Harassment by MBNA

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Hi Angel, use that address if you want. MBNA collect telephone numbers from anywhere to harrass so if we all collect contact details for the purposes of contacting them, then I don't see a problem with that.

 

Steven, I am still looking through the legislation. I haven't disappeared, I've just had a few weeks away from everything so didn't get much chance, but am back on the case now.

[steven4064]

Hi FBR

 

No hurry, glad to have you back

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Does anyone know how MBNA get hold of friends and neighbours phone numbers?

 

I was thinking perhaps that a customer/victim may be using their phones to call MBNA, but I don't see why anyone would do that except perhaps if your phone went dead and you popped next door to use your neighbours or if your mobile died and you use your mates.

 

The other way would be if they look up your neighbour in the phone book. If that is the only way they could have got the number, then that in itself may be violating various acts to even greater heights.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Off topic, but still related to MBNA is OFT Enforcement action on Unfair Relationships. Basically it allows an agreement to be challenged if it is unfair to the borrower. I would suggest hiking interest rates when you can't clear you balance to avoid them, and interaction between these provisions and the Data Protection Act may be useful in restricting how MBNA may collect and use phone numbers. A bit loose perhaps, but in conjunction with Part 8 of Consumer Credit Act and other legislation may put MBNA on very shaky ground.

[Viscount Stair]

I agree that raising interest rates when aware (or ought to be aware) of financial difficulties is Unfair Relationships territory. OFT guidance (sorry but don't have chapter and verse to hand right now) also indicates that it is potentially in UTCCR territory as well.

 

OFT guidance on Unfair Relationships indicates that breaches of legislation generally fall within the Unfair Relationships test (including ss77-79, UTCCR). I don't think they mention DPA specifically but I don't see why it should be any different in principle.

 

How Unfair Relationships will be applied in practice is - as far as I know - untested yet.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

I've just emailed the OFT asking for advice on interest rate hiking by MBNA. There must be something in the CCA and its supplementals that prevents arbitrary hiking by a lender. Especially when the lender traps you in when you have a high balance or if they offer you 0% on a BT then hike it straight after.

 

Will let you know what they say if anything.

 

Also found this in the Consumer Credit (Advertisements) regs...

The OFT is unlikely to take enforcement action where a trader has acted in good faith and with proper regard to the law and relevant guidance. Thus genuine misinterpretations which are not designed to mislead consumers and are not capable of causing detriment will be viewed differently from clear and deliberate breaches which do mislead or harm consumers. Where appropriate, we will take enforcement action further to our objective to make markets work well for consumers.

 

I'd say that MBNA do mislead and harm consumers deliberately and that it should be considered clear breaches. So a bit of enforcement would be nice here!

 

Anyway that's it for my hijacking this thread about interest rates! Back to harassment legislation.

[Viscount Stair]

However, even if the OFT are too supine to take enforcement action in practice, their guidance is potentially quite useful ammunition in muddying the waters a bit.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

I may well quote these regulations in my next p*** off letter to them!

 

So far they have avoided contacting me, and only send me the odd letter now. But I did receive a text saying that I should call them so that they can help me!! That's after a letter which also said they can help me, which arrived after a letter that said they may CCJ me if I don't pay NOW!

 

I keep whistling the Muppet Show theme tune every time I get correspondence from them!

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Steven, I've noticed loads of threads about harassment with different advice on dealing with it given in each one, albeit with a lot of crossover. Would it be a good idea to have a single sticky thread with a list of things to do, particularly under the MBNA forum as they seem to be the worst of all evils?

 

It could contain the advice from each existing thread and also provide links to other hot threads like this one where discussion is taking place.

 

What do you think?

[steven4064]

That is the idea of this thread and why it is stuck in the MBNA forum. And it is here for the very reason that MNBA are the worst.

[fleeced_by_rbos]

Got a reply from OFT rather quickly. I've posted it on my own thread about interest rate hikes so as to avoid polluting this thread any more.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/160210-extortionate-interest-rate-after-2.html#post1907982

[fleeced_by_rbos]

That is the idea of this thread and why it is stuck in the MBNA forum. And it is here for the very reason that MNBA are the worst.

 

Yeh good point. I was just thinking that many other threads seem to carry more info on what people should do. But then again, once I've hunted through the legislation I can put that in here and then perhaps we can grab everything else and make a single post of "this is what to do about MBNA".

[steven4064]

Yes. Maybe there ought to be harassment threads on other forums too - Cap1 springs to mind.

[Viscount Stair]

Oh yes, Cap1 do spring to mind.

[gazbolts73]

Yet another tactic! I received a postcard from them today! A lovely picture of a snowy backdrop..nothing to say it is from MBNA..just saying 'hiya Gary we will call you week commencing 12th January 2009'.....needless to say it was ripped up & thrown in the bin.

 

But the worst tactic of all! They contacted my sister to see if a live there!! how the hell they got her address, she lives 45 mile from me!! i don't know.....these people are bordering on serious harrassment!!!!

[Viscount Stair]

"Bordering on"? I think permanently moved in with would be more like it.

