musical Bumps etc. it would be cheaper to buy a CD of Royalty Free Music. We bought music for student use at my work, and it didn't cost too much. US$100 per CD or something like that.

[labrat]

ahh this explains why weve been banned from watching dvds and playing music at work, and why someone from managment went ballistic when there was music playing the other day

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Folks!

 

The Performing Rights Society are a complete and utter PITA.

 

It's self-defeating in any event, because the actions of this idiotic body is putting people off buying the very material these people claim to be trying to protect.

 

IMHO, there should be a complete ban on this nonsense for any Business that employs under, say, 500 people. Above that, any fees should be reasonable and supervised justly.

 

Small Businesses have enough to be getting on with these days without this additional level of interfering busy-body trivia and nause.

 

It's ripping the heart out of the workplace for many, for absolutely no good reason.

 

If there is not one already, then a petition at Number 10 on-line may be one way to voice our considerable irritation.

 

Perhaps keep it simple:

 

Dear Prime Minister,

 

Please impose an immediate and complete ban on all blurdy useless Red Tape that is currently pointed directly at Small Businesses.

 

Stamping on the little Acorns is not helpful if you ever want any to grow into Oak Trees.

 

You need new and strong Oak Trees, but without Acorns you'll be poop out of luck on the new Oak Tree front.

 

The Oak Trees of tomorrow will create employment for the Sheeple of tomorrow.

 

If the Sheeple have jobs, then they can pay Taxes.

 

If they can pay Taxes, then they can pay for the squillions of bailout number-money you recently felt it necessary to lavish on your mates the dull greedy bankers.

 

We do not understand why you felt the urge to reward them for their complete financial failure, but we assume you were Captain of our Destiny and knew what the feck you were doing.

 

In summary, dump the Red Tape, so we can spin around in our Hamster Wheels without obstruction to better pay the really big fat Taxes coming our way soon.

 

Love,

232,000 CAGGERS

Cheers,

BRW

Edited August 23, 2009 by banker_rhymes_with
typooo

[Conniff]

I would also say that they would like to hide the fact that not as many tracks are being sold today as before, (especially the 60s), because they are not offering what the masses want, in other words, crap.

 

Paul Gambaccini (one of the biggest in his day) said on tv not so long ago that in the 60s/70s if you sold 250,000 records you stood a chance of getting into the top twenty, not if you sell 25,000 you are guaranteed a No1.

 

Couple that with the price sticker on a cd now and that is one of the reasons people look for them on line, they don't like to be ripped off.

 

It must be an ex labour government minister who has joined the PRS club and is using the same tactics as labour do - 'A bonus for the first person who can think up a way to make some more money'.

 

Not so many years ago the BBC were charged £200 per music hour for playing records on air. It's probably 10 times that amount now, but they don't seem to realise that if the music wasn't played on air, no one would hear them so couldn't buy them.

[labrat]

and it winds me up, sorry but weve always had music at our place of employment, often at full volume as its not customer facing

[merlin100]

This is what they are doing to us.....

The firm I work for got a visit from them some months ago.

Result was a ban on radios etc.

There are ten of us that work there.

The older ones now know how to illegally download music to put on there mp3s, Ipods etc thanks to the rest of us.

Rip-off Britain stabs itself in the back once again!!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Rip-off Britain stabs itself in the ass once again!!

Next they'll lumber us with a Tax on Happy.

 

If you don't pay that, then abject misery will be enforced in the workplace by amazingly annoying, politically correct, gormless gimps with clipboards.

 

Pretty soon, we'll all have to wear identical grey workwear and carry a little red book around written by Chairman Brooon.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[hightail]

Surely for Musical Bumps etc. it would be cheaper to buy a CD of Royalty Free Music.

 

If only! We hire the hall out for kids parties so can't guarantee who plays what on their cd players.

 

In the past year the children's sports day committee have disbanded, the village Christmas lights have been stopped and 'Santa' no longer does his tour of the village. Running the village hall and playing field has become such an effort that I can see the committee folding under the weight of petty regulations. It used to be a thriving village with loads going on. The tax on happy has already happened.

[funkyparott]

Is the PRS appointed by the Government?

 

From what I have read, they are a self appointed group.

 

They state they collect revenue on behalf of recording artists. Is every single artist a member of their society?

 

Suppose I create music and want nothing to do with PRS, but still don't want people playing my music on the radio. How do I get my royalties collected?