Unenforceable Credit Agreement?

[BelstarBomb]

Look at it like a game of chess. You have to build up to your checkmate and cover your bases at each step.

 

It's when you are in checkmate that Halifax will have to put their hands up and admit defeat.

 

Patience is the other word to take on board!

 

BB

[carolelittle]

Hi all, I sent a letter to Collect Direct UK who act for egg saying that my agreement does not comply with s61(1) of the CCA 1974, it does not have a term concerning the credit limit (raither, it defines and "Approved Limit") as required by s6 of the CCA regs 1983 so the courts would be prevented from granting such an order by virtue of s127(3).

Today I received a letter back fromCoolect Direct which reads as follows:-

Our client has examined this agreement, and your account, and are satisfied that there is no valid dispute and that they have a legally enforceable agreement with you. This, at the very least, is evidenced by your use of the account and receipt of the credit funds. Our client has therefore fulfilled their obligation with regard to your alleged dispute.

The Ministry of Justice and the Office of Fair Trading have recently issued a consumer alert, warning people of the risks of being mislead over the enforceability of consumer credit agreements. We therefore strongly recommend you seek legal advice if you intend to rely any further on the alleged breach of any of the acts that govern this account,pertaining to your liability to our client, as your current understanding is inaccurate.

 

So can any one help me further?,what do I do now?????

Thanking you in anticipation

[Viscount Stair]

How about the following reply?

 

I note your clients' self-satisfaction.

 

It is true that the OFT and MoJ have issued warnings about claims companies.

 

That does not affect the underlying legal position, which is clearly established by the Court of Appeal anf House of Lords precedents.

 

Although the use of a credit token is relevant for certain aspects of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, it is completely irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the agreement under which it was issued was properly executed under sections 60 and 61 and the Agreements Regulations, whether or not it contained the prescribed terms set out in Schedule 6 to the Agreements Regulations and, as a consequence, whether or not it is enforceable under sections 65 and 127, section 127(3) being particularly relevant in this respect.

[Hopster]

I have had Capquest after me for EGG and now H L Legal - solicitors - for Capquest. I shall be be sending them £1 tomorrow for a true signed copy of my executed agtreement but I know that they cannot produce a signed agreement as the application form and agreement to their terms and conditiond required only a 'tick'. Has anybody out there beaten Egg yet because of an unenforceable agreement ?

[Series3]

Tick?

was it an on line application?

when did you take it out?

[Hopster]

Yes a tick (having clicked on the in the box) and it was an online Egg card Credit Agreement and the date was January 2006.

[Series3]

a tick in the box does count as a signature..

Still, I would see what you get back, probably screen dumps .

 

Series3

[carolelittle]

Hi all again, thanks for the quick reply yesterday, will send that letter off and see what happens, but I have another question, I was being pressured by MINT to settle my account immediately as I was remortgaging my house and the lender said I had to clear the debtas I had defaulted, so I made them an offer to clear the debt, now looking at all the messages in the forum I now know that my agreement with MINT was unenforceable and what I paid was unfair, is there anything you can do about this????

[BelstarBomb]

Hopster,

 

As legal action has been threatended, you need to send off a CPR request as well as a SAR. Both will force them to show what exactly they will rely on in court and if a properly executed CCA is not there, then their case is seriously damaged.

 

BB

[bazip]

HI everyone,

just a bit of advice before I emabark upon these challenges.

When writing to the banks/credit card or DCA's, am I correct in that I should never sign any of these letters so as to ensure my signature is not used unscrupulously?

[carolelittle]

Hopster,

 

Hi BelstarBomb,

 

Thanks for the reply, but just to confirm, MINT had taken my case to court and was requesting a charge to be placed on my property, this is one off the reasons why I made an offer to settle quickly, so can I still take action against MINT even though the account has been paid and closed.

[tpisgod]

Hi all.

 

following a phone conversation i've found out that my bank is currently unable to find a copy of my loan agreement for an unsecured loan of £60,000.

 

as this is over £25,000 am i covered by the CCA?

am i covered by any other agreement?

 

if they can't find the agreement is this unenforceable?

 

many thanks

 

tpisgod

[Vijnana108]

Hello,

 

I am new on this site.

 

I downloaded copies of letters to Lenders asking them for the CCA. I did that for my sister who owes a lot of money on a lot of cards and is paying them off under some arrangement.

 

All the letters were sent off on the 3rd of March. We received the first reply on the 20th of March.

 

It is "An application to open a Dorothy Perkins account" from 1998.

 

After reading the whole thread it seems that the relevant bit of their reply would be the section which says:

 

FINANCIAL DETAILS OF THE ACCOUNT

We will determine your credit limit from time to time and give you notice of it. Interest will be charged on teh account at the rate of:

 

2.15% per month APR 29.0 for monthly payments by direct debit and 2.25% per motnh APR 31.0 for payments by any other means.

The rates of interest and the APR's may be varied by us by giving you notice in a manner permitted by law. The APR's quoted to not take account of any such variation.

The minimum payment due from you each month will be the greater of 5 pounds or 5% of the outstanding balance on the account (or the full balane if les than 5 pounds). The statements you receive will show the minimum payment amount required and the date for payment.

 

INITIAL CREDIT

If you are given the right to take credit when you sign this Agreement the right to cancel referred to in the box below will not apply to this Agreement.

