A & L - Enforcable Agreement???

[KAR22]

Hi Multay,

It seems we are in a fairly similar situation, I too shall be watching your thread with interest.

Just a thought, but have you sent them the telephone harassment letter?

It should stop the calls but dont hold your breath as they do need reminding now and again

 

KAR

[Multay]

To be honest they haven't been ringing...They have a DCA on the case called RMA but as soon as I requested the agreement they stopped...It's the same with all of the ones I have CCA'd..With the noteable exception of mint who just left me a phone message satying that if I didn't ring them before 9.00pm tonight they are going to take me to court!!!Haha, I don't even have to worry about recording the nasty threats now..They do it for me.....I am sending them the letter tomorrow though..

 

Out of five CCA only A&L has replied...The rest have gone quiet for over a month now..No letters, no calls...I have even prompted them twice (once after 12 days and once after 42 days)...And still nothing..

 

Just wondering what A&L will do, to be honest I'm happy to go all the way with it - Just want to be sure that the agreement is unenforceable which is why I keep asking people to look at it :o...If they get a CCJ then so be it, unlikely I think though...My credit file is shot to sh1t anyway..If they were reasonable and offered a settlement I might even consider that if they agree to remove the nasty things they say about me from credit file..But I guess only time will tell..

[KAR22]

My situation has been ongoing since approx September 2006 when I hit financial difficulties, had they have agreed to a repayment plan that I could afford then I wouldn't have considered going down this route. But they didn't, they wanted more (pro rata) than my other creditors, hence the hike in interest rates, charges etc that have contributed to the massive growth in my debt to them. They have already admitted to me that I must have repaid what I have spent on my card more than 10 fold, so I have sent them a S.A.R. Once I get the documentation, I shall decide on my next move.

 

Best of luck.

 

KAR

[Multay]

Same to you KAR...I'm just going to wait a while before considering the SAR route...

 

They not taken you to court yet then???

[KAR22]

No, they haven't taken me to court yet, I asked them to before I even asked for the CCA. My thinking was that if it went to court at least the interest would stop and I'd at least have a chance at paying the debt off. I'd be very surprised if they took me to court now, especially knowing they have no enforceable agreement. If it goes to court I would assume now that it would be me that brings court proceedings once I have received all the info from the S.A.R

 

 

KAR

[PriorityOne]

So, just so I understand...They have complied with my CCA request BUT what they have sent is unenforceable in a court??? Yes...

 

So in theory my letters are kinda correct in so much as I am asking for an enforceable agreement. Yes again.... but, you don't really want them to send one to you, do you ? When I took them on around 18 months ago, they didn't give up quite as easily and offered to "construct" an Agreement, which would look like the one I could have signed (apparently) ... and even set Shoosmiths (solicitors) on me. Once Shoosmiths were told to sling their hook though, A&L flogged it out to Fenton Cooper et al. No constructed Agreement ever appeared either....

 

Thanks,

 

[Multay]

But am I correct in thinking that they can construct an agreement for the puposes of the CCA request but when in court the have to produce the original?

 

Surely they can't use a copy??? Anyone could knock one of those up..I could do one from them saying they gave me the money coz they like my hair...

[PriorityOne]

But am I correct in thinking that they can construct an agreement for the puposes of the CCA request but when in court the have to produce the original?

 

Surely they can't use a copy??? Anyone could knock one of those up..I could do one from them saying they gave me the money coz they like my hair...

 

They can construct what they like... but then so could I. If it was as easy as that, I could come up to you and say "Oi Multay... I've just constructed an Agreement that you might have signed with PriorityOne PLC.... you owe me £100k. Would you pay me ?

 

No... they need the original.... and they know this, which is why they don't want to talk to you anymore. Just file it away... and when the next bunch of muppets contact you, you can quote from it in your response....

[Multay]

That's the plan I think...I was going to be reasonable but why should I??? They don't seem to want to treat me like a human being so they can kiss my ar$e if they think they are gonna get any of my hard earned without a judge telling me to hand it over...

 

I've paid them more than enough over the years and if they can't even be bothered keeping documents that they rely on then more fool them..

 

If I did my job like that I was have been given the boot years ago..

 

We'll see what the next move is...Good thing is that I have a few quid stashed just incase it all goes Pete Tong and I have to pay up...I'm just saving the money I would normally pay...Just incase..Then I can offer 10% as a F&F and go from there...

[Pinky69]

I recently got a constructed credit agreement from the BOS. I wrote and told them that the OFT's view on this is that it is impossible to tell whether or not a constructed agreement bears any comparison with the original as the original is missing, so they are on a hiding to nothing. It also doesn't have my signature on it so I wonder what was the point of them even bothering.

[steven4064]

You might like to refer to para 7.3 of Practice Direction 16 of the Civil Procedure Rules

7.3 Where a claim is based upon a written agreement:

 

(1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing

[The GodMother]

Steven.

 

How does this effect constructed agreements? i am thinking the same as P1 here. Just because they can construct a areggement it does not mean i cant. it has been proven that anyone can photoshop something to look like something else.

[steven4064]

THat is why they have to produce an original in court. If they can't then they do not have a case.

 

the law says they can cobble something together to satisfy a request under s78 but that is just so that the debtor can find out the terms of the agreement (in case they forgot). Only the original is enforceable in court.

