Possibly Being Charged For Someone Else's Gas Useage?

[EViS]

This is a problem my tenants are facing since I purchased the dwelling and they moved in over 8 months ago. I've now decided it's time I step in and aid them to get this error sorted.

 

From when the tenants received their first Gas bill it was extortionately high for a small two-bedroom apartment. It was also summer time thus heating wasn't used at all.

 

The gas readings I took (from the meter which has my door number painted on it) when I purchased the apartment are also completely different to those being quoted by British Gas. British Gas's readings are about double to those I took.

 

A bill also came for the previous apartment owner for £500-odd for 2 months useage!! It would be impossible to use this much gas in such a short period of time in this small apartment.

 

After many phone calls to verify this charge, someone from British Gas came out to verify which meter was their's. He couldn't find it!!! All the meters are located outside in the communal parking/garden area, there are only 13 flats in the small complex.

 

The tenants have not heard back from British Gas for all this time and are obviously worried they will receive an enormous bill any day for the entire time they have been using gas for heating & coooking.

 

Going on the above, would it be out-of-the-ordinary for British Gas to be charging the tenants for someone elses gas meter/useage?

 

How could you propose I go from here to get this mess sorted?

 

Many thanks in advance!

[ATD]

There are a number of possible issues and to try and suggest which may be in play here is going to require a bit more info.

 

The most likely is a crossed meter situation / mislabeling of the meter boxes, however it could be complicated if your gas transporter is an IGT.

 

Are the apartments a relatively new build? You mentioned the previous owner only had two months usage - would that be the developer.

 

Do you know what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) you are being billed against, and does this start with 74.

 

Also do you know the Meter Serial Number (MSN) on your bills - and if so, is this the same MSN shown on the meter which is identified as being for your flat? If the BG Rep couldn't find the meter, then I doubt that it does, but need to ask just to be sure - you could have just had a duff rep!

 

Might seem a strange question, but as there are 13 apartments - is there actually a number 13? Things can get confused in the transition from plot number (where 13 is often used) to flat/house numbers (where 13 is often avoided); so for example plot 13 could easily become flat 14, but may not have been registered as such with the Gas Transporter.

 

If you have access to all the meter boxes, the easiest way to find yours would be to conduct a burns test. Basically you turn all the gas appliances in the apartment on full blast, and check to see which meter is spinning like a mad thing. You can then at least confirm which MSN should be allocated to your property.

[EViS]

However it could be complicated if your gas transporter is an IGT.

 

Why would an IGT complicate this issue? And how would I find out whether my transporter is an IGT?

 

Are the apartments a relatively new build? You mentioned the previous owner only had two months usage - would that be the developer.

Construction completed in 2003. The previous owner purchased the apartment directly from the developer. Two months useage was based on the only bill (seemed unpaid as it was not a final bill) that came through for them after they moved out. I'm unable to get in contact with them now.

 

Do you know what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) you are being billed against, and does this start with 74.

Is this the number on the actual gas meter? I'd have to find out (from the tenants) whether this number starts with '74', will it be on the bill?

 

Also do you know the Meter Serial Number (MSN) on your bills - and if so, is this the same MSN shown on the meter which is identified as being for your flat?

It didn't match, no, but then again I wasn't sure whether I was looking at the meter number or another 'serial'.

 

Might seem a strange question, but as there are 13 apartments - is there actually a number 13? Things can get confused in the transition from plot number (where 13 is often used) to flat/house numbers (where 13 is often avoided); so for example plot 13 could easily become flat 14, but may not have been registered as such with the Gas Transporter.

I'll need to check this by looking at the apartment numbers on the intercom system. There are locked fire doors which seperate the building in half. I won't be able to get to the apartment for another month though.

 

If you have access to all the meter boxes, the easiest way to find yours would be to conduct a burns test. Basically you turn all the gas appliances in the apartment on full blast, and check to see which meter is spinning like a mad thing. You can then at least confirm which MSN should be allocated to your property.

 

Unless someone else is cooking or have their heating on full blast? Is this an accurate test? Any other way to know for sure which meter is mine? Would the management company know this information somehow other than simply guessing by the number painted on the meter box?

[pelham9]

Ask British gas to send someone round to check the whole block!! They might get off their backsides and do something sensible. (for a change).

 

It is almost certain that the information they have on the meters and the numbers are incorrect for the whole block.

[ATD]

Why would an IGT complicate this issue? And how would I find out whether my transporter is an IGT?

