Robinson Way, Sainsburys 2 Acc

[overdone]

Had a response from Robinson Way about my cca request for two sainsbury accounts. They have typed a notice of assignment on their own headed paper (RW} to inform me both acc's are assigned to them. Surely they should be on Sainsbury's headed paper? This is the letter they also enclosed.

 

Dear Overdone,

With reference to your recent request, please find enclosed a Notice of Assignment as requested.

We have requested an agreement from Sainsbury's and we will forward these to you as soon as we receive them.

I hope this information is sufficient. If you require any further assistance do not hesitate to contact myself on 0161 830 2412.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Rebecca Cooper

Bought Debt Correspondence Manager

[Pinky69]

The Notice of Assignment should have come directly to you from Sainsbury's before they passed it on to a DCA and it is supposed to be sent by recorded delivery. Banks and financial institutions don't bother with what is "supposed" to happen but I would tell them that you have no proof that Robinson Way has any legal right to contact you in connection with this account until a Notice of Assignment has been sent to you by Sainsbury's and delivered in the prescribed manner.

[overdone]

The Notice of Assignment should have come directly to you from Sainsbury's before they passed it on to a DCA and it is supposed to be sent by recorded delivery. Banks and financial institutions don't bother with what is "supposed" to happen but I would tell them that you have no proof that Robinson Way has any legal right to contact you in connection with this account until a Notice of Assignment has been sent to you by Sainsbury's and delivered in the prescribed manner.

Thank you for that. Today I had another letter.

 

Dear Overdone,

 

Following your request, we have today asked for a copy of the agreement or document to verify that you are liable to pay the amount due.

 

Your account has been placed on a temporary delay pending receipt of this documentation and we will contact you again in due course.

Thank you for your cooperation.

yours faithfully,

Collections Manager

Edited September 26, 2008 by overdone
typo

[PGH7447]

if its anything like my old sainsburys card you will be in for a long wait:D

[overdone]

Image of sainsburys - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Does this have all the prescribed terms to make it legally enforceable? I had two of these, the same for my two accounts. Also, the terms and conditions are not the originals and show those in force at my later address.

Edited October 28, 2008 by overdone

[Pinky69]

Too small to read. If this is what the document is really like, it's illegible and that alone makes it unenforceable.

[overdone]

Too small to read. If this is what the document is really like, it's illegible and that alone makes it unenforceable.

 

You are quite right, I checked the other one they sent and you cannot make either of them out apart from my handwritten details. The terms and conditions are not the ones I agreed to and I defaulted four years ago. What sort of letter should I write?

[overdone]

Dear Sirs,

 

I have not received a copy of the terms and conditions prevailing at the time and no statements to the alleged accounts. Also, the copy of the application form you have sent is illegible and as such unenforceable. Until such time as you fulfil all the requirements of the CCA, 1974 the alleged accounts remain in dispute. In addition, I have not received a Notice of Assignment from Sainsbury’s and therefor proof that Robinson, Way & Company Ltd, has any right to pursue payment on these alleged accounts.

 

A Notice of Assignment must come from the original creditor and be sent by recorded delivery. Until such time as I receive the required notices delivered in the prescribed manner, I will have no further correspondence with RW&Co or any other agency purporting to have been assigned the alleged debts.

 

Yours faithfully

Overdone

[citizenB]

Overdone, I had an account with GEMoney/Paypal.

 

The Notice of Assignment was sent by CL Finance. At no time did I receive any notice from GE Money. In fact I received just 1 letter from them saying I needed to pay £xx to be up to date. I have just been through my onesided correspondence and I havent even received a default notice (I do so hope they arent reading this )

 

The NOA from CL Finance was correctly produced on proper headed paper and they have actually been quite supportive. Even though I received no correspondence from GE Money, it would appear they advised CL that a payment arrangement was in place and that has been honoured.

