Forgot Railcard = Fined. Can contest fine?

[dany]

Hi guys.

 

New to the forum here, so hello!

 

Im really angry tonight at Transpennine Express trains for their horrible attitude to me forgetting my railcard for a journey from Leeds to Manchester and back.

 

Bought 2 advance tickets for £4 each way 2 days ago for today's journey, and realised on the train that the railcard wasn't in my possession. When I handed my ticket to the conductor, as I am an honest person, I told him I had forgotten my railcard and was more than happy to pay the 30% extra that the railcard had saved me for the journey. He said no, and issued me with a £16 fine for the 1 leg of the journey. I said no chance, then gave him my details when he came back with some yellow slip giving me notice of the fine for having invalid ticket. I found out I can contest the fine, which I plan to.

 

Anyway when I got to Manc I went straight to ticket office to see if they could help me out with the return ticket as I did not want to receive another fine for the same cost (£16) as the conductor said the fine is only for the 1st leg of the journey and I would be fined again on the return leg if I didn't produce a valid ticket, ie purchase a brand new one for £16 in Manchester and use that.

 

I wasn't prepared to purchase another one, ticket office refused to help me so I got on train and hoped for the best. Diff conductor, and he didnt ask for railcard, so avoided fine on the way back.

 

So now I am back home, with my railcard, tickets I used for journey today and a £16 fine with a letter to send off within 7 days to somewhere in Portsmouth.

 

It was an honest mistake by myself, and I respect a) conductor has a job to do, and b) the requirements for using such tickets, but his attitude towards me was horrible and I even told him about no railcard before he even opened his mouth.

 

Is it likely I will avoid fine if I send photocopy of railcard and used tickets with this letter about my fine?

 

I hope so!

[RichardM]

You might not want to hear this but:

 

Conductor on your outward journey was correct in his actions. Primary condition in order to be entitled to reduction in fare with a railcard is that it must be PRODUCED, whenever a ticket is used for travel at the reduced fare rate. Failure to produce the railcard will result in the matter being treated as if no ticket was held and the Standard Single Fare being charged. That's in the Terms and Conditions contained in the application form that you signed when you applied for the card.

 

The only possible cause of action would be to contact Transpinine Customer Services, enclosing copies of the tickets issued and a copy of the railcard, together with a copy of the Penalty Fare Notice. They are unlikely to cancel the Penalty Fare Notice, but they may (no guarantees)offer travel vouchers towards the cost of another journey, as a gesture of goodwill, if you can show them that you have paid the outstanding amount.

 

I would suggest that the letter makes no reference to the return journey at all, since the reality is that the outward conductor did his job, the return one did you a favour, so don't drop him in it, just to show how "nasty" the outward conductor was.

 

In the meantime, don't ignore the PFN, because it will first incur additional charges so you end up paying a lot more than £16, and ultimately can end up in a visit to the Magistrates Court and a fine.

[dany]

You might not want to hear this but:

 

Conductor on your outward journey was correct in his actions. Primary condition in order to be entitled to reduction in fare with a railcard is that it must be PRODUCED, whenever a ticket is used for travel at the reduced fare rate. Failure to produce the railcard will result in the matter being treated as if no ticket was held and the Standard Single Fare being charged. That's in the Terms and Conditions contained in the application form that you signed when you applied for the card.

 

The only possible cause of action would be to contact Transpinine Customer Services, enclosing copies of the tickets issued and a copy of the railcard, together with a copy of the Penalty Fare Notice. They are unlikely to cancel the Penalty Fare Notice, but they may (no guarantees)offer travel vouchers towards the cost of another journey, as a gesture of goodwill, if you can show them that you have paid the outstanding amount.

 

I would suggest that the letter makes no reference to the return journey at all, since the reality is that the outward conductor did his job, the return one did you a favour, so don't drop him in it, just to show how "nasty" the outward conductor was.

 

In the meantime, don't ignore the PFN, because it will first incur additional charges so you end up paying a lot more than £16, and ultimately can end up in a visit to the Magistrates Court and a fine.

Hi Richard.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my initial post.

 

I today sent off a letter along with photocopy of railcard/PFN and ticket to the address at the bottom fo the PFN. I didn't include money for the fine as I have attemped to explain my case and how I feel there ought to be measures in place for people to prove their innocence in these situations!

 

I'm not expecting much back, and assume I will still have to pay the fine in full, but it's worth a shot, right!?

 

Anyway - is the next course of action for me to expect them to write back saying that they have decided to keep the fine in place and for them to give me a further 7 days to pay it or something?

 

Cheers again.

[RichardM]

No problem at all Dany. It is worth asking, but it is unlikely that they will cancel a correctly issued panalty fares notice. However, if you don't ask, you don't get so no harm in trying.

 

I would still suggest that once you've paid it, contact Transpinine Customer Relations as plead your case with them as a regular customer. It's not likely they will do anything with the PF outstanding, but if they can see that you have accepted that it was your mistake and you've accept it and have learnt from it, they may offer you something towards your next journey.

 

Customer Relations

First TransPennine Express

ADMAIL 3878

Manchester

M1 9YB

[dany]

No problem at all Dany. It is worth asking, but it is unlikely that they will cancel a correctly issued panalty fares notice. However, if you don't ask, you don't get so no harm in trying.

 

I would still suggest that once you've paid it, contact Transpinine Customer Relations as plead your case with them as a regular customer. It's not likely they will do anything with the PF outstanding, but if they can see that you have accepted that it was your mistake and you've accept it and have learnt from it, they may offer you something towards your next journey.

 

Customer Relations

First TransPennine Express

ADMAIL 3878

Manchester

M1 9YB

Thanks very much, Richard!

 

I will wait until I hear back from the letter I sent off today. I expect to have to pay it, so when they write back saying that I have to pay it I will do so immediately. Then I shall contact that address there.

 

I appreciate your help, thanks a lot