Oft Test Case Results: Stand By

[adamski]

Yes but we can't claim retropectively can we?

[SPROUTY]

Fred,

 

your case is likely to be stayed until January, by which time we should know the results of any appeal on UTCCR. You may need to amend your POC accordingly, but thats allowed.

 

Adamski can you expand a bit ?

[adamski]

New claims can't be brought after judgement? I maybe wrong thats my interpretation of it anyway.

[pt2537]

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/oft-oct-judgment.pdf

 

heres the judgment

[Lula]

it has been so long now, but what did the actual t & c's say, didn't they say penalty?

[SPROUTY]

ADAMSKI

 

If OFT appeal penalties and win then they will be back on the agenda.

 

On the other hand

 

If Banks appeal UTCCR and win we would have to find another rout to claim.

 

Its still up in the air !

 

however

 

at the moment it is IMPORTANT that any one who has not registered their claim, do so, as time is frozen in terms of the six year statute whilst the case progresses through the courts. Once its over any would be claiments may find they have lost 18 months of charges due to their lethargy in getting the claim in.

 

Thats my take on it

[skyelet]

okay so basically, all claims are still being stayed until january ???

 

looks like im gonna have to get a hardship letter template in place then coz theres no way i can wait any longer....

[adamski]

having read through the lines of the judgement, I feel this is about it being a penalty and it looks like its down to each banks T & Cs which makes it very complicated,

 

but I still feel this is really in the banks favour, looks like Lloyds, Clydesdale and RBOS are still under consideration on the penalty issue but the rest the judge has ruled are not penalties according to their T&Cs I am sure he will rule in favour of the others as well, our only hope now is the UTCCR issue, but somehow I have my doubts on that as well.

[SPROUTY]

I assume the judgment on UTCCR has been reserved

 

Frustrating but I will be suprised if having found the modern T&Cs comming under UTCCR, he finds the old stff exempt from UTCCR !

 

Otherwise why did the Bank's scramble to change their T& Cs on the run in to the test case ? (in Nov 2007).

 

 

Thats my opinion

[Thailand]

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/oft-oct-judgment.pdf

[Thailand]

Sorry, didn't see pt's link.

[adamski]

So it looks like each case has to judged on its merits i.e. down to individual T&Cs so methinks all is not lost on the penalties issue.

[emmaf01]

So what does this mean for people, in practical terms?

 

My claim is with the Halifax, with a recent request for hardship. I can't get a peep out of them, they won't even tell me if they have my hardship application! Is all lost- tried reading the judgement but my brain doesn't seem to be firing on all cylinders... Must be the shock of CAG being under threat!

[sytra]

Does anybody else think that the banks might win this by now claiming they cant afford to repay any charges (penalties) in this present climate and so leaving joe public out of pocket yet again?

 

Sytra

[ncf355]

No,

 

this would not be a valid excuse

 

Plenty of people being sued by the banks that cant afford it yet the courts still press on them.

[nevos]

What if (when) the banks come out on top, could they reclaim money paid on earlier claims. Reading the judgment above IMO, doesn't look good for claimants.

[tifo]

no, they can't. Because they never actually offer you the charges back but a 'goodwill' payment equal to that amount, to resolve your complaint without admitting anything.

 

if the case goes our way, we can say the actualt charges have never been paid ....

[psm]

Having read through the judgement it seems to me that "Matron" has come to the rescue of the poor boys in the city. Evidently a spade is not a spade when it comes to the banks. I don't hold out much hope of seeing a plugged nickle from the banks. I certainly feel that this is a slap in the face for the common man and then to add insult to injury our taxes are going to be used to rescue the incompetent bankers so they can continue to fleece us with their punative charges, my hasn't Labour come a long way!!. I never ever thought I would say this but I think we need a revolution to redress the balance.

[nevos]

Yep, thats the way it looked to me. The last thing they will want to happen is a run on bank charges.

 

I think it is chambolic and a major shake up is needed including, the FSA who sat back and watched Northern Rock lending out 125% to folks.

 

The chairman of the RBS has walked with 500K pension, nice work if you can get it.

[psm]

how sad are we to allow this to happen, our vote seems worthless, they (the bankers) seem to do what they want when they want with impunity and prosper into the bargain

[nevos]

British public will normally allow concrete to drop on top of them where as the French would be in the streets, blockading the ports and setting fire to sheep..we just keep moaning and groaning about everything then, swallow it.

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

posted by nevos.

 

The chairman of the RBS has walked with 500K pension, nice work if you can get it.

 

It's actually £579.000 per annum up to over £8m as I understand it. And he just slips quietly into the shadows with no apology.

 

Then Chair of the BBA says yes banks have to take risks but not big ones:eek: (So risks are acceptable then?)

 

Just make sure the risks are small? Not £12bn ABN Amro, Not £12bn rights issues to the shareholders. Just £1.4bn Mis-sold PPI policies and a stack of unfair charges to boot.

 

Angry JUST A TAD:evil:

 

If I am now as a taxpayer a shareholder in RBS to the tune of 63% should I be writing to myself asking for over £20k in mis-sold PPI to be refunded to myself copying the letter to countless millions of other folks? and threatening to go to the FOS about myself or threatening me to take me to court?

 

Lets hope the FSA don't have my address as I cannot afford a big fine at the moment.

 

keep at them;)

 

aa

[Bookworm]

the French would be in the streets, blockading the ports and setting fire to sheep...

To be fair, we usually eat the sheep once it's cooked.

[angel_1]

To be fair, we usually eat the sheep once it's cooked.

 

 

sorry but at this time of the evening , these few last posts were funny, thank you

 

well, i kind of think we are a little too stuffed but who knows what this mad world next brings to us

 

so the advice is get your claims in to the bank, get their reply , then file to court and wait for jan 09

 

if then we may get some money or not

 

i think some of the banks are very happy this appears to them its gone their way so is there really any hope or point in us actually sending in our claims even now?

 

im not sure whats best to do if for those of us havent yet put in our claims at this moment of time

 

too late off to bed catch up tomorrow and see for any updates thanks maz:confused:

[Bookworm]

Well, they should be happy, this has very much gone their way, yes.

 

If the charges (past and present T&Cs) had been found to be penalties, then the banks would have had to refund every one of them in full to every customer they had ever charged, quite possibly without the customer actually having to do the legwork (although that's a stretch, past history shows that we are still supposed to ask for it or risk losing it altogether, see endowment policies ). Can you imagine?

 

With the charges not penalties, we now have to rely solely on the UTCCR and come under the umbrella of the OFT deciding on whether the charges are fair or not. Ok, so indications are good that the OFT WILL find the charges unfair, but this means that consumers still will have to go and ask the bank for their charges back and that the banks will then manage to convince a good few people that they only have to repay part of the charges, altogether the banks will save a huge amount of money that way.

 

My feeling is that we peasants have been slapped back down in our place by the judiciary, how dare we have taken the law and used it to gain justice in the first place instead of letting our betters decide for us? Yeah well, if it hadn't been for us peasants, the OFT would have been quite happy to carry on letting the banks fleecing us until the cows came home. Oh, they can say now that they want to make sure consumers get the best deal and what not, but some of us do remember that if you were to go to the FOS and/or OFT 3 years ago, the response would have been quite different.

 

Sorry, I digress.

 

So yes, the advice is still to get your claims in, but only use the UTCCR argument.