cis tax returns problems

[James64]

Police contacted me from Hornchurch today, gave me a crime number said a DC Green was leading the investigation, sounds like few people have rung already anyone that hasn't should contact Hornchurch station on 01708 751212.

[novacav]

will call him tomorrow thanks

[richardk23]

hi, no new info as yet but i have an appointment to speak to a legal advisor on thursday at my local sherriff court.

[richardk23]

just had a phone call from dc green. he says alan waidson has been arrested and is out on bail. they have traced one bank account but he says most of money has been withdrawn and is unlikely to be recovered.

[legalpickle]

just had a phone call from dc green. he says alan waidson has been arrested and is out on bail. they have traced one bank account but he says most of money has been withdrawn and is unlikely to be recovered.

Despite this shocking and partially depressing piece of information I think it is still worth writing to his parents and also issuing court claims. There is nothing above the postage costs and court fees to lose and at least he get's a CCJ causing him damage for 6 years unless he pays within a month.

 

From my understanding, and assuming he doesn't try and defend the maximum court fee that any of his victims would lose is £225, but most would lose in the range of £65 to £108 and maybe a small lucky few £30 or £45. If issued via Money Claim Online which I don't recommend the issue fees for below £5k range from £25-£100 and £210 for claims above £5k.

 

I doubt anybody is owed above £15k!

 

If enforcement action is taken the fees would be £35-£65.

 

In the extremely unlikely event that he were to defend hearing fees would be payable, and if above £1,500 in value fees for the filing of the Allocation Questionnaire would be payable. The total costs for these vary from £25 to £700 [but because of the simplicity of the claims even if they are above £5k in value, it is more likely that the maximum amount would be £500]. For claims below £5k in value these vary between £25-£335. The average of these would be £185.

 

I list these fees for the sake of completion but it is extremely unlikely that he would defend, because he has no defence!

[simon911]

just from reading the last statement from legalpickle i feel i need to clarify that from my well informed contact i have been told this guy has paid all our rebate money to these loan sharks and has not got a penny himself, so paying even more money for court action against him will be pointless if he declares himself bankrupt and ends up in prison. i am only owed 600 pounds from this guy which i can see is alot less than others are owed but dont want to see others wasting more time and money chasing after this ahole if in the end will receive nothing anyway. Apparently he has no assets either, making it even more obvious to me the fact that this guy has nothing for us to go after financially as he doesn't own his home and will more than likely end up in prison for embezellment or theft charges as the police are now involved. i do hope that this guy ends up in prison to teach him a lesson anyway, after all he has by the sounds of it taken our money and used it to pay off these loan sharks to save himself and his family from harm. i can understand if true but am ****ed off with the hmrc if they wont reimburse our tax refunds to us as we have no power over what this guy does with our money! They must bear some responsibility especially if they already knew this guys company was in trouble. Such a stupid tax system we have which by the looks of it is open to abuse!!!!

[legalpickle]

just from reading the last statement from legalpickle i feel i need to clarify that from my well informed contact i have been told this guy has paid all our rebate money to these loan sharks and has not got a penny himself, so paying even more money for court action against him will be pointless if he declares himself bankrupt and ends up in prison. i am only owed 600 pounds from this guy which i can see is alot less than others are owed but dont want to see others wasting more time and money chasing after this ahole if in the end will receive nothing anyway. Apparently he has no assets either, making it even more obvious to me the fact that this guy has nothing for us to go after financially as he doesn't own his home and will more than likely end up in prison for embezellment or theft charges as the police are now involved. i do hope that this guy ends up in prison to teach him a lesson anyway, after all he has by the sounds of it taken our money and used it to pay off these loan sharks to save himself and his family from harm. i can understand if true but am ****ed off with the hmrc if they wont reimburse our tax refunds to us as we have no power over what this guy does with our money! They must bear some responsibility especially if they already knew this guys company was in trouble. Such a stupid tax system we have which by the looks of it is open to abuse!!!!

Simon;

 

1. What you are saying is one source. Paying off loan sharks isn't a criminal act so he wouldn't end up in jail for it. I reckon he's been doing more with the money than that. Also, if bailiff's are knocking at his parents door daily, there's a chance they'll pay. I say it's worth a shot, if it's done quickly.

 

2. YOU GAVE PERMISSION TO PAY HIM. HMRC are NOT liable. It's the same everywhere if I owe you money and you give me permission to pay Joe Bloggs and Joe Bloggs goes takes that money to pay a debt and then goes bankrupt, why should I be liable to you?

[precyce]

Can someone explain to me why the money is first transfered to a third party, in this case the accountant Alan Waidson. Before it is then passed on to us, the tax payer. Why is it not simply paid in to the original tax payers account directly from HMRC.

