Hire Purchase - Rejection of Goods

[Hobbie]

Hello All!

 

I'm in need of some help on the subject of Rejection of a vehicle purchased on Hire Purchase.

 

Here's the story so far.

 

1st Aug 2008 - Signed hire purchase agreement at dealership

3rd Aug 2008 - Vehicle was delivered.

3rd Aug 2008 - Engine management light springs to life (Yes same day as delivery)

4th Aug 2008 - Return the vehicle to the dealer, told it is a 'sensor problem', dealer agrees for the vehicle to go to a garage for a 'check'

6th Aug 2008 - Take vehicle to garage, after connecting up to computer it reports several faults, but can't carry out any work without permission from the dealer, back to the dealer who continues to state "Nothing wrong, just a sensor problem". After a heated discussion, dealer agrees to pay for repairs.

8th Aug 2008 - Vehicle booked into garage for repairs, only to be told that the parts have not yet been ordered, and need to return the car the following day as unable to leave it over night at the garage.

11th Aug 2008 - Return back to garage, WRONG PARTS DELIVERED!

15th Aug 2008 - Parts arrived at garage and vehicle is "repaired"

18th Aug 2008 - Early morning notice a strong smell of petrol around the car, 20ltr of the precious unleaded leaked out from "somewhere" and big pool of oil on the road.

18th Aug 2008 - Phone garage, told to take it back to them on 20th

20th Aug 2008 - Take car back to garage, told it is "power steering fluid" and nothing to worry about, until i point out a pool of oil. Part gets ordered.

22nd Aug 2008 - (Today!) Return back to get the leaks fixed, assured it is fixed. Park up at home, and yet another pool of oil on the drive.

 

The car is 3 years old.

 

Spoke with the HP company who said "Return the car to the dealer, and have the dealer return the money to us" yeah right like the dealer will do that, so I gave it a try, went to the dealer and very politely asked to return the car due to problems and that he needs to return the money to the HP company, dealer just laughed and gave me excuse after excuse.

 

Finally, spoke with local TS who have said to take a letter of "Rejection of Goods" with a break down of events, along with a car to the dealer and leave it with them, but I've no idea of what needs to be in the letter.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction as to a letter template or some suggestions of what needs to be contained within the letter.

 

Sorry its a long post, but thought it best to include as much information as possible.

 

Thanks in advance.

HOBBIE

[aj84]

I'm in almost the same boat though i've had the car for 4 months while its been in the dealership repairs for 1 month (or just over) on and off

 

I too am in the process of rejection but need a template of some sort

[Conniff]

Have a read Hobbie and aj and then quote this act:

 

Sale of Goods Act Quick Facts - BERR

 

This will only apply to Hobbie as he has detailed the faults and timetable.

You should adapt to suit your problem aj.

 

Your rejection will be - Non conformation of contract, Inherently faulty at time of sale, Not of satisfactory quality and Not fit for purpose.

 

Quote the acts in your rejection letter.

 

There is a template here courtesy of Bournemouth trading Standards.

 

Sale of Goods

[Hobbie]

Conniff

 

Perfect, absolutely perfect. Just what I had being looking for.

 

Another great reason to be a member on this site!

 

Many thanks.

[aj84]

As per above... greatful for your help as usual. Already wrote the letter:)

[Hobbie]

Well an update...

 

The finance company are refusing to accept the REJECTION stating the vehicle is and can be fixed in the future, reason the finance company are giving is "It is not financially viable for ourselves to accept the rejection."

 

Finance company have given the following options.

 

1) Return the vehicle to the dealer, and ask the dealer to wind-up the deal and return the advance back to the finance company.

2) Return the vehicle to the dealer and "swap" the vehicle for one of similar value.

3) Keep the vehicle.

 

Trading standards are currently involved now as the HP Agreement may be unenforcable, since the dealer does not have a licence to conduct finance on the premises, although TS aren't 100% sure of this...

[JonCris]

The FC are wrong & can't reject your claim on those grounds

 

Also if the dealer has no suitable CCL they are stuffed anyway as they are required, before providing finance to a dealer, so either way they are stuffed.