[citizenB]

Overdone, you asked a question on my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/152498-response-trading-standards-re.html#post1796712

 

This is the definition of emendation. How it applies and if you could use it to your own advantage on this thread, I simply have no idea. I wonder if you were to ask perhaps, andyorch, pt2357 or surfaceagentx20 they might be able to help:)

 

 

 

emendation Definition

emen·da·tion (ē′men dā′s̸hən, -mən-; also em′en-, -ən-)

 

noun

1. the act of emending
   
2. correction or change made in a text, as in an attempt to restore the original reading
   

[overdone]

Despite sending the letter to RW in post 8, only today I recieved a begging letter from R way.

 

We write to remind you that payment is due.

As todays date the unpaid balance is set out above, We know you are determined to settle this account and your cooperation is appreciated.

 

Telephone us and pay using your credit or debit card, use the slip below to pay at any post office or bank, or send the slip and your payment to us.

Please pay as follows. £2.00 which must be paid by 23/11/08

 

(Former debt managment amount}

You can tell from the paperwork they sent me that their cca was illegible.

Edited November 19, 2008 by overdone
typo

[Pinky69]

They didn't have it on hold very long! When they start writing letters asking for payment without sending a proper credit agreement, they know they are on sticky ground. I like their mind-reading - "we know you would like to pay this" - not without a proper Notice of Assignment and proper agreement you wouldn't! Once an account is in dispute, I don't trade letters with them becuase they never read them. As soon as they ask for payment without proof of the debt or their right to collect it, I go straight to their complaints department.

[overdone]

Overdone, you asked a question on my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/152498-response-trading-standards-re.html#post1796712

 

This is the definition of emendation. How it applies and if you could use it to your own advantage on this thread, I simply have no idea.

 

Lord Sumner, speaking of the man who may wish to refer to the copy, concluded that ‘the Act promises him … a true copy, not a puzzle. He is to inspect it, not to recover the original by a process of conjectural emendation’ (at 807).

Given the document sent me by Sainsburys from RWay, you would have to puzzle and guess at what was being signed.

[citizenB]

I would agree with pinky, overdone. It looks as though they are going to ignore the content of your letter.

 

They are also ignoring OFT Guidelines by asking you to pay a debt with a debt ie a credit card.. ooops

 

If you feel the need to reply,

 

Dear sirs,

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Your letter dated XX XXXX XXXX indicates that you have no intention of attempting to resolve my queries.

 

I am therefore requesting your complaints procedures. I look forward to receiving your reply with this information within 14 days.

 

Etc,

[overdone]

I have had several begging letters from R.W and C Ltd so I thought I would post the latest.

 

Dear Overdone,

 

Due to Robinson Way (ex sainsburys cc/loan £7,081.xx

 

Ref XXXXXXXXX

 

FORMAL DEMAND FOR PAYMENT.

As we have now purchased the above debt we are authorised to recover the full amount due, quoted above. This is a formal notice of intended court action we intend to take unless you pay, or agree an arrangment to pay, the sum you owe.

 

If court action is taken and a court considers your failure to pay to be due to your refusal or neglect to pay, an order for rpayment may be made. If you fail to pay in accordance with a court payment order, the following may occur:

 

A process of enforcement by court officers

An order for deductions from your earnings

An unpaid court order may make future credit difficult to obtain

 

This debt will not go away - It makes sense to pay in full - now. You can pay by calling us with your credit or debit card. Alternatively you can refer to the payment instructions overleaf?

yours faithfully

[sillygirl1]

Write back and tell them the following

 

"This debt is unenforceable in court due to the fact that

 

1. The assignment MUST come from the Original Creditor

2. I have no obligation to pay unless you have the correct authority to collect and a properly executed original agreement with corresponding correctly executed assignment ecists.

3. The alleged debt cannot be substantiated by yourselves yet you continue to breach OFT guidelines

4. You ask me to pay an alleged debt with a credit card - this again is against OFT guidelines....

5. You stated that you would not collect on this alleged debt until the original agreement was provided - I have not had this therefore I need a copy of your complaints procedure at your earliest convenience as you have breached this agreement.

 

Have an unhappy Xmas and New Year as I will be complaining to the OFT and FSA about your breaches.