If this is normal practice in the UK then surely this type of situation runs rife.

I always had the suspision that this was going to happen. However was to niave to admit it. Especially when the day I arrived home in Australia I filed a tx return and saw the money appear before my eyes in no more than 3 working days.

[legalpickle]

Can someone explain to me why the money is first transfered to a third party, in this case the accountant Alan Waidson. Before it is then passed on to us, the tax payer. Why is it not simply paid in to the original tax payers account directly from HMRC.

If this is normal practice in the UK then surely this type of situation runs rife.

I always had the suspision that this was going to happen. However was to niave to admit it. Especially when the day I arrived home in Australia I filed a tx return and saw the money appear before my eyes in no more than 3 working days.

Firstly, Waidson is not an Accountant. He was a "business person" who knew how to fill in the CIS Tax forms.

 

Secondly, if you authorize an Agent to act on your behalf they can state to whose bank account it goes to. You would have authorized HMRC to pay it into his account.

 

I know the same goes on in Australia - from friends there - if you get an Agent or an Accountant to fill in a return. The refunds can be paid either to the Agent or directly to you.

 

It's nothing to do with problematic tax forms. When I fill in my company tax returns I can ask for refunds to be paid into my business accounts or a third party account. It's the same in most countries to the best of my knowledge.

[novacav]

i for one will be taking him to court as he has had over 5.5k of my hard earned money even if i dont get anything back least it will cause him problems in getting credit etc

 

should we all send our claims to one court would that be better

[legalpickle]

i for one will be taking him to court as he has had over 5.5k of my hard earned money even if i dont get anything back least it will cause him problems in getting credit etc

 

should we all send our claims to one court would that be better

No. You should send your claims to your local Court. You only have the right to use your local Court, Money Claim Online or his local Court. And it won't make a difference sending all claims to the same court.

[novacav]

ok thanks will be sorting that out next week then

[russ c]

have been tolod by police that there are now over 44 people defrauded by this guy and the total money is up to 1.2million pounds!!!

[legalpickle]

have been tolod by police that there are now over 44 people defrauded by this guy and the total money is up to 1.2million pounds!!!

So the faster people jump on the bandwagon and sue the more chance of getting the money. Because I'm guessing that his parents may pay a few CCJ's but not all of them.

[novacav]

hi there i want to start taking alan to court

 

i can get most of the info to fill out the n1 from lonley-rivercottages thread

 

i could do with a bit of help with the amounts and the writing of the info

 

this is the info i have

 

april 21 2008

 

first contacted alan by phone to see if he could help me out as i had 4 years tax to sort out

 

may 8 2008

 

alan called me to arrange to come and see me to collect my paper work and go though any problems i had he came that eve

 

july 23 2008

 

get a letter from the tax office to say £5403.57 is being paid to my agents account

 

tax office told me payment was sent on the 24/07/2008

 

september 5 2008

 

get a letter from the tax office to say £1548.70 is being paid to my agents account

 

tax office told me payment sent 2/08/08

 

txt alan on the 19/09/08 asking when i would be reciving my money

he called me back and said the company had a few cash flow problems

he said he could pay £1000 in to my account which he did

 

20/09/08

 

recived first letter to say was having cashflow problems

 

25/09/08

 

recived second letter to say he was shutting the company

 

30/09/08 sent three letters to alan asking for payment within 14 days and he was told if payment not recived legal action would be taken one was recorded

 

he fee for the 4 years was £350

 

so in total he owes me £5602.27

 

 

 

many thanks novacav

[novacav]

a link to my orignal thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/161532-cis-tax-returns-problems.html

[novacav]

just started another thread about taking alan to court

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/163979-cistaxreturns-taking-court.html

 

 

thanks to all who have helped in this mater donation just sent there will be another on the conclusion of this matter

 

many thanks novacav

Edited October 13, 2008 by novacav

[simon911]

44 people and 1.2 million pounds..........that equates to roughly 25 grand each...that cant be right! also, if this guy no longer lives at his business address and we file court action against him sending all relevent paperwork there, how will he no about it? as according to the info i have he hasnt been at that address for some time now! and certainly if i had loansharks after me + 44 angry people who are owed large sums i wouldnt be hanging around there either! spoke to the police and this is definatley a police matter now so cant see how he wont be prosecuted for a crime. guess we wil have to wait and see?

[novacav]

Claimant: ??????????????

Defendant: Alan Waidson

In the: ??????????????

Date: 13th October 2008

 

 

For the clarity of the case, the Claimant has broken down the Particulars of Claim into Sections.

 

No part, section or subsection of this claim shall prejudice any other part of this claim in way, method, manner, shape or form.

