Hello & turned the tables on Southwark

[sparkeyrjp]

Hi All just found this most interesting forum , thought you might like this

 

I have pasted these posts from another forum I frequent

 

1/

There is a new system of paying to park on London streets, and I notice it is catching on elsewhere.

Gone are parking meters, and pay and display ticket machines, to pay to park now, a phone call to an automated system is required.

 

The first step is to register phone number, car reg. number and payment card details, once done, a phone call and a pin number is all that is required to pay to park, a text confirms payment is ok, then if set up, an email is sent to provide proof of payment and receipt.

Simple isn’t it ?…….. Well no!

I started using this system in the Westminster area and it seemed ok, Westminster having a help option in the phone system where you could speak to a PERSON!!

 

I then registered to use a similar system in Southwark, that is where it all went wrong,

I set up all required details, attempted to pay to park using the phone, the call dropped out right at the last moment and I did not get a text message, so I called again and tried to find a help option to speak to a “customer service agent “ no such option, so I had no idea whether or not I had paid, so taking no chance I went through the process again, this time I did get a confirmation text,

Later when I checked for a receipt, yup you guessed it, I have paid £16 twice for the same vehicle, parking in the same spot, at the same time

 

Went through all the phone options listed for Southwark, no chance, you have to write to the parking office and ASK for a refund .A week now no reply to a recorded delivery letter,

 

I think the next step will to mirror the parking ticket system and charge double and threaten civil action

 

So a warning, be very careful when using pay by phone to park

 

 

2/

I wrote to London Borough of Southwark asking for a refund of the £16.20 over paid ,I received nothing in reply , no acknowledgement ,refund nowt

 

So in a second letter I doubled the amount owing to £32.40 citing cost of time dealing with the matter, recorded postage etc , and giving them 7 days to reply ,( are you following my logic ) and again not a peep from them ,

 

So today a County Court summons has landed on their desks ,

 

They now have to defend their inaction in the County Court,

 

The whole process was a doddle , all done online

 

 

 

3/

Supprise Supprise , just received a letter from Southwark saying the refund is now in process, but only £16.20 ,I have told them too late meet me in court and it is £32.40 plus £25 court fees

 

It's worth the £25 just to watch them squirm

 

 

 

They have credited £16.20 back to me but not the extra for "post and extras"

 

But have failed to answer the County Court claim within the required 14 days , so the next job is to apply for a judgement by default:-D:-D:-D:-D

Edited December 2, 2008 by saintly_1
removal of link

[crem]

Love it.

 

Hope you get the default judgement. You will of course post back with progress I hope.

[sparkeyrjp]

You betcha ,

And the Daily Mail , Sun .Mirror , LBCs James Whale , I am sooooooooo looking forward to this :D:D

[sparkeyrjp]

Southwark had until 3 December to reply to the claim , so far as of today 5th December I have heard nothing either by mail or online , (except for them to try to get under the wire by repaying ONLY the original £16.50). Having not been through this before , when or how will I know to continue with the action ? I have completed the online form asking for judgement by default up to the the moment of the final keystroke which will enter the claim

[lamma]

have you entered the claim now ?

[sparkeyrjp]

have you entered the claim now ?

 

Not yet ,so do I so it now ? just one key stroke is all that is needed

[freakyleaky]

Hit the button now! They are in default so go for it.

[crem]

Yes get it done.

 

We're all waiting for the next episode.

[green_and_mean]

How can you make a claim when you have received the original money owed?

[sparkeyrjp]

As Southwark failed to answer the first two letters ,I have claimed for inconvenience ie trips to and from Post Office , recorded postage , parking etc , and by some strange coincidence it came to double the original amount just like a parking ticket :grin:

 

BTW default claim now submitted

Edited December 7, 2008 by sparkeyrjp
update

[crem]

How can you make a claim when you have received the original money owed?

 

Because sparkeyjrp had already issued a county court claim for a greater value which Southwark have simply chosen to ignore and not reply to.

 

If every person who parked in contravention, ignored all council letters and then simply payed the original fine when court papers were served, would you think that was alright too?

[green_and_mean]

If every person who parked in contravention, ignored all council letters and then simply payed the original fine when court papers were served, would you think that was alright too?

 

Parking fines are governed by legislation and have strict timeframes. You would not expect to get a PCN for £80 with no date of payment then a few days later a letter stating you now owe £200 because they hadn't heard from you and got bored of waiting. The Council did reply they paid they money owed, if he wishes to sue the Council for £16 for writing a letter then that claim is not the same as the original claim. He has now accepted £16 so carrying on with the original claim is fraudulent unless he has reduced the amount claimed.

[crem]

They paid the £16 AFTER court papers had been issued. Therefore they have simply ignored an official court summons. Can we all do that if it suits us?

[sparkeyrjp]

My claim may appear frivolous , in fact , it was only the County Court action that prodded the parking departmant into action , It HAS cost me time and money chasing this refund , and I see no reason why Southwark should not pay for my time and expence ,

 

Is that unreasonable

[My Real Name]

Is that unreasonable

It may appear reasonable to you, but my guess is that you are on a hiding to nothing.

 

On what point(s) of law are you making your claim?

[Steve__M]

Whether the payment has been made, and whether the remainder of the claim is unreasonable, surely the claimant is entitled to their court costs, and would need to continue the claim till such costs had been repaid or judgement obtained ???

[Howard0181]

If you can support your expenses then the Court will back you.

 

In this instance the Council's option is only to apply to the Court to have the Summons set aside. It will cost them more to do that then pay the judgement.

 

My guess is that they will pay you.

