Foster Carers

[Lula]

Originally Posted by Lula

I rather think that you are the one that is giving the "me me me" attitude.

 

 

If by sticking up for foster carers then so be it !

 

 

So sticking up for Foster carers involves whinging and whining about how much money you dont get? I think that you are doing most Foster carers a grave injustice here.

 

f you cant say anything constructive then perhaps you should post somewhere else?

 

Well, I will say somthing constructive if you will

 

[phatram]

As for giving your own children their child benefit to teach them to be responsible, I am sorry, but that is doing completely the opposite! Effectively, you are giving them more than they would be expected to have to spare if they were on the breadline, and if I understand you right, getting it with nothing to earn it in exchange. What's going to happen when they turn 16 or 19 and the CB stops?

 

What gives you the right to say that?

Also child benefit is for the benefit of the child, not cigarette companies or brewers or anyone else.

Our grown up children are very very good with money (unlike me) 'cos we taught them how to be and 1 is doing very well in pharmacy and 1 is doing a masters degree in nursing.

As for your last two lines I dont understand that at all, sorry BW.

Mr P

[pt2537]

Well I have seen people get reprimanded for posting in the wrong thread. Why is it so bad that I try to start a thread for foster carers?

If you cant say anything constructive then perhaps you should post somewhere else?

 

 

PLEASE NOTE

 

you will undoubtedly get differing opinions, especially on subjects like this.

 

however, if you post comments like that above asking basically for people who only agree with you to post on a thread it really serves little purpose and while you may not like it, it breaches no rules for users to post on your thread so long as they are not insulting or rude

[phatram]

Originally Posted by Lula

I rather think that you are the one that is giving the "me me me" attitude.

 

 

If by sticking up for foster carers then so be it !

 

 

So sticking up for Foster carers involves whinging and whining about how much money you dont get? I think that you are doing most Foster carers a grave injustice here.

 

f you cant say anything constructive then perhaps you should post somewhere else?

 

 

Well, I will say somthing constructive if you will

 

We do, to the people that count.

You,as others, seem to be missing so many points as to make me think you are posting just to wind it up !

[phatram]

PLEASE NOTE

 

you will undoubtedly get differing opinions, especially on subjects like this.

 

however, if you post comments like that above asking basically for people who only agree with you to post on a thread it really serves little purpose and while you may not like it, it breaches no rules for users to post on your thread so long as they are not insulting or rude

Hi pt,

Our phone has been red hot with fellow carers showing their support for our campaign and they ALL have found a lot of the posts on here insulting.

We dont blame people for not knowing the truth, but would hope they would post after doing at least some research and not just having a blind opinion.

Different opinions are good but find out the facts first.

Cheers and good luck with the law assignment.

Mr P

[PriorityOne]

My own children received all of their child benefit each month to buy their own clothes, make-up, toiletries etc - this is teaching them to be responsible!

Disagree... helping around the house is teaching them to be responsible. Looking for part-time work (when they're old enough) is teaching them to be responsible. Giving in to demands, expectations and tantrums is making a rod for your own back and in the long term... for the rest of society as well.

Why should foster children be treated any differently? Because they've missed out on the positive role models that most of us have taken for granted, that's why. We work for an Agency Your problem with following "rules" may find its basis here... not sure. As already said, I know foster carers who do work... and specialise in caring for young adults (14-18, including offenders, young mums of 15, permanently excluded children etc who local authorities CANNOT place because of their behaviour In other words, they need an EBD school and there aren't enough places, etc. Have you had any training with EBD kids ?.... 'coz I doubt your Agency has given you the full picture of what you've taken on. To be honest, the Education system is not much different and only people of a certain temperament can hack this kind of environment.... depending on the level of support they get within it. Does the Agency provide you with any kind of emotional support with this ? that's why one of us HAS to be at home 24/7 and is not allowed to work. My husband works and enjoys the break!

