CL Finance Ltd. court claim form 2 old HSBC debts **WON** Discontinued

[jumpjet]

Hi PT,

 

IF you are able sometime soon, perhaps you can help me with getting together what I need for court, if it goes that far!

Is there a bundle I need to prepair?

[jumpjet]

hi PT2537,

 

any advise or things I need to prepare for July?

[jumpjet]

hi PT2537,

 

any advise or things I need to prepare for July?

[jumpjet]

Hi all,

 

We recieved a letter today from the Solicitors acting for CL.

 

basically, entitiled "Without Prejudice", they state they wish to bring the matter to a satisfactory conclusion without the necessity of further costs or court action. CL apparently is now prepared to accept a monthly payment on this account....subject to a consent order, three copies of which they have

enclosed for signing and return.

 

Now I may be wrong, but it does seem strange that after all this time the amount they say they require each month just happens to be the same amount that they have been recieving via our DMP since they obtained the account, and they have been recieving this without fail while this claim has been in progress.

The "document" they have sent appears to be designed to resemble an official court paper ( or at least has been set out that way). Now considering they are making a court claim for the whole amouint of the debt (over £3000)

they now want us to agree to the Payment amount which we are already making, which is the reduced amount we originally wrote to them about.

 

As far as I can tell, signing this document would only serve to confirm that they are entitled to claim this money on the details they have, as we would be agreeing to it. I have worked out that at the rate we are now paying, it will take approximatley 24 years to repay this debt and suddenly, from demanding the whole amount at court they now are happy to accept this arrangment. Like I said, I maybe wrong but it does read between the lines that they think they maybe on sticky ground at court. It seems to be an attempt to get confirmation of their ownership of the debt by the back door!

 

Is this legal?

 

All opinions welcome!

[jumpjet]

Any opinions please!

[citizenB]

bump:D

[jumpjet]

Bump!

[citizenB]

scampject, I was going to just bump your thread for you.. However, I note in pt2537's signature, he suggests one of two things.

A: either hit the red triangle and ask for assistance from a mod/site helper,

B: pm him with a link to your thread.

[jumpjet]

thanks for that Citizen B,

I will do. Its just that I know how busy all the helpers are!

Seems a bit cheeky don,t it!

[popeye1]

Seems CL want to deal,if you want to play offer 300 at x amount per month,any default removed , W PREJUDICE

Others will comment if this is agood move or not as your case does a good one ,,,all the best

[nicklea]

Hi all,

 

We recieved a letter today from the Solicitors acting for CL.

 

basically, entitiled "Without Prejudice", they state they wish to bring the matter to a satisfactory conclusion without the necessity of further costs or court action. CL apparently is now prepared to accept a monthly payment on this account....subject to a consent order, three copies of which they have

enclosed for signing and return.

 

Now I may be wrong, but it does seem strange that after all this time the amount they say they require each month just happens to be the same amount that they have been recieving via our DMP since they obtained the account, and they have been recieving this without fail while this claim has been in progress.

The "document" they have sent appears to be designed to resemble an official court paper ( or at least has been set out that way). Now considering they are making a court claim for the whole amouint of the debt (over £3000)

they now want us to agree to the Payment amount which we are already making, which is the reduced amount we originally wrote to them about.

 

As far as I can tell, signing this document would only serve to confirm that they are entitled to claim this money on the details they have, as we would be agreeing to it. I have worked out that at the rate we are now paying, it will take approximatley 24 years to repay this debt and suddenly, from demanding the whole amount at court they now are happy to accept this arrangment. Like I said, I maybe wrong but it does read between the lines that they think they maybe on sticky ground at court. It seems to be an attempt to get confirmation of their ownership of the debt by the back door!

 

Is this legal?

 

All opinions welcome!

 

Hi scampjet,

 

Sorry - haven't had time to read the whole thread in detail, but it appears that paul (pt2537) thinks you've got a very strong case - is that right?

 

You're right when you say that they're trying to get a court order for the debt by the back door. A consent order is a court order that says you and CL have made an agreement (whatever it is) and if you don't keep to it then they can come back to the court and will automatically be able to ge a CCJ against you.

 

I don't know what your position is - like I say I haven't read the thread in detail - if you agree to the consent order then you are admitting the debt and (I believe) you will not be able to un-admit (if that's a word) later on.

 

If you do decide to go this route, check very carefully the terms of what you are agreeing to - there may be some nasty clause hidden in it saying that CL can force you to increase the payments at a later date.

 

However, if you feel that you do have a very strong case then you may wish to decline thhis offer - the choice is yours.

 

Don't know if that's helped any?

[jumpjet]

thanks Nicklea,

 

It would appear that the case is quite strong but moreover...Pointless!

 

We have a DMP with the cccs and as such event though the account ownership may be disputed. The cccs will not stop payments to a creditor because it is disputed, hence we have been paying them since all this began. This was instituted by them when they bought this debt from HSBC. at a payment agreement rate that we held with them at the time. We wrote to them soon after they aquired the debt to explain that the level of payment had to decrease due to a fall in our income when my wife lost her job. they were not willing to accept a lower payment and so brought preceedings. Previously though, they had been cca'd and had not properly replied to this before they had brought the action. When they did respond and we looked closer at the court claim form, we realised that they were claiming for an account number ( current account) which had been closed some 9 months before. the only amount remaining outstanding was that of our managed loan account which carried a different number.