 

IGT don't operate a standard system like the main DN's - assuming it's a cross meter or MPRN/MSN mismatch it will more than likely effect more than just the one property in the block - which will mean more than just the one supplier, making it a lengthy process to resolve. Once dealt with an apartment complex of 250+ units supplied by the whole spectrum of suppliers via IGT - that took over two years to sort out!.

 

 

Construction completed in 2003. The previous owner purchased the apartment directly from the developer. Two months useage was based on the only bill (seemed unpaid as it was not a final bill) that came through for them after they moved out. I'm unable to get in contact with them now.

 

 

Is this the number on the actual gas meter? I'd have to find out (from the tenants) whether this number starts with '74', will it be on the bill?

 

The MPRN will be on the bill, the MSN on the meter. If it starts with 74 or 75 then it identifies it as an IGT - this along with the next 6 digits will identify which IGT - so you can contact them directly to find out what details they hold for the property - ie, address and former plot details to confirm if they are accurate. If the block is not IGT, then British Gas can access all the details themselves via the Xoserve site.

 

 

It didn't match, no, but then again I wasn't sure whether I was looking at the meter number or another 'serial'.

 

Didn't really expect it too, but it was worth a long shot.

 

 

Unless someone else is cooking or have their heating on full blast? Is this an accurate test? Any other way to know for sure which meter is mine? Would the management company know this information somehow other than simply guessing by the number painted on the meter box?

 

True, it's not fool proof, but it is the best indication you will get without having to involve all the other occupiers - i.e. everyone turning the gas off and then turning meters on individually to confirm which meter supplies which property.

 

This is something that will need to be arranged via the shipper (be that IGT or not) - your supplier can request the shipper do this, but the supplier can not change the meter details assigned to a property without the shippers OK - It is the shipper that owns the meter asset, not the supplier.

[EViS]

Just to confirm, the MPRN will never match the meter's MSN, correct? They are two different things, the bill will (should) have an MSN on it as well as an MPRN?

[ATD]

Just to confirm, the MPRN will never match the meter's MSN, correct? They are two different things, the bill will (should) have an MSN on it as well as an MPRN?

 

That's right, the MPRN will be different from the MSN.

 

MPRN= Meter Point Reference Number - this is unique to, and identifies the property, and should never change

 

MSN= Meter Serial Number - this is unique to each meter and is tied to the MPRN - it can change, if for example you have a meter exchanged.

 

Both may be shown on your bill, but the MPRN should be on there at least.

[EViS]

The MPRN should atleast be on the bill or the MSN?

 

If the MPRN, maybe that's why it didn't match the meter serial number (MSN) when I compared them? i.e. I was reading the MPRN from the bill and trying to match it to the MSN on the meter.

[pelham9]

 
Going on the above, would it be out-of-the-ordinary for British Gas
to be charging the tenants for someone elses gas meter/useage?

 

Not at all. I moved into a new build apartment nearly two years ago. I rang then to give my name and new address and meter reading but they said they did not supply my address. They then started to send bills either to the occupier or another name which nobody recognised. After receiving a red bill in the wrong name I managed to get them to send the bill to me. I live in number 10. The new bills were sent for gas consumed at number 12 and it took another 4 months to sort this nonsense. The main problem is that they sit at computers which are badly programmed and do not do the obvious - a site visit to sort things out.

 

Absolutely hopeless!

[EViS]

Apologies for the long delay in getting back to this thread. I've been abroad for most of the time and since my return have been extremely busy with other things. It is now however time to sort this mess out.

 

My tenant, the good guy he is, has been on the phone to British Gas to help sort this out. They have since reduced his bill (Jan - August) to a sensible figure (average of £30/month). This bill is as of yet unpaid as BG said they will get back to him. It's now mid-November and still no contact from BG...

 

I have just called BG up and asked about the MSN (6 digits) they have on record. I have asked my tenant to look at the MSN on the actual meter. I will await his reply later today or I'll pop over myself tomorrow.

 

The MPRN is in fact on the bill. It also begins with '74'. There is a note on the bill with the following;

 

British Gas is your Gas supplier.

The company that carries Gas to your home is ESP Connections Ltd

Your Gas pricing region: Southern Electric

 

Does this mean that my IGT is ESP Connecstions Ltd or Southern Electric?

[ATD]

Yep, it means your IGT is ESP Connections Ltd.

 

They are now known as ES Pipelines, all the contact details are here

 

They are the one's who own your meter asset information and meter, and are the one that will have to make any amendments if it does turn out that the wrong meter asset is registered as supplying your apartment.

[EViS]

But the MSN that British Gas have will be the same as the number held on record by my IGT (i.e. ES Pipelines)?