It seems silly that I receive the same allowance for a "man" of 16 for clothing and food as I would for a child of 3 doesn't it - and these issues are what we are trying to raise with the Government.Unfortunately, the young people we care for will probably never work All kids should be taught to have aspirations in life beyond a life on Benefits... (some exceptions obviously) and are already so aware of their human rights, benefits( this of course is drilled into them by social workers so as to protect them?) do-gooders who often do more harm in the long term... I agree they will be able to claim when they leave us, and housing they can rely on - it is frightening and a reflection of the sad society we live in today. Agree.. I think we throw far too much money at them Agree... - a lot of which is wasted on cigarettes (even though they are not old enough to smoke This is where you should step in, surely ?)& phone credit! If it's allowed in the first place... - but we are legally bound to pass on that money (for clothes, pocket money, leisure, toiletries etc) directly to them. "Legally bound ?".... have you seen the paperwork that stipulates these "direct" payments ? I suppose with younger children this would not happen. If you are "legally bound" with teenagers, then you would surely be equally "legally bound" with the younger ones.... have you queried this ?

We are trying so hard to re-educate these young people so they can function in Society, but the system really does not help them, does it? Unfortunately, blaming "the system" has become the modern cop out phrase for most grumbles.... It also sounds as if you need more emotional back-up than you're currently receiving from your Agency. If I were you (and I know that I'm not, before you remind me)... I would make look into this aspect of your role first instead of getting swept away with the financial side of things. You've already mentioned the need for a break in an earlier post.

Mrs P

 

[phatram]

Would love to take a break but dont get paid holidays !

My wife will read your post and maybe answer it later P1.

We have had loads of training and continue to do loads of training.

And we are not allowed to step in where fags are concerned we can only advise them its bad for them etc

As Catherine Tates grandma would say,

"what a load of old ****" eh?

I agree with a lot you've said whether my wife will or not I dont know.

But thanks anyway for at least taking some time to join the debate.

[PriorityOne]

Would love to take a break but dont get paid holidays !

My wife will read your post and maybe answer it later P1.

We have had loads of training and continue to do loads of training.

And we are not allowed to step in where fags are concerned we can only advise them its bad for them etc

As Catherine Tates grandma would say,

"what a load of old ****" eh?

I agree with a lot you've said whether my wife will or not I dont know.

But thanks anyway for at least taking some time to join the debate.

 

Phatram.... I really think you need to take certain issues up with your Agency. Some of the things you've said just don't seem right.... I have the greatest admiration for what you and your wife are doing, but reading between the lines... don't think the financial issue is your biggest grievance here.

 

EBD kids are difficult.... and you may need more support than you're getting.

 

[Robertxc]

Interesting thread. The issue of foster carers funding has been rumbling on for a long time, and part of the problem is the disparity that exists in different parts of the country. There's also a difference between being a carer for a local authority and being employed by an agency. The other thing to bear in mind is that the tax allowances for income from fostering are so high (£10,000 per annum, plus £250 per child per week), that it's unlikely they will ever pay tax on their fostering income. Another issue that muddies the waters is that foster carers are treated as being self-employed for tax credit purposes - with the total receipts being disregarded as income, which means that if neither of the foster parents does anything other than fostering, and they have children of their own, they will be eligible for the full whack of tax credit, plus council tax and housing benefit (if they rent their home).

[phatram]

I foster for an agency, and because my children have now left home, I have 2 spare bedrooms. If I take 3 foster children, I am eligible for tax at the same rate you are. Having no children at home, I do not receive any tax credits, I subsidise my daughter at university, my mortgage is £1000 per month and I get no benefits whatsoever!!!! I do my job for the love of the children I care for in the hope that I may change their lives just one little bit!

[Robertxc]

I foster for an agency, and because my children have now left home, I have 2 spare bedrooms. If I take 3 foster children, I am eligible for tax at the same rate you are. Having no children at home, I do not receive any tax credits, I subsidise my daughter at university, my mortgage is £1000 per month and I get no benefits whatsoever!!!! I do my job for the love of the children I care for in the hope that I may change their lives just one little bit!