 

On the one hand I would rather not go to court, but I can,t really see what they can gain by taking it this far. they have effectively been accepting payments at the offered amount yet still persuing this action and now suddenly they want to make it official by getting us to sign their agreement. we have had to continue paying them, due to the cccs but never the less do not agree that their paperwork is correct as we have confirmation that the account number they are claiming on and which was assigned to them, is not he account on which the balance is owed.even if they win at court, they have now accepted our offer of payment by telling us what the are willing to accept. Which is actually what theyve been getting paid all along!

 

I can't help thinking that they are not so sure of themselves after all, and can't decide whether I should point all this out to them. I am certainly not going to sign a commitment to pay the debt, when theres a chance ( hopefully a good chance) that it will be ruled that we don't actually have to pay. I am assumeing, and have in fact included this in directions to the judge that if the case is found for the claimant that we will be allowed to pay the balance at the rate we have been paying all along!

 

The only difference being that it will be under order and not at our discretion.

[Blossomandebony]

Hi, Scampjet,

 

CL filed a claim against me recently but it was struck out because they couldn't be bothered filing their allocation questionnaire! And from what I've read on other threads, they are rapidly losing the plot as regards winning any CCjs against people who are prepared to defend!!

 

I think you are right not to sign anything. The fact they think you might sign such a weak document implies that their whole argument is weak. It's the last feeble throw of their poisonous dice, it seems to me. What's more, I reckon the judge will murder them for the way they have acted, i.e. pursuing you or a debt that is already being paid back under CCCS -

 

It may be that Cl realise this and are backtracking to save face. Do they really want this to end up in court? Don't think so . . !

 

BAE

[citizenB]

If it were me, I would not sign anything and continue with the court case. I appreciate that it isnt something you want to do , but reading back it would appear that you have a really strong case. I think by signing a consent order you arent doing yourself any favours.

[jumpjet]

Hi, Scampjet,

 

CL filed a claim against me recently but it was struck out because they couldn't be bothered filing their allocation questionnaire! And from what I've read on other threads, they are rapidly losing the plot as regards winning any CCjs against people who are prepared to defend!!

 

I think you are right not to sign anything. The fact they think you might sign such a weak document implies that their whole argument is weak. It's the last feeble throw of their poisonous dice, it seems to me. What's more, I reckon the judge will murder them for the way they have acted, i.e. pursuing you or a debt that is already being paid back under CCCS -

 

It may be that Cl realise this and are backtracking to save face. Do they really want this to end up in court? Don't think so . . !

 

BAE

 

Thats my feeling too! I dont think we have anything to lose at court, they are there to ensure fair play and we have done all we can to play fair with CL.

We just hope the judge agrees!

[jumpjet]

If it were me, I would not sign anything and continue with the court case. I appreciate that it isnt something you want to do , but reading back it would appear that you have a really strong case. I think by signing a consent order you arent doing yourself any favours.

 

Thanks for your input citizenB.

 

I will definately NOT be signing their agreement! Especially as they have taken things this far!

 

I am wondering whether I should respond though. If only to avoid them telling the court I ignored them.

[citizenB]

I can see your point scampjet.

 

Ummm, something along the lines of ...

 

Dear,

 

Thank you for your letter dated..... I am at a loss to understand why you would want me to sign up to conditions I am already fulfilling via a Debt Management Plan with XYZ.

 

I am not inclined to sign a document such as this with out further explanation as to the repercussions for myself.

 

Yours etc...

 

 

Short and sweet and you havent ignored them:)

[jumpjet]

Yup! thats the sort of thing!

 

Something that asks them what thier intentions are using their own methods (back door) at at the same time says.................come up with the goods......or see you in court!

[citizenB]

Yup! thats the sort of thing!

 

Something that asks them what thier intentions are using their own methods (back door) at at the same time says.................come up with the goods......or see you in court!

 

:grin:

[pt2537]

Hi Scampjet,

 

the advice youve had so far seems spot on,

 

may i ask if you have recieved any orders or directions from the court? if you havent then maybe 1st thing monday you should give the court a call and find out if any directions have been issued as you may not have recieived them

 

 

it would be good if you could clarify the position on the orders first

 

Regards

paul

[jumpjet]

Hi PT,

 

No I have not heared a thing! The only correspondence has been the letter from

solicitors with the agreement to pay enclosed. Marked "WITHOUT PREJUDICE"

We will contact court first thing as you suggest.

[pt2537]

well youve filed a Allocation Questionnaire so i would have expected by now that you would have received a set of Directions

 

If you explain to the court that you are just checking as you have not recieved any form of orders from the court and you just want to make sure you havent missed anything ie lost in the post

[jumpjet]

thanks again Paul,

 

Will do! As i said, I have recived nothing!

[jumpjet]

Here is a copy of the order.

consent order.pdf

[citizenB]

Hiya scampjet.

 

There in point number 3 on their consent order... 'Liberty to Apply'

 

I did a google and this document confirms my suspicions.

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/advisers/docs/cap/pdf/bul07-07.pdf

 

At the moment you are paying the amount via DMP. They now want to agree to that same amount in the consent order.

 

It is my belief that a court/judge would not order you to pay more.

 

CL have given themselves a lot of protection in that one sentence in that they can at some time go back to the court to have the repayments varied. It doesnt do you one ounce of favours. IMHO that is.