 

Also if true not just you but all other such transactions this this dealer has transacted will be unenforcebale

[Hobbie]

JonCris,

 

As the FC aren't able to reject our claim on those grounds, what can be done then? since the dealer has supplied a warranty to carry out "most" but not repairs on warranty. The FC have said we need to get all repairs carried out on the warranty, problem with the warranty is it has be to done by the dealer who have said the vehicle has no problems.

 

We're saying it does have problems, such as warning lights coming on the dashboard at all times, engine cutting out, oil leaking, etc...

 

Take it to the dealer to have it repaired on warranty, dealer says nothing wrong with it.

 

FC telling us to have it repaired on warranty.

 

Simple fact of the matter now is, we simply no longer want this vehicle due to the amount of problems it has, including 1 missselling point from the dealer stating the front passenger airbag can be switched off so the baby seat can be fastened in, when in fact it has no option to be switched off.

 

The car is no longer fit for our purpose, nor is it of a satisfactory standard.

 

One other thing the FC has said "It is 3 years old, and therefore expected that mechanical and electrical parts will go wrong, but as it is not financially viable for us to accept the vehicle back from you, and since both parties need to agree this, we will not be accepting your rejection of goods."

 

The car hasn't been used since the immobiliser activated whilst the mrs was driving, cutting the power steering and having to pump the breaks just to come to a stop, but the FC still insist it can be fixed and we have to sort it out.

[JonCris]

What FC say is nonsense & we'll sort that later. Remind me when did your purchase??

 

Have the RAC inspect the vehicle & give you a report (cost £200-300 I think) then if your claims are supported tell the FC you are recinding the agreement sending them a copy & require a refund

 

Also even 3 year old vehicle is expected to be fit for purpose & this is clearly not

[Hobbie]

Jon,

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Date of HP Agreement signing: 1st August 2008

 

Vehicle made available on: 3rd August 2008.

 

Notice of Rejection sent: 22nd August 2008 given 14 days to respond (no responce)

 

Further complaint made on 9th September 2008 via e-mail reminding them of the rejction of goods and requesting a location to deliver the vehicle to.

 

Telephone call from FC stating will not accept our rejection: 11th September 2008.

 

No independant inspection has ever taken place, this was requested to the FC when the problems started and the dealer stating nothing wrong with the car, advised by the FC that it was not necessary for an independant check, so therefore if I paid for this, it would be out of my own pocket and unable to claim any refund from them regardless of the outcome from the report.

 

Thanks.

[JonCris]

If you claim is won then you will be able to recover the expense of the inspection & frankly I don't see that you have any choice as the dealer is denying fault

 

Write to the FC & the dealer telling them of your intentions to instruct independent engineers & the cost will be passed onto them

 

Whatever you do don't let them do it or use any engineers recommended by them

 

Also within 6 months of purchase the burden of proof is reversed They have to prove there where no faults when sold otherwise it's assumed the faults where there when you bought it

[Hobbie]

An update,

 

Had a lengthy conversation today with TS about this, and they've examined the agreement that we signed and some "serious doubts as to the legality of it" TS had spoke with the FC before calling ourselves, and stated the FC company will seek to get an enforcement order.

 

Also TS have now confirmed for 100% the dealer does not hold a consumer credit licence (it was revoked, but TS does not yet know the reason for this.) TS have passed it to now over to the local TS office of where the finance company is located.

 

TS said she was faxing the finance company its findings, the FC phoned us a few hours later, quite upset we've involved TS and not "tried to resolve it ourselves!" I think we have done so and acted reasonably to date.

 

Since the dealer and FC have yet to acknowledge our letters of rejection of goods in writing, we've resent them recorded delivery with a covering letter, giving a 14 day deadline, if at this time neither respond, TS are advising county court proceedings.

 

Finally, reference the dealer with no consumer credit licence, the enforcement section is dealing with it now.

[JonCris]

The FC have got a bleeding nerve. They only have themselves to blame as had they sorted it at the outset you wouldn't have needed to seek help & cause them grief

[Conniff]

I take it no response from anyone as yet Hobbie?

 

Have you let on to the garage that you know they have no CL?

[Hobbie]

Nothing yet, but the Finance company appear to be "worried" though.