 

 

1. The Defendant operated a business to claim tax refunds under the CIS scheme from HMRC for customers.

 

2. On 21st april 2008, the Claimant contacted the Defendant to ask him to carry out the work to receive a refund for the Claimant as with regards to claiming this refund.

 

3. On 8th may 2008 the defendant called the claimant to arrange him to come and collect the paperwork needed to arrange a refund from the hmrc. He arrived that eve and collected all the paperwork needed

 

4. The Claimant subsequently received a letter dated 21st july 2008 from HMRC confirming that the sum of 5403.57p had been paid by bank transfer to the Defendant's account.

 

5.The Claimant subsequently received a letter dated 3rd september 2008 from HMRC confirming that the sum of £1548.70p had been paid by bank transfer to the Defendant's account.

 

6. On 19th September 2008 the Claimant txt the Defendant asking when he was going to recieive the re fund due and was called back by the defendant stating he was having financial difficulties the Defendant paid £1000 cash in to the claimants bank account

 

7. The Claimant received a letter dated 24th September 2008 from the Defendant claiming the company was having financial difficulties

 

8. The Claimant received a letter dated 26th September 2008 from the Defendant claiming that his business had closed.

 

9. As the Defendant's business was in his own name as a sole-trader the Defendant remains liable for these funds to the Claimant.

 

10. On 30th september 2008 the Claimant sent 2 letters to the Defendant by 1st class post asking for payment within 14 days.

 

11. On 1st October 2008 the Claimant wrote another letter to the Defendant sent by 1st class recorded delivery demanding payment within 14 days.

 

12. The Claimant has not received any contact from the Defendant in response to his letters or any further contact from the Defendant besides for the communications detailed above.

 

13. The fee that the Claimant agreed that the Defendant is entitled to from the refund from HMRC, upon payment from HMRC, is £350.

 

14. On the above basis the Claimant contends that he has done all within his ability to try and recoup the monies owed to him by the Defendant without issuing court proceedings and has therefore been left with no choice but to issue these proceedings.

 

15. Copies of all the documents referenced to in this Part iculars of Claim are attached.

 

The Claimant therefore claims the sum of £5602.27 [which is the sum paid to the Defendant by HMRC minus the Defendant's fee and £1000 cash paid].

 

In addition the Claimant claims £99.07 in interest at 8% per annum [pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] from 24th july 2008 [the date the Defendant received the monies from HMRC] till the date of filing this claim of 13th October 2008.

 

The Claimant also claims a further £1.254p in interest [pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] daily for each and every day beyond 13th October 2008 that these monies are overdue from the Defendant.

 

The Claimant also claims the court fee of £225.

 

 

will this be ok or is there any changes i need to make many thanks novacav

[legalpickle]

It's his parents - or other Waidson's - address and they own the house - according to the Land Registry.

 

I also doubt 44 people are owed roughly £25k each - in fact I know that's not true, because posts here are from people owed a lot less than that!

 

Prosecution and investigation are two very different things. Even if he is prosecuted the odds of anything happening for your benefit once he's prosecuted are low, so I would definitely hop on the bandwagon now and sue him as soon as.

 

Also it's his home address and his parents - or other Waidson's that seem to be his parents - own the house, so sending the court papers there is sufficient. They are deemed served after two working days and you would have done your best by sending them to his last known address where there is more than reasonable belief is more than sufficient.

[legalpickle]

1. Read http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-consumer-issues/163015-cistaxrefunds-start-claim.html

Follow the instructions there in filling in the form. Both my long posts on the first page of that thread.

 

2. Capitalize where necessary for example - Claimant, Defendant & Months. Not all are capitalized.

 

3. All figures must be whole amounts, not .004p, but .00p.

 

4. Which spreadsheet did you use to work out the interest? Because till 13th October 2008 for the sum £5,602.27 from 24th July 2008, I get £99.83 in interest. I also get £1.23 in daily interest.

 

 

I suggest you repost, including what you would put in the N1, and repost here before filling it all in and filing it at your local court.

[novacav]

Claimant: ??????????????

Defendant: Alan Waidson

In the: ??????????????

Date: 13th October 2008

 

 

For the clarity of the case, the Claimant has broken down the Particulars of Claim into Sections.

 

No part, section or subsection of this claim shall prejudice any other part of this claim in way, method, manner, shape or form.

 

 

1. The Defendant operated a business to claim tax refunds under the CIS scheme from HMRC for customers.

 

2. On 21st April 2008, the Claimant contacted the Defendant to ask him to carry out the work to receive a refund for the Claimant as with regards to claiming this refund.

