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kensington and chelsea council PCN residents motorcycle parking bay


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Hi, i need advice on dealing with a PCN i recieved from parking my motorcycle in a residents parking bay. I have parked in this bay on and off for the past few years and never had a problem. I have been parking my motorcycle in london for the past 8 years and I didn't actually know the council had these bays...i thought all motorcycle bays were free!

 

Anyway i found out that this particular bay had just been coverted form the last time i used it. Its really depressing because if i had known i wasnt supposed to park there i would not have done it. If i had seen signs warning me i could have parked somewhere else. After i had rung the council i went back to the bay and saw that there were street markings saying m/c permits only. There are no other signs or information about the bay or anything else that i could have read to tell me i was not supposed to park there. I need to know if the kensington and chelsea council need to clearly sign post these bays as they do with normal residents parking bays. If there is no clear explination of what a m/c permit is or any other information about the bay then how is anybody supposed to know where they stand? Is there a case for me here do you think?

 

thanks in advance,

 

Robert

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hi, ok took a bit longer than i expected but i hope this helps. There is no sign and i as i never knew about the new residents bays i didnt bother to read the markings on the road. can anyone tell me if i can challenge this ticket. i need to pay it in a week but id rather not as i just cant afford it!

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s628389010_798874_5770.jpg

 

hi, ok took a bit longer than i expected but i hope this helps. There is no sign and i as i never knew about the new residents bays i didnt bother to read the markings on the road. can anyone tell me if i can challenge this ticket. i need to pay it in a week but id rather not as i just cant afford it!

re read post #2 it is good advice. if the markings are not in the tSRGD and they don't have (proof of) approval from the Secretary of State then you have a case. Dft may be able to help with finding out if there is approval.

No picture of the bay ? one would help as per post 2

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Sorry for the ignorance but..what

 

tSRGD and Dft stands for??

 

I have the same case as I was parked in a m/c permit only bay that until before I went on holiday on the 1st August was free as no fines were issued although the new marks were there since at least a month and a half.

 

Came back from holiday 4 fines. And there is a scooter still there that I believe has a collection of fines, looking inside the plastic bag there are at least 8 fines...poor him.

 

But someone knows if it is legal to enforce parking restriction (i.e. change a free bay to a permanent m/c permit bay) without regulating it with a revised sign next to the bay?

 

that in other countries like Italy is illegal! how come that the traffic act or similar acts are not enforcing it?

 

thanks

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There is no legal road marking stating m/c permits so unless there is a sign on the bay or the Council has special authorisation to use the road marking without a sign the contravention cannot be enforced. Post a photo of the bay if possible.

 

Blimey! We agree on something!

 

What street? More than one of these in K&C and you are not the only victim.

 

-

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TSRGD is the law on signs and markings The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 signs and markings have to comply or have special authorisation from the Secretary of State (actually signed by a senior underling of course). The DfT - Department for Transport - google is your friend, as is the search facility. also check out 'de minimis'

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Dear green and mean,

 

could you expand a bit your concept?

 

Are you saying that is legal to change a bay restriction and omit the sign?? just writing something on the road?

 

What about advising the residents of the change or for example issuing a warning notice.

 

how come that we could all park the scooter in these "new bays" for at least two months without a single fine or warning and all of a sudden, by coincidence in august when people are normally on holiday, they start issuing fines like mad??!

 

I mean is not this behaviour unlawful and misleading?

 

thanks for your help!

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Dear green and mean,

 

could you expand a bit your concept?

 

Are you saying that is legal to change a bay restriction and omit the sign?? just writing something on the road?

 

What about advising the residents of the change or for example issuing a warning notice.

 

how come that we could all park the scooter in these "new bays" for at least two months without a single fine or warning and all of a sudden, by coincidence in august when people are normally on holiday, they start issuing fines like mad??!

 

The delay in issuing a PCN may be due to the Council allowing for people to be away and give them a chance to move or read the warnings posted locally.

 

I mean is not this behaviour unlawful and misleading?

 

thanks for your help!

 

It is legal to change the bay and the changes have been widely publicised since 2007, I don't even live in the area and I knew because it was in the London papers.