[Guest Ting]

I actually agree that there was no basis for the claim. The idea of doubling the amount to £32-40 was ludicrous - even if i do understand how they put you to inconvenience.

 

Southwark, on the other hand, appear to have been plain stupid. All they had to do was defend and i think they would have won once they had paid £16-20 before any hearing. They chose to ignore and default, stooopid, lazy, arrogant? Who knows.

-

[green_and_mean]

I actually agree that there was no basis for the claim. The idea of doubling the amount to £32-40 was ludicrous - even if i do understand how they put you to inconvenience.

-

 

Not often that we agree, lol!

 

OP Your actual logic is flawed anyway a PCN does not double it remainds the same until charge certificate stage. I assume you offered Southwark the option of paying you £8 if they paid in 14 days?

The origin of this site was to campaign against banks charging stupid amounts for letters and phone calls it would seem a bit backward for consummers to start doing the same. I was on the phone for 20 mins last week as I had been overharged on my mobile bill maybe I should bill them £30 for my time?!

[sparkeyrjp]

I appear to have set off a debate ,

below is the letters written and replies in order of posting and receipt

1/ First email requesting refund

 

Query:

You will note from your records that i have been charged twice for parking

at Zone 1702 at 08.08 today. This is because after i had made the first

attempt it did not confirm that the parking request had been accepted.

Please could you credit me for one of these amounts as it is an obvious

error for which I apologies.

Please could you let me have your decision assoon as possible.

 

2/ The reply

Good Afternoon,

 

We offer RingGo on behalf of the car park operators, Southwark and bank the

parking money directly to their bank account. To apply for a refund you will

need to apply in writing to them at the below address:

 

Parking Shop,

364 Old Kent Road,

London,

SE1 5AA

 

 

Kind Regards

 

I then wrote

Reef enclosed invoices nos.

2008092908XXXXXXXXXXXXX

2008092908XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Vehicle reg XXXXXXXX Blue Citroen

Parking location

Marshalsea Rd

Zone 1702

Sirs

You will see from the enclosed invoices I have paid twice for the same session of parking.

This due to the first attempt at telephone payment appearing to be terminated prematurely, and as I did not receive a confirmation text message, I was unsure if the payment had been processed.

I therefore made a second telephone payment call, after which I received the conformation text.

It was only when I logged on to my account to print a receipt that I found I have been charged twice for the same parking session

I therefor request a full refund of £16.40, being the amount over paid

Might I also suggest a customer service number be placed on parking ticket machines, or option to speak to a customer service person added to the telephone payment system

 

Yours

 

I waited over 4 weeks for a reply

 

I then sent

 

Parking Shop supervisor

FINAL NOTICE

Further to my communication 29.09.08,received and signed for at your office . Copies of which enclosed

You have failed to either acknowledge the communication or refund overpayment ,

The amount outstanding is now £32.80 , this amount includes loss of interest , time taken to deal with matter and cost of recorded postage ,

You have 7 days to respond to this communication , should you fail to respond , a summons will be issued in the County Court for recovery of the full amount outstanding ,

Upon receiving judgement the matter will be put into the hands of a civil recovery agent ,

 

I then waited about 2/3 weeks and then started a small claims action

On the day the court action was deemed to have been served I received a letter from the parking department supervisor ,in that letter I was told to contact RingGo to request and arrange refund , that contradicts the first reply from RinGo

I then wrote AGAIN , sending copies of all correspondence and emails , pointing out that as departments within Southwark cannot agree what is the correct mechnisim for refunds , I intend to continue with the action ,

That letter remains unanswered

I have parking receipts , copies of all recorded delivery postage and confirmation of signed delivery

I have given Southwark fair opportunity to clear up this matter

 

It has only the court action that has moved them

Edited December 8, 2008 by sparkeyrjp

[electron99]

In another thread englisgsummer made it quite clear that when Perky et al take a motorist to court, extra amounts will be claimed for expenses etc.

 

Why cannot a motorist do this against a council or PPC ?

[My Real Name]

The OP is now going to court for an amount that is above and beyond the original overpaid fee, which has since been refunded.

 

The extra amounts that Perky et al. have been awarded, unless I am mistaken, relate to the court costs, not to costs incurred by them up to that point.

 

Were this to go to court, I would imagine that the defence would be that no debt or liability exists, and that the original matter was settled equitably.

 

Perhaps the OP could provide some examples of cases whereby although an original debt had been discharged, there remained the question of outstanding losses incurred.

[green_and_mean]

Surely if you paid the money to Ringo it is they that owe you the money anyway not Southwark?

[patdavies]

Parking fines are governed by legislation and have strict timeframes. You would not expect to get a PCN for £80 with no date of payment then a few days later a letter stating you now owe £200 because they hadn't heard from you and got bored of waiting. The Council did reply they paid they money owed, if he wishes to sue the Council for £16 for writing a letter then that claim is not the same as the original claim. He has now accepted £16 so carrying on with the original claim is fraudulent unless he has reduced the amount claimed.

 

This has nothing whatsoever to do with parking fines - which, as you say, have their own legal framework.

 

This is a civil claim for damages and restitution of over-payment for parking. The same would apply for over-payment of anything to the Council. Focussing on the parking element in this is a red herring.

 

Once a summons is issued, it cannot be satisfied by payment of the original alleged debt - the question of court costs at least must be resolved; never mind the claimant's justifiable costs in bringing the claim.

[patdavies]

Surely if you paid the money to Ringo it is they that owe you the money anyway not Southwark?

 

Not if RinGo are acting as agents for the Council and are therefore collecting on their behalf.