 

Todate:

 

My local Trading Standards have contacted the TS local to the Finance Co. to investigate the dealings. (What ever that may mean)

 

My local TS have informed the OFT that the garage/dealer does not have a CCL, and requested that should the Finance Co. contact them get a validation order for the agreement to deny the order, informed by TS that the OFT has informed them the Finance Co. has approached them to get the agreement validated, and is placed on hold pending TS Enquiries.

 

I've not had any contact with the garage, I've sent a number letters "Signed For" all signed for but all gone unanswered, TS enforcement section are dealing with the garage/dealer at the moment, so don't know what is happening with that yet either, as TS are having to wait for other people.

 

The FC are still refusing to accept our rejection of goods, claiming a number of things now, such as that it was sold "below the glass guide price" and "high milage" but have quoted it totally incorrect and don't even know what the milage is! and the best excuse yet "The car is used, and therefore it WILL have problems" these excuses I have all in writing from them.

 

The first payment for the vehicle was not collected by DD by the Finance Co. but instead sent us a letter saying we had to pay by debit card instead claiming the DD was not in place on time. Our bank have confirmed the DD was in place 3 weeks prior to the collection date.

 

Oddly enough though, the Finance Co. haven't phoned us all that often... Which I am very supprised.

Edited September 23, 2008 by Hobbie
Corrected some of my bad grammar :)

[Conniff]

The FC are still refusing to accept our rejection of goods, claiming a number of things now, such as that it was sold "below the glass guide price" and "high milage" but have quoted it totally incorrect and don't even know what the milage is! and the best excuse yet "The car is used, and therefore it WILL have problems" these excuses I have all in writing from them.

 

Hi Hobbie

 

Yes the condition should be reflected in the sale price, but that does not excuse the omission of what was wrong with it and why it was reduced, (if it was).

 

Even if they were selling it for a fiver, they would have to bring to your attention any faults.

[Hobbie]

Conniff,

 

Totally agree and accept what your saying, and I did ask the dealer the question "Are you aware of any known problems or faults..." and I was assured of no problems, and that the car would receive an MOT prior to delivery, well an MOT means nothing really does it, as it does not check/test all aspects of the vehicle, and oddly enough the dealer was the person who issued the MOT also...

[Hobbie]

Just to keep those who subsribed to this thread updated, It is only right I keep the thread up to date.

 

Recently received a telephone call from the Finance Company informing me the account is in the arrears, and charged me £25.00 for the call. Wrote a letter to them asking how it was in the arrears when the direct debit was collected late by them, few days later received a further telephone call from the finance company again saying we've received the letter and it will be dealt with, I asked them not to contact me by telephone unless they've something constructive to say.

 

Checked credit file, and they've marked it as a late payment, will be taking this up shortly.

 

Still going through the process of rejecting the vehicle, local Trading Standards are still on the ball and assisting.

 

6 Weeks on, and still stuck with a car that doesn't work, considering charging them for secure storage....

[JonCris]

You can charge as long as you notify them in advance

[Hobbie]

So If I send them a letter giving 14 days notice of intention to charge £x per 28 days for the safe & secure storage of the vehicle until they make alternative arrangements for the collection of it....

 

Is that enough, would the monthly finance payments we're upcoming be a reasonable amount to charge for the vehicles' storage?

[legalpickle]

So If I send them a letter giving 14 days notice of intention to charge £x per 28 days for the safe & secure storage of the vehicle until they make alternative arrangements for the collection of it....

Providing it's a reasonable amount.

 

Is that enough, would the monthly finance payments we're upcoming be a reasonable amount to charge for the vehicles' storage?

No. I suggest you search on the net and make a few calls to find out how much storage normally costs.

 

 

I also suggest that you directly complain in writing to the OFT about the company selling this agreement without a CCL. Make the complaint about the finance company and the retailer. Should get them rapped on the fists and may make them move! Better still send a letter to both of them giving them 7 days to settle it or you will make a complaint to the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Finally, finance companies are covered under the Financial Ombudsman Service - Financial Ombudsman Service - so you can complain to them if a reasonable conclusion is not reached within 8 weeks after an official complaint.