The signage is another matter, the signage is there it can be seen clearly on the road it says 'm/c permit holders only'. What you need to establish is if the bay markings are legal ie approved by the govt. When the last set of markings got published there were no m/c permit bays, thus there are no standard markings.

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ok. thanks for your suggestion. I will try however I still found wrong that such a change is not published by a new sign. Why are parking permit signs, as well as pay and display signs, posted in every parking? Becuase it is important to let someone know the rules applied to that bay.

 

I do not think it is right to presume that everyone has access to internet and read the borough news, or read the newspaper to check if any change is going to apply in your area.

 

I can assure you that there was no evident sign posted nearby the bay explaining of the change.

 

Thanks

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ok. thanks for your suggestion. I will try however I still found wrong that such a change is not published by a new sign. Why are parking permit signs, as well as pay and display signs, posted in every parking? Becuase it is important to let someone know the rules applied to that bay.

 

I do not think it is right to presume that everyone has access to internet and read the borough news, or read the newspaper to check if any change is going to apply in your area.

 

I can assure you that there was no evident sign posted nearby the bay explaining of the change.

 

Thanks

 

Without wishing to sound rude if you didn't notice 'permit holders only' in large white letters painted on the street why would you notice any other sign? You also state you had been parking in the 'new bay' for 2 months without getting a PCN yet at the same time claim the bay changed overnight without warning....which is it?

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hi,

 

has anyone had any progress on finding out whether these markings are valid or not? it strikes me that the term 'm/c permit' is both new and ambiguous and so under the Local Authorities' Traffic orders Regulations 1996 (SI 1996 No.2489) Regulation 18 (1) the coucil have aduty to ensure the precise nature of the regultion is made known unambiguously to the parking bay user. "where any order relating to a riad has been made, the order making autority shall take such steps as are necessary to secure before the order comes into force, the placing on or near the road of such traffic signs in such positions as the order makng authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to the persons using the road." i find it hard to belive that 'mc/ permit holders only' written on the ground can be viewed as "adequate information" when as far as i am aware all other bays in RBKC that require some form of residents permit are designated by signs with considerably more detail mounted on lamp posts etc above the space.

 

I have the same problem as i returned from two months away yesterday having left my scooter in an "m/c pemit holder only" bay which i have been parking in daily for a few months since it was changed from a "solo motorcycles only" bay. Since i had not heard of any implementaion of a new kind of motorcycle parking permit and there was no signs with any mention of the requirement of a residents permit i assumed the name change was no more than a rewording rather than a redesignation. i didnt recieve any fines for the months i was in london and saw that almost all other bikes in the bay had no parking permits and so thought i was right in my assumption. i returned yesterday to find mt scooter had been towed and i have 11 fines with a total expense as it stands of £1480! i'm a student with no access to that kind of money and made a genuine mistake so i'm very keen to fight this. i'm going to go dowwn to the RBKC townhall tomorrow morning to makk further enquiries but would bereally grateful for anymore information and view points anyone has.

 

Thanks

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Hi,

 

you dhould ask to RBKC under the FOI 2002 right to see the TMO and the exemption letter they apparently got from the DfT not to put up the road sign.

 

I am also going to ask about the coverage in the local press as they said they did. Strangely enough there is no indication on when the new scheme has started in their website. They say 1st April but in most of the bays by that date the works was not even finished or started.

 

I have checked their press release and from Aug08 back to Oct07 there is not a single one announcing the change or when the new scheme was coming into force.

 

I think we should try to get together as well as other people in our same situation as the borough behavior has clearly been misleading on our expenses.

 

ciao. Send me you private email in the message I have sent you before

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Dear green and mean,

 

could you expand a bit your concept?

 

Are you saying that is legal to change a bay restriction and omit the sign?? just writing something on the road?

 

He/she is saying that yes it is legal to change a restriction - anywhere in fact and that the matter has been advertised in line with the requirements of the law.

They go on to say that the necessary legal documents (the Traffic Managment Order) have been completed and appear to be all in order.

(I note though that they do not offer a source for these for you to check) Possibly available on-line?