 

I got one of those postcards too. I kept mine as evidence.

 

It formed part of a long complaint I made to MBNA. Although, in one sense, I might as well have saved my breath for blowing on my porridge, it forms part of the record.

 

I have now had a reply from Ms Powell much of which would be familiar to other Caggers. She confirmed I had indeed been sent a postcard (good, so I didn't imagine it then) and also confirmed that no-one would be visiting (I hadn't supposed they would). She didn't respond to the point I made about postcards being in breach of the DCGs but I don't suppose she thinks they apply to subsidiaries of Maryland corporations.

[steven4064]

We have actually been told by MBNA employees that UK law doesn't apply to them because they are an American company. Shows how much we still have to learn

[fleeced_by_rbos]

This is rhetorical: when will those morons at MBNA learn that they are subject to UK law as MBNA Europe Bank Ltd is registered in England and Wales as a UK company and has a UK credit license.....dumb as f*** or arrogant - not sure which.....perhaps both......stupid, stupid, it makes you want to poke them in the eye with needles to wake them up out of their little world......sorry folks rant over.

[Viscount Stair]

Hardly original but here is another piece of ammunition:

 

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Moneybox | Warning over 'bank' phone fraud

[AA99]

My biggest single creditor is my AA99 v MBNA Acc.1 , been trying to correspond with them for over 6 months now so there are a lot of charges and extortionate interest on there by now, no payments made, and have just received the most threatening letter yet. Their conduct is disgraceful

[steven4064]

Let's get the claim under way.

[Viscount Stair]

The following may be of interest:

 

09.05.08 - Compensation PFHA 1997

 

It is a reproduction of the text of an article by Michael Salter and Chris Bryden (both barristers in 2 Gray's Inn Square Chambers) that was first published in the New Law Journal on 9th May 2008 (Vol 158, No. 7320 pages 652-653).

 

The authors' conclusion reads as follows:

 

At present the assumption when approaching damages for anxiety and distress for harassment is likely to be that nominal damages only will be awarded. However there is scope for argument that the broader basis of the statutory tort of harassment takes the quantification of damages out of the general rules applicable to personal injury and is more correctly identified with Vento-type bands of awards for injury to feelings in discrimination cases. Whilst at present there is no authority directly on this point it is hoped that a suitable case allowing for a challenge along these lines will soon present itself.

 

The case referred to in that conclusion (Chief Constable of West Yorkshire v Vento [2003] IRLR 102) was a Disability Discrimination Act case in an employment context but provided for three brackets for assessing damages for injury to feelings (separate from other heads of damages). The three brackets were £500-£5,000 for even the most minor cases, £5,000-£15,000 for more serious cases and £15,000-£25,000 for the most serious cases.

 

Although there appears to be very little direct authority on the quantum of PfHA damages, the authors cite the Criminal Injuries Compensation tariff, a Pensions Ombudsman case in which £1,000 was awarded for anxiety, a personal injury case involving anxiety following a car accident in which £3,000 was awarded and the two golden oldie holiday cases: Jarvis v Swan Tours Ltd [1973] QB 233 and Jackson v Horizon Holidays [1975] 1 WLR 1468.

 

Uprating Jarvis for 36 years of inflation produces a figure of £1,138 and uprating Jackson for 34 years of inflation produces a figure of £3,160.

 

Whilst I don't think that the authors had debt collection harassment cases in mind, I would respectfully adopt their reasoning that "... where the harassment is ongoing, the risk of paying financial compensation may have the effect of “focusing the mind” of the harasser and causing him to cease his harassing actions."

 

I also think (for what it is worth - and I would be interested in others' views) that there is a potentially strong argument that PfHA damages against MBNA and their ilk should fall in the £1,000-£3,000 range.

 

Whether that is enough to "focus the mind" is another matter.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Viscount Stair
errant sunglasses again

[citizenB]

Yet another tactic! I received a postcard from them today! A lovely picture of a snowy backdrop..nothing to say it is from MBNA..just saying 'hiya Gary we will call you week commencing 12th January 2009'.....needless to say it was ripped up & thrown in the bin.

 

But the worst tactic of all! They contacted my sister to see if a live there!! how the hell they got her address, she lives 45 mile from me!! i don't know.....these people are bordering on serious harrassment!!!!

 

Hmmm, you shouldnt dispose of anything that can be classed as ammunition.

[dashforcash]

I initially advised MBNA back in September 2008 that I would only correspond in writing but the phone calls continue. I have an electronic fax provider so I simply fax them to advise how many calls have been received on that day and reiterate my request not to call me. Falls on deaf ears. Yesterday after receiving seven calls I faxed to advise that I had lost patience with them and that if after 24 hours from receipt of my fax I would report them to British Telecom who provide my line. To my mind and I have yet to investigate this further these calls constitute a nuisance which I am sure is contrary to the Telecommunications Act.

[dashforcash]

My BT line is already set for Anonymous Call Reject - block incoming calls from withheld numbers but BT also offer:

 

"Choose to Refuse - block particular numbers from getting through to you."

Website not working so I cannot see how this system works or the charges.

 

Has anybody else used it?