That is interesting. I thought that you had to be a carer for a local authority to be eligible for Foster Carer Relief. The point I was making was that it's difficult to make sweeping judgements about what carers get paid, because there is so much variation. For example, I konw one carer who'se total financial package for one child come to about £150,000 per year. Needless to say, the child is profoundly handicapped and they have just about every agency you can think of in their lives. A huge sum of money, no doubt, but they and their family's comitment to that child is for life.

 

I personally wouldn't work for an agency, even though it would undoubtedly mean more money (apparently Swiss pay £500 per child per week! :o). Agencies tend to get the chjildren that the local authority couldn't place internally, which often (but by no means alwayss) means serious bahavioural issues. Also, as has been pointed out on this thread, agencies don't tend to pay anything if you don't have a child, wheras our local authority pay the fee element regardless.

[phatram]

Your comments are interesting. Every foster carer is entiltled to the foster carer tax relief, regardless of local authority or agency, and I am not arguing about the financial rewards for this great job - all I am asking is that the relevant authorities recognise the job I do - I deserve holiday pay, my "employers" should pay something toward my pension etc. Social Workers visit once every 6 weeks, what happens in the meantime? I am that social worker - why do I not receive the same recognition that they do? I put the needs of the children far above what they do - I spent 12 hours at the hospital whilst my foster daugher gave birth, would a social worker do this? No I don't think so, it was outside her hours of work!!

I love, and am very proud of what I do, all I ask is that I am professionally recognised for what I do.

[Robertxc]

But surely if you qualify for the tax relief you must also qualify for NI contributions? We actually get two whole weeks paid holiday a year where we're supposed to put the foster kids into respite care while we and our kids go to Disneyland.

 

What a lot of people reading this thread might not realise is that if all foster carers were paid properly - to the extent that it bacame a realistic profession for more people - the savings to their local authority would be enormous. Consider this: The eldest sibling of two of our kids is in a care home not far from here. The care home only houses four kids. It's a good place, which is well run and the kids are, for the most part, pretty happy to be there. To keep one child there costs an average of £1,500 per week. Do you think I'm exagerating? £1,500 per child per week = £312,000 per year. The care home will have a full time manager (£30,000+), plus at least eight care workers working three shifts a day, seven days a week. Add to that all the transportation, pocket money, professional services etc. etc. etc. I think the couple of hundred quid a week that foster carers get paid looks like pretty good value compared to keeping kids in care home.

[phatram]

Thank you so much for your post! I was beginning to get so frustrated by peoples's post who really do not have a clue as to the real picture. We have taken children from residential homes into ours so that they could be with their siblings, thus saving thousnds of pounds, but only foster carers seem to realise this. I really appreciate your post as you restore my faith in human nature - we all are trying against all odds to help these unfortunate children who have missed out on their earlier formative years. I salute you.

[kennythecelt]

Hi Phatram

 

I admire the work foster parents do and have worked closely with them in Scotland.

 

I'm assuming you're from England and may not be aware of the recent proposed changes in Scotland. Here is a link which outlines recent proposed changes here which I hope is useful.

 

These increases are needed to try and stem the flow of long term fosterers who could not financially continue and to try and increase the pool available. Research showed the likely "costs" if the position was not stemmed.

 

Best of luck regards, kenny

 

http://www.fostering.net/resources/documents/financial/allowances_survey_report_scot_2007.pdf

[Robertxc]

The other point I wanted to make is that the idea that foster carers should only do it out of love is totally false, and not a little patronising.