 

At face value the omission of roadside signage and the wording used on the carriageway is not compliant with the TSRGD.

They may have been given special authorisation by the DfT for this and it is this, as has been said, that will resolve the matter.

If they haven't - you win.

If they have - you lose.

Simple as that.

 

Just wanted to summarise because threads on this forum seem to frequently detract from what is actually needed and go off at tangents.

 

Here is the relevant map of the K&C bays.

It will be interesting if anyone can compare, on site, any significant differences between the new Resident bays and those converted from free. i.e. What signage exists at the 'new' ones?

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is it not possible that even with special authorisation from the DfT an adjudicator can still deem that this authorisation was contrary previous legislation concerning clarity of sign posting for road users and thus invalid? i know that obviously is a much bigger battle but for me it may well be worth it. i'm afraid i dont have any photos but possibly an additional point of interest (and i don't know if this is true for all of them but) in the bay i recieved the fines except "m/c permits only" written on the floor the only other thing which could be interpretedd as a sign were the diagrams on the metal rings attached to the floor for chaining bikes. They showed a blue 'P' parking sign and a diagram of a bike next to it. almost the identical diagram is shown on page 46 of the 'know your traffic signs' publication on the DfT website to indicate free parking for solo motorcycles. any toughts?

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Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea

NEW MOTORCYCLE PARKING ARRANGEMENTS

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES) (PAY

AND DISPLAY) (HIGH TARIFF) (AMENDMENT NO ) ORDER

200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES) (PAY

AND DISPLAY) (MEDIUM TARIFF) (AMENDMENT NO )

ORDER 200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES) (PAY

AND DISPLAY) (LOW TARIFF) (AMENDMENT NO ) ORDER

200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES) (PAY

AND DISPLAY) (BASIC TARIFF) (AMENDMENT NO ) ORDER

200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES)

(RESIDENTS’ PARKING) (AMENDMENT NO ) ORDER 200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (PARKING PLACES)

(MOTORCYCLE PERMITS) (NO ) ORDER 200

THE KENSINGTON ANDCHELSEA (WAITING AND

LOADING RESTRICTIONS) (SPECIAL PARKING AREA)

(AMENDMENT NO ) ORDER 2006

1. Notice is hereby given that the Council of the Royal Borough of

Kensington and Chelsea (hereinafter referred to as “the Council”)

propose to make the above-mentioned Orders under sections 6, 45, 46,

49, 51 and 124 of, and Part IV of Schedule 9 to, the Road TraYc

Regulation Act 1984, as amended by the Local Government Act 1985,

the Road TraYc Regulation (Parking) Act 1986 and the Road TraYc

Act 1991.

2. The general eVect of the Orders would be:

(a) to introduce new “Residents” Solo Motorcycle Permit Parking

Places constructed with security ground anchors in which motorcycles

displaying such a permit may be left at any time. The permit would cost

£18 per year.

(b) to continue the provision of free “Visitor” Solo Motorcycle

Parking Places.

3. To implement the scheme, on-street parking amendments would be

made as follows:

5 metres of Residents’ parking would be converted to “Residents” Solo

Motorcycle parking in:

All Saint’s Road—opposite the side of No 68 Tavistock Road; Arundel

Gardens—the south-east side, 8 metres north-east of Ladbroke Grove;

Ashburn Gardens—opposite No 7; Basing Street—opposite the side of

No 262 Westbourne Park Road; Beaufort Gardens—outside Nos 17

and 18; Beaufort Street—outside Nos 1 to 8 Beaufort Mansions;

Bevington Gardens—outside Nos 23 and 25; Blenheim Crescent—

outside Nos 62 and 64; Bolton Gardens—outside No 38; Bracewell

Road—outside No 1; Bywater Street—at the side of No 134 King’s

Road; Cadogan Street—outside Nos 45 and 47; Cambridge Place—6

metres west of Victoria Road; Campden Hill Road—opposite No 57;