 

The rest of the headings are:

 

CUSTOMER INFORMATION AND DATA PROTECTION

 

CUSTOMER CONSENT

 

It is all on one page and was obviously filled out in the store on a simple application form of the store.

 

The reply came from CL FINANCE LIMITED and said:

 

Dear Ms *********

 

Re: Dorothy Perkins Account - **************

 

We refer to your letter in which you made a request for information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We have been able to obtain a copy of your original agreement and last statement on the account listed above and these are enclosed herewith.

 

We can confirm that your current outstanding balance is: *****

 

We trust this is satisfactory.

 

 

Can anyone help me understand what our position is and what, if anything, we should do next?

 

I do appreciate any help.

 

Thanks.

 

John

[BelstarBomb]

Firstly - Recent posters,

 

Can I suggest that we all start our own individual threads as it makes it really difficult and confusing to answer your specific questions.

 

Cheers,

 

Carol, I'm sure that you will but they will be as tight as a bats naggers to get the money back from. Unless a member of the site team corrects me, i would suggest that you SAR them to include a certified copy of the CCA and statements to include ALL payments made to the account since inception to when it was closed. Even though the account is settled, they should still keep all the information for minimum amount of time - 6 years I believe.

 

My thought process is that you need to go down the route and get them to admit in court that they don't have and never had it before you can them make a claim for compensation.

 

Don't worry, it's not as scary as it seems and they will probably admit they don't have without you having to go to court.

 

You having nothing to lose except your £10 for the SAR so give it a go and let's see what comes up in the wash.

 

When you respond, start your own thread so that you the answers and responses are specific to you!

 

best wishes,

 

BB

[Hopster]

I agree but how do I start a thread please ?

[BelstarBomb]

Hi Hopster,

 

Look at the top of this page on the left hand side and you will see 'General' just above 'Unenforceable Credit Agreements'.

 

Click on that and it will take you to the main page on this section on the forum.

 

Just above the big box that has the 'House of commons' in it on the left hand side, you will see 'New Thread'. Click on that and type away.

 

BB

[Hopster]

Thanks BB. You are a star.

[Stubie]

HI everyone,

just a bit of advice before I emabark upon these challenges.

When writing to the banks/credit card or DCA's, am I correct in that I should never sign any of these letters so as to ensure my signature is not used unscrupulously?

 

Hi Bazip,

 

Its a good precaution to take.

 

I'm not aware of anyone having their details pirated in this way but good practice suggests that you don't send cheques (which have your signature on, of course) or sign letters. the legality of the letter is not affected by the lack of signature but it prevents unscrupupous practices, should the company be of a mind to indulge. There are plenty of examples of dodgy goings on, why not that, if you present the opportunity.

 

good luck

[Hopster]

good thinking.

[babydoll0141917]

Hi ,,can you great caggers take alook at this for me..ive posted on my other thread but not had much help yet!!

 

UPDATERight guys ive just received this CCa from robbers way reqarding an Marbles/HFC account..looks like it has just been printed off,,no signatures anywhere, not even any room for them,, Also the account number on the agreement aint mine lol ,,, What a bunch of twits they are ...Also they have sent me 2 of the same agreements with other peoples names and addresses on them ..OHHHH DEAR ...What happened to Data protection??took the card out july 2005..was the late fees 12.00 quid then?? received no other paper work from them..So i have a newly printed of agreement with no sigs and not even my account number,,also have 2 other poor peeps agreements ..where do i go from here guys??http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/P1010052.jpg

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/P1010051.jpg

ive also noticed that it says the bank of scotland plc are the money lenders....Ithought it was the beneficial bank or some1 like that

[boothyboy]

Hi BoothyBoy,

 

No worries. I am only passing on what I have learnt from the good people here and at Consumer Credit Support.

 

You have to go at this patiently and know what you are doing otherwise the banks and the DCA's will try to take you as mug. Sending off for your CCA's is the first step on a long journey that may well take you the best part of a year, so don't enter this if you are not prepared for that and all the dirty 'tackles' they will try to throw at you.

 

Keep me posted,

 

BB

 

Hi BelstarBomb,

 

Thanks for your previous post,, yer am ready for the dirty tricks and he long journey, with the support from consumer action i hope it will be a succesfull one.

 

I sent the cca's by recorded delivery on the 30/3/09 they were signed for on the 1/4/2009,, it is now coming close to 16 days with no response from the Mint or virgin..

 

How can I be sure whether I have sent the cca's to the correct address (I sent the cca's addressed to the 'data controller' to the address on the back of the statement)??

 

Have you any advice on what I should do next??

 

Thanks again

 

Ian

[james_jnr]

Sorry to jump in and not start a thread but I only have a quick Q for the experts;

 

If a credit card company gets taken over by another and you do not sign any new agreements (ie. Morgan Stanley recently bought by Barclaycard) does this mean the original CCA stands?

 

Thanks

[1mansquest]

Yes, the original agreement stands, but were you to ask BC for a copy of the original agreement, they would have to provide the original Morgan Stanley agreement.

 

1MansQuest

[dpick]

Yes original agreement and any original documents referenced by that agreement.

 

dpick

[james_jnr]

Thanks guys, I'm going to start my own thread so people can follow my progress..I'll post link as soon as...