 

3. On 8th May 2008 the Defendant called the Claimant to arrange him to come and collect the paperwork needed to arrange a refund from the hmrc. He arrived that eve and collected all the paperwork needed

 

4. The Claimant subsequently received a letter dated 21st July 2008 from HMRC confirming that the sum of 5403.57p had been paid by bank transfer to the Defendant's account.

 

5.The Claimant subsequently received a letter dated 3rd September 2008 from HMRC confirming that the sum of £1548.70p had been paid by bank transfer to the Defendant's account.

 

6. On 19th September 2008 the Claimant txt the Defendant asking when he was going to recieive the re fund due and was called back by the Defendant stating he was having financial difficulties the

Defendant paid £1000 cash in to the claimants bank account

 

7. The Claimant received a letter dated 24th September 2008 from the Defendant claiming the company was having financial difficulties

 

8. The Claimant received a letter dated 26th September 2008 from the Defendant claiming that his business had closed.

 

9. As the Defendant's business was in his own name as a sole-trader the Defendant remains liable for these funds to the Claimant.

 

10. On 30th september 2008 the Claimant sent 2 letters to the Defendant by 1st class post asking for payment within 14 days.

 

11. On 1st October 2008 the Claimant wrote another letter to the Defendant sent by 1st class recorded delivery demanding payment within 14 days.

 

12. The Claimant has not received any contact from the Defendant in response to his letters or any further contact from the Defendant besides for the communications detailed above.

 

13. The fee that the Claimant agreed that the Defendant is entitled to from the refund from HMRC, upon payment from HMRC, is £350.

 

14. On the above basis the Claimant contends that he has done all within his ability to try and recoup the monies owed to him by the Defendant without issuing court proceedings and has therefore been left with no choice but to issue these proceedings.

 

15. Copies of all the documents referenced to in this Part iculars of Claim are attached.

 

The Claimant therefore claims the sum of £5602.27 [which is the sum paid to the Defendant by HMRC minus the Defendant's fee and £1000 cash paid].

 

In addition the Claimant claims £99.07 in interest at 8% per annum [pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] from 24th July 2008 [the date the Defendant received the monies from HMRC] till the date of filing this claim of 13th October 2008.

 

The Claimant also claims a further £1.25p in interest [pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] daily for each and every day beyond 13th October 2008 that these monies are overdue from the Defendant.

 

The Claimant also claims the court fee of £225.

 

is that better

 

i used the same spreadsheet as the bank charges

 

24th July he received £5403.57

24th July he took his charges -£350

3rd September he received £1548.70

19th September he paid me -£1000

 

i got £99.07 in interest

 

the N1 has been filled out using your posts on other thread and adding my details and amounts

 

thanks novacav

[novacav]

i cant see that there is a missing 1.2 million pounds as he only done cis tax returns

[legalpickle]

The reason your calculation was wrong is because you deducted amounts, when you put a minus figure on that it takes off interest, rather than stopping the interest as you want to do.

 

Instead of what you have done with the spreadsheet - and you don't need to attach the spreadsheet - make several spreadsheets. And do as follows:

Spreadsheet 1: £5,053.57 24/07/2008 - which is the first amount minus the charge. Claim date 16/10/2008.

Spreadsheet 2: £1,548.70 03/09/2008. Claim date 19/09/2008. Take that interest amount = £5.45.

Now add to Spreadsheet 1: £5.45 + £548.70 = £554.15 19/09/2008

 

Total incl. interest till 16/10/2008 = £5,704.40 + £1.23 in daily interest. So now change the bottom bit to:

The Claimant therefore claims the sum of £5,704.40 which is the sums received by the Defendant from HMRC minus £350 for his charges and £1,000 that he has paid the Claimant plus interest at 8% per annum [pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] from the dates that the Defendant received the amounts from HMRC till the date of filing & issuing this claim of 16th October 2008.

 

The Claimant also claims a further £1.23 in interest for each and every day beyond 16th October 2008 that these monies are outstanding from the Defendant.

Consistently put the '£' sign before amounts, not sometimes yes and sometimes not.

 

5. The Claimant subsequently received a letter dated 3rd September 2008 from HMRC confirming that the additional sum of £1548.70p had been paid by bank transfer to the Defendant's account.

 

[change red to black, obviously]

 

13. The fee that the Claimant agreed that the Defendant is entitled to from the refund from HMRC, upon payment from HMRC, was £350.

 

Repost here again for a final proof.

[legalpickle]

i cant see that there is a missing 1.2 million pounds as he only done cis tax returns

What do you mean? Whilst I don't believe that £1.2m is missing or at least not from 40 odd people, it is still extremely possible that £1.2m is missing - just from many more people.

 

It isn't complicated paperwork and one who knows what they are doing can churn off 15 a day easily!

 

Also, I doubt everybody will be on this forum!