 

My recommendation is to write a letter of complaint to the finance company clearly stating your problems - even if you've done this before - and advise them that under the FOS complaints procedures they have 8 weeks to satisfactorily resolve this or you may complain to the FOS or issue court action. This keeps all options open.

 

When you get to the FOS stage, if you decide to go through that route, you can request that it be fast-tracked if the payments are causing you financial trouble and you need a replacement vehicle quickly. You would need to ask it in the original complaint form and then write another letter when you get the acknowledgement of the complaint.

 

Send everything by special delivery, not recorded delivery as it isn't guaranteed.

 

If you need help with the letters, then post drafts up here, minus any confidential information and I'm sure one of us will be able to help you proof it.

[Hobbie]

Time for an update.

 

Recently received a letter from the finance company who, to be honest haven't got a clue, as also stated by Trading Standards.

 

They've sent a letter saying that the dealer doesn't need a CCL because it didn't offer any credit!!! Even though the credit agreement was signed on trade premises (with the dealer) and which the finance company have agreed.... doesn't make any sence does it?

 

They've also said that we have continiously REFUSED to have the vehicle inspected and for them to pay for any repairs. This I find quite annoying as they've only once said to us that WE should take the vehicle to a garage and pay for an inspection of the vehicle and send the report to them, this I did refuse, as I requested that their arrange for a garage to collect the vehicle and examine it and for them to settle any charge with the garage, the finance company will not agree to do this. So I won't agree to drive a vehicle to a garage that has the faults previously mentioned in my first post on this thread. Only fair isn't it?

 

They've continued to reject our rejection of goods, claiming that we have not specified what the faults are.

 

Well to sum it up, they've really annoyed me, and trading standards aren't doing much to offer any help or advice, I'm now prepairing to take the matter to court, for the following reasons

 

Credit Agreement is unenforceable as the dealer was/is unlicened and drew up the agreement on the premises.

 

Vehicle is unfit for its purpose (it doesn't work!)

 

The faults (as previously outlined)

 

Is anyone able to offer to tip/guidence on sending them a LBA, I've downloaded form N1 and began to complete it also.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Hobs

[JonCris]

What ARE trading standards doing cos if they won't help with such a blatant disregard for law by a garage & lender what on earth are they for

[legalpickle]

What ARE trading standards doing cos if they won't help with such a blatant disregard for law by a garage & lender what on earth are they for

In my experience the quality of Trading Standards departments varies across the country. Some TS departments are excellent, others are complete rubbish. Unfortunately the OP's local TS department would seem to be one of the latter.

 

The people who are meant to enforce this matter - acting in a capacity that requires a Consumer Credit Licence without one - are the Office of "Fair" Trading [i prefer to substitute the word "Fair" for a 4 lettered word with 'ed' at the end, and then enter Up after that word !], so irrelevant of the court proceedings, I would recommend that the OP writes a letter - feel free to draft a copy here [minus confidential information] for proofing - to the OFT about this issue.

 

If the OP so desires, he could also complain about the behaviour - or lack thereof - of his local TS department to the local Council's complaints department - I recommend a call to the Council switchboard first and to ask for the complaints department to see if it's within their remit and where it can be taken from there.

 

But primarily, I recommend writing to the OFT about it. Also check the CCA register [at http://www2.crw.gov.uk/pr/default.aspx] to see if they ever had a licence and get more details - if they exist - before writing to the OFT.

 

Try and get the company who gave the credit rapped for dealing with a company without a CCL.

 

Also, if the OP would rather not take court proceedings the Financial Ombudsman Service [http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk] is an option.

 

Just my two pennies.

[Hobbie]

Need some urgent advice

 

The saga continues STILL to this day...

 

The finance company have now issued ourselves with a default notice, even though all payments to them are made. It appears that the default notice is issued just because we have a ongoing long term dispute with them, and have exchanged a number of letters in the past months.

 

We now have no other option to but to take the finance company to court, but urgently need some help with the particulars of claim.

 

Local T/S have stated the agreement may not be enforceable and this was mentioned to the finance company by T/S who stated "It might not be, but we can always get an enforcement order if that be the case"

 

The problem is it needs to be done this week, as unable to leave it any longer.

 

Thanks in advance.