Cathcart Road—opposite Nos 26 and 28; Chelsea Manor Street—

opposite the side of No 224 Fulham Road; Chesterton Road—outside

Nos 121 and 123; Clabon Mews—the northern east to west arm, the

north side, 2 metres east of the north to south arm; Colville Terrace—

opposite No 27; Cornwall Gardens—opposite Nos 31 and 32; Coulson

Street—at the side of No 12 Anderson Street; Dalgarno Gardens—

opposite Nos 66 and 68; Drayton Gardens—outside No 18; Drayton

Gardens—outside Nos 100 and 102; Eardley Crescent—at the side of

No 51 Warwick Road; Earl’s Court Square—opposite Nos 1a to 5a;

Elgin Crescent—outside Nos 19 and 21; Elgin Crescent—outside Nos 1

to 16 Glosworthy House; Elm Park Road—outside No 46; Elvaston

Place—the south side, 3 metres west of Petersham Mews; Fawcett

Street—at the side of No 23 RedcliVe Gardens; Finborough Road—

outside Nos 163 and 165; Fulham Road—opposite Nos 137-153 Pelham

Court; Hesper Mews—at the side of No 40; Highlever Road—outside

Nos 68 and 70; Holland Gardens—at the side of No 35 Russell Road;

Holland Park—outside No 64; Holland Road—outside No 4;

Hollywood Road—outside No 5; Hornton Street—the north-east side,

6 metres north-west of Campden House Close; Hortensia Road—the

south-west side, 9 metres south-east of Fulham Road; Hyde Park

Gate—opposite No 35; Kelso Place—the south side, 11 metres west of

Stanford Road; Kensington Court the north-east side, 3 metres northwest

of Kensington Court Mews; Kensington Park Gardens—outside

No 4; Ladbroke Grove—outside No 337; Ladbroke Road—at the side

of No 14 Ladbroke Terrace; Ladbroke Road—outside Nos 84 and 86;

Lansdowne Road—outside No 45; Lexham Gardens—outside No 57;

Lexham Gardens—opposite No 86; Lower Addison Gardens—at the

side of No 166 Holland Road; Marloes Road—the south-west side, 10

metres north-west of Scarsdale Villas; Nevern Square—outside No 1;

Old Brompton Road—outside No 200; Onslow Gardens—at the side of

No 8; Palace Gardens Terrace—the south-west side, 8.5 metres southeast

of Brumwick Gardens; Paultons Street—outside The Pigs Ear Pub;

Paultons Square—opposite No 58 and Paultons House; Peel Street—

outside No 5; Philbeach Gardens—the north-west side, 8 metres northeast

of north-east boundary of No 110; Powis Terrace—the south-west

side, 12 metres north-west of Talbot Road; Queen’s Gate Gardens—the

east side, 8 metres north of Cromwell Road; RedcliVe Road—outside

No 64; RedcliVe Street—at the side of No 64 RedcliVe Gardens; Royal

Hospital Road—the south-east side, 15 metres north-east of East Road;

St Ann’s Villas—outside Nos 2 and 4; St Lawrence Terrace—at the side

of No 22 Chesterton Road; St Loo Avenue—outside Nos 21-30 Rosetti

Gardens Mansions; Shawfield Street—at the side of No 18 Reesdale

Street; Stanhope Gardens—outside No 41; Sydney Street—outside No

60; Tadema Road—outside Nos 6 and 7; Talbot Road—at the side of

No 26 Colville Square; Thurloe Square—opposite No 5; Thurloe

Square—outside No 33; Tite Street—outside No 26; Wetherby

Gardens—outside No 17.

5 metres of Pay and Display parking would be converted to “Residents”

Solo Motorcycle parking in:

Bolton’s Place—opposite Bousfield Primary School; Bramerton

Street—outside No 1; Chepstow Villas—outside No 23; Clarendon

Road—outside Nottingwood House; Collingham Road—at the side of

No 30 Collingham Gardens; Cornwall Gardens—opposite No 50b;