 

The argument goes that a very altruistic person (probably a single middle aged woman, who doesn't work), should 'take kids in' and care for them. That person shouldn't ask for any money because that's not how 'normal' families operate, because to do so would in some way contaminate the child's life. The obvious paradox here of course is how the carer is supposed to provide the child with all the thing he/she needs and wants if they can't work and don't get paid? I can assure you, looked after children want all the same cr@p that your kids want, and they will be no less shy in demanding iPod, Playstation, Bratz etc etc etc. Foster carers working for nothing is not only unrealistic, it' actually not particularly desireable anyway. We get paid a professional fee by Fife Council, regardless of the number of children we look after. What that means is that if we have a space available and they need to place a child in an emergency they can call us up and more or less oblige us to take them in (subject to certain boundaries of course). If on the other hand we were doing it out of pure altruism, it would be much more difficult for them to impose upon us. On top of that, nowadays we also have far higher expctations placed upon us in terms of professionalism. Would you be prepared to let The Care Commission carry out a detailed inspection of your house if you were an unpaid volunteer? I certainly wouldn't.

[kennythecelt]

I also have to endorse the sentiments in Roberts posts which are a realistic outline of "costs",

[Robertxc]

Hmmm, these are only the recommended changes Kenny, they haven't been adopted by every cooncil yet.

Hi Phatram

 

I admire the work foster parents do and have worked closely with them in Scotland.

 

I'm assuming you're from England and may not be aware of the recent proposed changes in Scotland. Here is a link which outlines recent proposed changes here which I hope is useful.

 

These increases are needed to try and stem the flow of long term fosterers who could not financially continue and to try and increase the pool available. Research showed the likely "costs" if the position was not stemmed.

 

Best of luck regards, kenny

 

http://www.fostering.net/resources/documents/financial/allowances_survey_report_scot_2007.pdf

[kennythecelt]

Sorry Robert

 

Thought they had been agreed for implementation. There was certainly long debate over them, must be Council SWD's dragging their feet re budgets.

 

Perhaps there is merit in all areas of UK taking the issue forward.

 

I have nothing but admiration for the work done and came into contact through voluntary work.

[Robertxc]

Well, Kenny, I pressume you come under Highland Council? If so, they are among the worst payers in cotland, and suffer from a very severe shortage of carers.

[tomterm8]

Would love to take a break but dont get paid holidays !

 

Now, that is utterly wrong, and in my opinion unlawful. Given you are an Agency worker, it is likely that you are dealing with kids with profound problems, and it is essential that you have respite.

 

That's the kind of thing I would be going to an employment soliciter about;)

[Bookworm]

The other point I wanted to make is that the idea that foster carers should only do it out of love is totally false, and not a little patronising.

I don't think anyone has actually said that, Rob. I think that what was said in so many more words is that if one fosters only for the money, then one is in the wrong profession.

 

I don't think that there is any disagreement either that a fostered child is cheaper than having him in a care home, that's just plain logic. So if we want to talk about "patronising" comments, this: "We have taken children from residential homes into ours so that they could be with their siblings, thus saving thousnds of pounds, but only foster carers seem to realise this." takes the biscuit.

 

By the same logic, one would expect Carer's Allowance to be a lot more than £50 a week, considering how much more someone being cared for at home by a non-professional carer would cost if they were in a home/cared for by a professional carer. Yet, that is all one gets, despite the fact that a carer is unlikely to be able to go to work, will have little or no respite, will often be on 24/7 with no relief from a second person, and will often be completely isolated from any help. Oh, and regardless how many people a carer looks after, they are only entitled to one lot of CA, not one per person cared for. And if they're on another benefit like Income Support, their CA gets taken into account. Need I go on?

[phatram]

But surely if you qualify for the tax relief you must also qualify for NI contributions?

 

Hi Robertxc

I pay my Class 2 contribution of £9 (or there abouts). Should I be doing anything else with regards to my NI? Not really sure about pensions etc

Thanks

Mrs P

[phatram]

"I don't think anyone has actually said that, Rob. I think that what was said in so many more words is that if one fosters only for the money, then one is in the wrong profession".

 

 

What do we work for? I think the majority of people know its for money. Its a sad fact but the truth is that has to be the first reason for many many people.Job satisfaction is a bonus.

Mr P

[tomterm8]

If that were true why did you give up a 22k job, for one which earns less than 22k and is probably significantly harder?