Help I am being defrauded! ebay phone debacle

[legalpickle]

Sorry to butt in again, but is there any point threatening them with TS or Court if it is no point complaining to the OFT ? Trading Standards, UK County Courts and the OFT equally won't have any jurisdiction over a Luxembourg company ?

The only possible body worth complaining to is the FOS then ?

Can't hurt to threaten.

 

Trading Standards do have jurisdiction by the way - to force them to disclose the information and get the refund - though it is rarely used.

 

Didn't mention OFT in the letter as that would be futile and be considered more of a rant than effective letter.

 

It is possible to take court action just very complicated hence I didn't specify the type of court.

[The Phantom]

Trading Standards do have jurisdiction by the way - to force them to disclose the information and get the refund - though it is rarely used.

 

Which TS has got a Home Authority relationship with paypal then ? I.e. which TS would you contact ? My local one always says the TS local to the offending company needs to investigate, which one would that be for a company in Luxembourg ?

[legalpickle]

Trading Standards do have jurisdiction by the way - to force them to disclose the information and get the refund - though it is rarely used.

 

Which TS has got a Home Authority relationship with paypal then ? I.e. which TS would you contact ? My local one always says the TS local to the offending company needs to investigate, which one would that be for a company in Luxembourg ?

You always contact your local TS. They should then contact - I believe - Surrey TS, unless there's a Richmond-upon-Thames one, who should contact Paypal's UK office. Just like the Police have jurisdiction.

 

As long as they have an office in the UK, TS & Police have jurisdiction. If they don't, then TS can - in important cases - within Europe contact some group that's an umbrella group for all similar organizations across Europe.

 

I don't recommend it though, because TS rarely get involved in such matters and I'm guessing Surrey TS have had so many referrals that by now they just say no.

[The Phantom]

Paypal has offered (through the Ombudsman) a full refund which I have accepted

 

[legalpickle]

Paypal has offered (through the Ombudsman) a full refund which I have accepted

 

Well done, but I would have insisted on compensation, and you'd have probably gotten it. I couldn't see on this thread what you filled out on the complaint form to the FOS. I would recommend in future to always get a non-biased opinion on what you write in complaint forms. It can sometimes help substantially.

 

A friend wrote a complaint form to the FOS blasting the financial institution involved claiming everything they had done was plainly illegal, bla, bla, bla. It probably was but resulted in the Adjudicator not being able to understand a word he had written. He got me involved when the Adjudicator refused the complaint. I re-did everything for him and the Adjudicator and the Adjudicator's Team Leader both agreed to uphold the amended complaint, with a note that had my friend written things normally without blasting the Business about matters irrelevant to the complaint, it would have probably been settled months earlier! I accept it is rare to find such exaggerated behaviour, but the point is that having somebody non-biased reading everything can only help - and may have gotten you compensation.

[The Phantom]

I am happy as it is. I think they only settled as the disputed amount was lower than the fee they would have to pay the FOS for the investigation, but they did include interest (from October last year to now) which surprised me as I didn't ask for it

I don't think I ranted in my FOS letter though, I like writing letters of complaint

[The Phantom]

PS : I wouldn't have thought of using paypal's UK address though, didn't even know they still had one, so this thread was still very helpful and so were you ! It's members like you that make the CAG such a powerful institution really

[legalpickle]

I am happy as it is. I think they only settled as the disputed amount was lower than the fee they would have to pay the FOS for the investigation, but they did include interest (from October last year to now) which surprised me as I didn't ask for it

I don't think I ranted in my FOS letter though, I like writing letters of complaint

1. Your thought is incorrect. They have to pay £450 (from April £500), once the casework team log the complaint, which is the same time they get a letter from the FOS saying a complaint has been lodged against them. There is no saving, bar time, if they settle immediately or wait 9 months till the FOS tells them to do so.

2. The FOS guidelines say interest should be included, to the best of my knowledge.

3. Did you write a letter of complaint to the FOS or did you fill in the form? If it was a letter of complaint I'm surprised they accept it. They normally insist on a complaint form.

 

PS : I wouldn't have thought of using paypal's UK address though, didn't even know they still had one, so this thread was still very helpful and so were you ! It's members like you that make the CAG such a powerful institution really

Thanks for the kind words. The problem is a lot of people think the UK address can be used for everything, i.e. court action, which it can't. It is the address given by the FOS.

[The Phantom]

Oh, so it is going up again in April. Good. It will maybe encourage companies to settle direct with their customers rather than wait for them to involve the Ombudsman !