[ATD]

But the MSN that British Gas have will be the same as the number held on record by my IGT (i.e. ES Pipelines)?

 

Well it might be, then again it might not. Knowing which it is will help to determine exactly what has gone wrong with the account.

 

You need to check with ESP exactly what details they hold. Start by giving them your postal address and see if they can find this. If they can, see what meter details they hold for it (both MPRN & MSN) & importantly, which plot number became your current address.

 

If they can't find your postal address, give them the MPRN that is allegedly supplying your property and see what MSN and address details they hold for that. Either post and/or plot.

 

Knowing the above will give you a better clue as to what error has been made where.

[EViS]

What do you mean by 'plot'? How do I know the plot my apartment is located on?

[EViS]

I've just verified the MPRN & MSN that British Gas & ESP Connections Ltd have on record against my address. They were correct. I gave British Gas today's meter reading number and they unblocked my tenant's account and updated him with the total sum he is now due. It sounds quite reasonable for 10 months usage!

 

Thank you both for you assistance in this, it's been much appreciated. I'm just happy it hasn't become any more complicated & the two aforementioned companies sorted it out themselves .

 

On a side note, I noticed there was an 'ON/OFF' leaver next to each gas meter. I take it that turning this to 'OFF' would tun the gas supply 'OFF' into each property, hence as opposed to a burn test, this method could be used to verify which meter is who's?

 

ATD, if you could still answer my above plot question that would be fantastic .

[ATD]

I've just verified the MPRN & MSN that British Gas & ESP Connections Ltd have on record against my address. They were correct. I gave British Gas today's meter reading number and they unblocked my tenant's account and updated him with the total sum he is now due. It sounds quite reasonable for 10 months usage!

 

Good to hear you got it sorted with something as simple as giving an up to date meter read.

 

ATD, if you could still answer my above plot question that would be fantastic .

 

Plot addresses (I should have said Unit as we were dealing with apartments) are how the developer identifies each plot/unit before the postal address is created for the finished development. There can be numerous errors during the change from plot to postal addresses.

 

On a side note, I noticed there was an 'ON/OFF' leaver next to each gas meter. I take it that turning this to 'OFF' would tun the gas supply 'OFF' into each property, hence as opposed to a burn test, this method could be used to verify which meter is who's?

 

Strictly, yes this is true you could do it that way. You do however run the risk of turning off your neighbours supply, and whilst this might not inconvenience them one little bit, it might turn out that they have a faulty gas appliance which does not detect a "flame failure" and fills the apartment with gas once you turn their meter back on. Highly unlikely I know, but I wouldn't want them coming home, turning the light on and blowing themselves and the rest of the building to pieces

 

Mind you, I guess being over charged for your gas would seem like a small problem compared to that!

[callumsgran]

Sorry to hijack but i have to ask

ATD, who is that in your avatar?

He's lush!!!!

[EViS]

Good to hear you got it sorted with something as simple as giving an up to date meter read.

Well it was something more complicated but it seems that BG & ESP Connections between them sorted it out after the first few phone calls from my tenant . I merely confirmed their solution and gave them an upto date reading .

 

One thing I don't know is how they got the first reading on the date that I purchased the apartment and the same day that the tenant moved in??

 

On their updated online statement it says 'We Read Your Meter'... Would they have actually come around on the same day that my tenant opened a new account with them?

[ATD]

Well it was something more complicated but it seems that BG & ESP Connections between them sorted it out after the first few phone calls from my tenant . I merely confirmed their solution and gave them an upto date reading .

 

One thing I don't know is how they got the first reading on the date that I purchased the apartment and the same day that the tenant moved in??

 

On their updated online statement it says 'We Read Your Meter'... Would they have actually come around on the same day that my tenant opened a new account with them?

 

Do you know exactly what the problem was? Just being nosy really, it would be nice to know which of the many possible problems had actually been causing the errors.

 

I doubt they would have actually had a meter read, they may have done, but as long you you/you tenant are happy with the bill, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Sorry to hijack but i have to ask

ATD, who is that in your avatar?

He's lush!!!!

 

Where's the blush smiley when you need it!

[callumsgran]

Here, under more smilies lol

 

Is it you then? Wow!

[morteee]

Here, under more smilies lol

 

Is it you then? Wow!

 

I'll second that 'wow' and raise it to a 'phoarrrrrrrr!

 

[callumsgran]

I'll second that 'wow' and raise it to a 'phoarrrrrrrr!

 

Oi, i saw him first, hands off!!!!

 

 

Cor, what i couldn't do with him lol

[morteee]

just appreciation for aesthetic beauty

 

anyway back to the thread topic...... lol