[Pinky69]

The letter is all "ifs" - another letter to put pressure on you when they have no more legal authority to collect the debt than fly in the air. This is the nuisance phase where they know they cannot collect but write threatening to eat your kids if you don't pay up. Once you have made a formal complaint, just stick it out and ignore them.

[postggj]

subbing

 

may i ask how old the agreement is

will be posting a thread soon on my brothers sainsburys card

[overdone]

subbing

 

may i ask how old the agreement is

will be posting a thread soon on my brothers sainsburys card

One opened in 1997, the other in 1998.

[overdone]

Dear Robinson Way,

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute.

On xxxxxxI wrote to Robinson Way requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied an illegible agreement which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document.

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40.

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

 

Yours sincerely

[overdone]

Settled for this letter.

 

Robinson Way and Company Ltd

London Scottish House,

Quays Reach

Carolina Way

Salford

M50 2ZY

 

27 December 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Sainsbury’s c.c. Acc’s xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Accounts in dispute.

 

These debts are unenforceable in court due to the fact that:

 

1. The assignment MUST come from the Original Creditor

2. I have no obligation to pay unless you have the correct authority to collect and a properly executed original agreement with corresponding correctly executed assignment exists.

3. The alleged debt cannot be substantiated by yourselves yet you continue to breach OFT guidelines

4. You ask me to pay an alleged debt with a credit card - this again is against OFT guidelines....

5. You stated that you would not collect on this alleged debt until the original agreement was provided - I have not had this therefore I need a copy of your complaints procedure at your earliest convenience as you have breached this agreement.

 

Overdone

[stitchedup]

Settled for this letter.

 

Robinson Way and Company Ltd

London Scottish House,

Quays Reach

Carolina Way

Salford

M50 2ZY

 

27 December 2008

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Sainsbury’s c.c. Acc’s xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Accounts in dispute.

 

These debts are unenforceable in court due to the fact that:

 

1. The assignment MUST come from the Original Creditor

2. I have no obligation to pay unless you have the correct authority to collect and a properly executed original agreement with corresponding correctly executed assignment exists.

3. The alleged debt cannot be substantiated by yourselves yet you continue to breach OFT guidelines

4. You ask me to pay an alleged debt with a credit card - this again is against OFT guidelines....

5. You stated that you would not collect on this alleged debt until the original agreement was provided - I have not had this therefore I need a copy of your complaints procedure at your earliest convenience as you have breached this agreement.

 

Overdone

 

I've read on CAG recently that we shouldn't help them do their job, just let them keep 'hanging' themselves, I have given up asking for the documentation once and once only, their failure to supply is their problem.

Keep their begging letters and all the other dross safe.

RW are totally useless I'm still waiting a valid CCA and havent paid them a penny for 18 months, to be honest their full of Hot air, wind and P*ss.

 

Good luck

[overdone]

I've read on CAG recently that we shouldn't help them do their job, just let them keep 'hanging' themselves, I have given up asking for the documentation once and once only, their failure to supply is their problem.

Keep their begging letters and all the other dross safe.

RW are totally useless I'm still waiting a valid CCA and havent paid them a penny for 18 months, to be honest their full of Hot air, wind and P*ss.

 

Good luck

Well Put!:grin: I have several threads where they have tried to pull the wool with any old piece of paperwork they can come up with and it is a pain itemising what is wrong. There is no professionalism.

[boavista1952]

Gonna watch this one closely as I have a similar situation with RW over an uncomfirmed assignment of an Abbey account that I am claiming back charges on:)

 

All the best, Boa ...

[overdone]

Robinson Way and Company Ltd.

 

Re ex sainsbury's CC Loan

 

Account no xxxxxxxx

 

We allowed you to pay this account by instalments. In spite of this you have failed to pay your instalments on time. If you want the privilege of paying by instalments you must pay every payment on time.

 

You must pay the arrears quoted below, immediately. If you fail to pay your arrears now, further action will be taken to recover the full balance due. Pay now, by telephone using your credit or debit card or use the slip below.

Edited January 7, 2009 by overdone
typo