 

Sorry, when I said I wrote a letter of complaint I meant I sent them the form they have on their website, duly filled out with all ticks and dots in the right place, but I did attach some separate sheets,too, as I find the space to explain the nature of the matter is a bit too small on the pdf form. It kept cutting my story short

 

I was still waiting for the matter to be allocated to an adjudicator (which according to the FOS would have been sometime before the 23.04.09) and the FOS said they were waiting for a reply from paypal, when suddenly I got another letter from the FOS through the post advising me paypal was offering full settlement and could I let them know by return mail (after considering the matter) whether I accept or not. There was a settlement agreement form included which I had to sign and send back to the FOS, so I am not sure whether at this point paypal had already been charged the fee or not. But I am happy, to be honest. I got my money back. Thanks to you and this thread really

[legalpickle]

Oh, so it is going up again in April. Good. It will maybe encourage companies to settle direct with their customers rather than wait for them to involve the Ombudsman !

£50 is not likely to make a difference! The latest edition of Ombudsman News mentioned that more complaints are coming in due to the current economic climate which is actually not due to customers bringing frivolous complaints, but businesses being less prepared to reasonably settle them!

 

Sorry, when I said I wrote a letter of complaint I meant I sent them the form they have on their website, duly filled out with all ticks and dots in the right place, but I did attach some separate sheets,too, as I find the space to explain the nature of the matter is a bit too small on the pdf form. It kept cutting my story short

I know the form's short, and I nearly always just write "Please see attached." and type everything in a Word document.

 

I was still waiting for the matter to be allocated to an adjudicator (which according to the FOS would have been sometime before the 23.04.09) and the FOS said they were waiting for a reply from paypal, when suddenly I got another letter from the FOS through the post advising me paypal was offering full settlement and could I let them know by return mail (after considering the matter) whether I accept or not. There was a settlement agreement form included which I had to sign and send back to the FOS, so I am not sure whether at this point paypal had already been charged the fee or not. But I am happy, to be honest. I got my money back. Thanks to you and this thread really

Paypal would have been charged as soon as you got the letter from Casework Support - which would have been the second letter usually. I would have stuck it out and got some compensation.

 

I don't think I did too much.

 

The reason I was worried that you may have written a lot regarding unfair practices and ranted on, was due to the nature of previous posts in this thread.

 

I would always recommend that people get non-biased advice from others, including having their complaint forms - and continuation sheets - proofed by somebody not involved. It nearly always guarantees a better result.

[The Phantom]

Yes, but to get a full refund plus interest was good enough for me.

I am quite happy.

 

Yes, I did also use separate sheets in the end, when the boxes were too small

Just ended up deleting it all and attached the necessary sheets instead

I just couldn't compress it down to the size of these boxes.

[The Phantom]

There is one thing that puzzles me though. If it is correct what you say and paypal gets charged as soon as the Casework Team writes to them, why do they settle and not just let it go to adjudication. All they do is stated in their T&Cs and we agree to them when we sign up, unless they are worried that some parts of their T&Cs may be shaky and the ruling could go against them setting an example ?

[legalpickle]

Yes, but to get a full refund plus interest was good enough for me.

I am quite happy.

Each to their own. I always go for the full whack!

 

Yes, I did also use separate sheets in the end, when the boxes were too small

Just ended up deleting it all and attached the necessary sheets instead

I just couldn't compress it down to the size of these boxes.

I don't understand why they don't make bigger forms. Nobody can fit everything in those boxes. Or they should get rid of those boxes and just write "Please answer these questions on a separate page" listing the questions in each of the boxes. But then again, it's the FOS, not the most competent body, to say the least.

 

There is one thing that puzzles me though. If it is correct what you say and paypal gets charged as soon as the Casework Team writes to them, why do they settle and not just let it go to adjudication. All they do is stated in their T&Cs and we agree to them when we sign up, unless they are worried that some parts of their T&Cs may be shaky and the ruling could go against them setting an example ?

No ruling from the FOS "sets an example" unless it is ruled by an Ombudsman or upheld by a Court of Law. Adjudicator's decisions depend entirely on the circumstances and what the Adjudicator thinks is correct unless an Ombudsman has made a prior decision on that specific issue.

 

To the best of my knowledge Paypal have always done that. Either then or as soon as it's allocated to an Adjudicator. I think the reason is they can't be bothered going through the process as they know they won't win, and they have realized the customer is serious about the process. It's an "odds game" when it comes to threats for Court or an Ombudsman scheme. Large companies get tens of thousands of complaints, but how many of those are followed up? How many make it to an Ombudsman or Court stage? A lot of people drop their cases when they see the response thinking they don't stand a chance. As soon as they see the customer is serious, they settle.

 

Don't forget it costs them money to administrate and respond to questions of the Adjudicator if they defend the matter.

[GreatWonder]

it was an e-item and delivery was recorded by way of email

 

it all seems a big con to me

 

PayPal make it clear that non-tangible goods are NOT covered by their protection policy (selling or buying). If it were me, I would have written the code down on paper and sent it special delivery (gives you a tracking number). We all live and learn though I guess.