 

THe question then is, origonal of what. It either has to be a properly executed agreement or a document signed by the debtor contaniing within itself the prescribed terms. Nothing else will do. In particular, an original application form which does not have the prescribed terms is not enforceable.

 

To summarise - the only thing that is enforceable is an original document signed by the debtor containing the prescribed terms.

[The GodMother]

We no that some companies still try and rely on a fake/cobbled together agreement in court anyway.

[babybear39]

Allegedly

[Multay]

Not much of an update really, but I just got another computer generated letter. They may decide to default my account if I don't pay it...Same stuff as usual....

 

I reckon the proper threats should start soon...Good news is that I have nothing from RMA (the DCA they got involved in this) so it's not all bad...

[Multay]

Another little update...I sent A&L a reply to the "default" letter just saying the same thing as before and they sent me one back saying" please refer to our previous letter"..And that was it....So, I'm going to leave it now and just see what happens...

 

On a lighter note - It seems Westons (demanding money for no reason, for a debt I know nothiing about) didn't have a CCA and have returned the debt from no where back to the OC...Shocking..

[Multay]

Well, it seems I was a bit previous. Got home yesterday to find a lovely letter from Optima Legal. Apparently A&L have no choice but to possibly go for a charging order on my home...They don't want to, but I may have given them no option....But they may consider reducing the amount outstanding...

 

Not sure if I should reply to this as I don't actually own a house?

 

You would have thought that a firm of solicitors would have checked that out before sending the threat...

 

Any advice?

 

Cheers...M

[PriorityOne]

Stupid bergers.

 

Mine was sent to Shoosmiths, so you can use the letter I sent to them if you like (by rec. delivery)... adapted slightly for your needs and to include recent new legislation. They dropped it immediately, although never wrote to tell me as much....

 

Dear xxxx

 

Yiour Ref xxxx

 

I refer to your letter of xx/xx/xx, which was received yesterday morning.

 

Frankly, I am surprised at the need to remind a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my legal request for a copy of my Consumer Credit Agreement; made under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974 and received by A&L on xx/xx/xx.

 

Should your client now persist with threats of legal action through yourselves however, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by yourselves and A&L under The Data Protection Act 1998 and The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR), as well as your client's non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.

 

I trust that this letter clarifies both my position and your own and look forward to your written confirmation that on this occasion you have made a genuine mistake and your files are now closed. Any further correspondence to the contrary however, will be filed as part of a formal complaint with a number of regulatory bodies and without further notice to yourselves.

 

Yours sincerely/faithfully,

[Multay]

Thanks for that....I might just leave it though, it's obvious that this is the first of many so I might wait and see what happens...What would happen if they go for a charging order even if I don't own a property??????

 

Surley they wouldn't be that crazy????

 

Would they????

[angel_1]

hiya all

 

multay, thats the best i ve now heard it all, you dont actually own a property????

so they might has well put the charging order on the queens palace since you are one of her subjects,,,,hahah

 

sorry this shows the incompentence of these muppets, doesnt it,

 

how empty these threats are,,, when they do not even check the basics,,

 

i bet you couldnt believe that when you read it?

 

wow, everyone i take my hat to you all, when you do say they send empty threats they sure do,,,

 

i think you have had good assistance and ive learnt a lot along the way so i shall subscribe to the thread and see what happens, good luck and well done to all so far in your post, thank you all im learning all the time

 

have a fun day ciao maz

[palomino]

Thanks for that....I might just leave it though, it's obvious that this is the first of many so I might wait and see what happens...What would happen if they go for a charging order even if I don't own a property??????

 

Surley they wouldn't be that crazy????

 

Would they????

 

 

Probably.

But prior to the hearing for the charging order the property owner (from the Land Registry entry) is notified and will obviously come steaming up to them to point out their error. Mind you they might just realise their stupidity before actually formally applying for the charging order.

[Multay]

I know....I couldn't believe it when I read it...I did own a property but not any more..I really would love to be sat in court saying to the Judge"I did tell them that I didn't own a house but they carried on anyway"

 

I wonder what the judge would say to that!!!

 

Imagine that one for vexatious litigation...lol

[PriorityOne]

Thanks for that....I might just leave it though, it's obvious that this is the first of many so I might wait and see what happens...What would happen if they go for a charging order even if I don't own a property??????

 

Surley they wouldn't be that crazy????

 

Would they????

 

They could still go for a CCJ.... unless you were to defend it. They would need one before a charging order anyway.... and the fact that you don't own property won't stop them from going for one if they feel like it. That doesn't mean they'll get one; just that they might try for one.

 

Personally, I've always thought it best to let the other side know that you know where you both stand in order to minimise the stress of court action, whether lawful or not.

 

It's entirely your call though.

[Multay]

I suppose I could copy them in on the letters I have already sent...I have sent two to A&L telling them that the agreement is illegible, has missing pages and doesn't have the prescibed terms within the signature document but they say it's fine...I told them I will defend if they try cousrt action too..

I keep looking at the agreement wondering if I'm doing the right thing but it looks like rubbish to me...

I'm trying not sent letters that are too nasty though - I don't want them to produce them in court and say that I have been obstructive - I tell them that the agreement is non compliant and could they send me one that is....