Courtfield Gardens—opposite No 22; Draycott Avenue—outside Nos

104 and 106; Edwardes Square—at the side of Nos 1 to 45 Leonard

Court; Elsham Road—outside No 38; Exhibition Road—outside Nos

68 and 70; Finborough Road—outside No 128; Godfrey Street—

outside Nos 22 and 23; Kelfield Gardens—the south-east side, 7 metres

north-west of Finstock Road; Kenway Road outside the rear of No 11

Hogarth Road; Holland Street—outside No 23; Ladbroke Road—

opposite No 13; Lawrence Street—the north-east side, 5 metres north of

Cheyne Walk; Lexham Gardens—the south-east side; 25 metres northeast

of Cromwell Road; Oakley Street—at the side of No 2 Upper

Cheyne Row; Oakwood Court—opposite Nos 15 to 30; Old Brompton

Road—outside Nos: 1-92 Roland House; Onslow Square—opposite No

61; Pembroke Road—outside No 37; Philbeach Gardens—at the side of

No 117 Warwick Road; RedcliVe Place—at the side of No 11

Finborough Road; Royal Crescent—opposite No 44; St James’s

Gardens—outside St James’s Church; StaVord Terrace—at the side of

Nos 10-12 Phillimore Gardens; Tedworth Square—the north-eastern

arm, the south-west side, 5 metres south-east of Tedworth Street; The

Little Boltons—at the side of No 18 Tregunter Road; Wilbraham

Place—at the side of Nos 157-158 Sloane Street; Yeoman’s Row—

outside No 17.

5 metres of single/double yellow line would be converted to “Residents”

Solo Motorcycle parking in:

Addison Road—outsideNo112; Beaufort Street—outsideNo108; Bute

Street—outside No 19; Cornwall Crescent—outside No 4; Courtfield

Gardens—at the side of No 129 Cromwell Road; Dalgarno Gardens—

opposite Nos 1-43 Clement House; Earl’s Court Square—outside St

Cuthbert Primary School; Harcourt Terrace—the south-west side, 5

metres south-east of RedcliVe Square; Hasker Street—outside Nos 39

and 41; Mossop Street—outside No 25; Peel Street—outside Nos 67 and

69; Portland Road—outside Nos 92 and 94; St Mark’s Road—outside

Nos 49/51/53; Slaidburn Street—outside No 53.

Existing free “Visitors” Solo Motorcycle parking bays would be extended

by 5 metres in to “Residents” parking in:

Brompton Square; Evelyn Gardens—near junction with Roland

Gardens; Lancaster Road; Linden Gardens—outside No 24; Lowdnes

Square; Marloes Road—near junction with Lennox Gardens; Ovington

Gardens; Russell Road—near junction with Kensington High Street;

Russell Road—near junction with Russell Gardens; St Ervans Road;

Swan Walk; Templeton Place.

Existing free “Visitors” Solo Motorcycle parking bays would be extended

by 5 metres in to Pay and Display parking in:

Abingdon Villas; Bina Gardens; Cadogan Gardens—opposite Nos 51

and 53; Cadogan Place; Draycott Avenue—near junction with Ixworth

Place; Lots Road—opposite Ashburnham Road; Lowndes Square;

Marloes Road—near junction with Lennox Gardens; Nevern Place;

Neville Street—near junction with Fulham Road; Park Walk—near

junction with Fulham Road; RedcliVe Road.

Existing free “Visitors” Solo Motorcycle parking bays would be extended

by 5 metres in to single/double yellow line in:

Fernshaw Road—near junction with Fulham Road; Hans Road—

outside No 12; King’s Road; Manresa Road—outside the library;

Petyward—near junction with Lucan Place; Pont Street; Southwell

Gardens.

5 metres of Pay and Display Parking would be converted to New

“Visitors” Free Solo Motorcycle parking in:

Kempsford Gardens—at the side of No 324 Old Brompton Road; St

Mary Abbot’s Place—at the side of No 353 Kensington High Street;

Stratford Road—outside No 6.

5 metres of single/double yellow line would be converted to New Free

“Visitors” Solo Motorcycle parking in:

Campden Hill Road—the south-west side, 14 metres south of Aubrey

Walk; Wright’s Lane—the north-east side, 18 metres south-east of the

access road leading to Sovereign Court.

Existing Free “Visitors” Solo Motorcycle parking bays would be

converted to “Residents” Solo Motorcycle parking in:

Acklam Road; Addison Avenue; Balliol Road; Barlby Road; Berkeley

Gardens; Bonchurch Road; Bramham Gardens; Cadogan Gardens—

opposite Nos 67 and 69; Cadogan Gardens—outside No 55; Cadogan

Square; Cale Street; Cambridge Gardens—junction with Portobello

Road; Cambridge Gardens—outside No 175; Canning Place; Chelsea

Manor Street—opposite Oakley Gardens; Chelsea Square; Cheyne

Walk; Clanricade Gardens (west); Cliveden Place; Collingham Gardens;

Colville Terrace; Cornwall Gardens; Courtfield Gardens; Cromwell

Crescent; Dove Mews; Draycott Avenue—near Cadogan Street;

Eardley Crescent; Earl’s Court Square—junction with Warwick Road;

Earls Court Square—opposite No 49; Egerton Gardens—junction with

Egerton Crescent; Egerton Gardens—near Brompton Road; Egerton

Gardens—outside No 67; Elvaston Place; Embankment Gardens;

Evelyn Gardens—opposite Nos 48 and 49; Evelyn Gardens—outside

No 28; Fawcett Street; Fernshaw Road—outside Neville Court; Flood

Street; Freston Road; Gertrude Street; Gilston Road; Gloucester Walk;

Grove Cottages; Halsey Street; Harrington Gardens: Hewer Street—

opposite No 20; Highlever Road; Holland Park; Holland Park Gardens;

Hollywood Road; Ifield Road; Iverna Gardens; Kensington Park

Road—near Arundel Gardens; Kensington Court; Ladbroke Road;Launceston Place; Lennox Gardens—outside St Columbus Church;

Lexham Gardens; Linden Gardens—near entrance to Garden Mews;

Lonsdale Road; Lower Sloane Street; Lucan Place; Nevern Square—

outside Garden View Hotel; Nevern Square—opposite Nos 40 and 42;

Nevern Square—opposite No 17; Norburn Street; Old Church Street;

Onslow Gardens; Oxford Gardens; Oxford Gardens—opposite the Play

Centre; Palace Gate; Park Walk—outside Nos 2 and 2a; Pembridge

Villas—outside No 29; Pembridge Villas—opposite Nos 13 and 15;

Pembridge Villas—near Pembridge Place; Penywern Road; Pitt Street;

Powis Terrace—outside Nos 25 and 25a; Priory Walk; Princedale

Road—outside No 57; Queen’s Gate Place; Queen’s Gate Terrace;

RedcliVe Place—outside No 17; RedcliVe Square—opposite Nos 68 and

72; RedcliVe Square—opposite Nos 18 and 20; St Mark’s Place—

junction with Cornwall Crescent; St Quintin Avenue—junction with St

Helens Gardens; St Quintin Avenue—outside Nos 67 and 69; Smith

Street; Sirdar Road; Southern Row; Stadium Street; Stanhope Gardens;

Stanley Crescent; Stratford Road; Tadema Road; Telford Road;

Tetcott Street; Thorndike Close; Thurloe Square; Treadgold Street;

Tregunter Road; Upper Addison Gardens; Vicarage Gate—adjacent to

No8; Vicarage Gate—adjacent to No9; Walmer Road; Walton Street—

outside St Saviours Church; Wornington Road.

4. A copy of each of the proposed Orders, and other documents giving

more detailed particulars of the Orders, can be inspected at the Town

Hall, Hornton Street, London W8 7NX, during normal oYce hours

on Mondays to Fridays inclusive.

5. Persons desiring to object to any of these proposals or make any

other representations in respect of them, should send a statement in

writing to that eVect, and in the case of an objection, stating the grounds

thereof to the Council’s agents in this matter, the Project Centre, SaVron

Court, 14b St Cross Street, London EC1N 8XA, quoting Ref PCL/

TMO/NHS/3221970122 by 5 January 2007.

6. Under the Local Government (Access to Information) Act 1985, any

letter you write to the Council in response to this notice may be made

available to the press and to the public, who would be entitled to take

copies of it if they so wished.

G Swinburne, Director

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