Me V UKCPS Ltd

[Simon7685]

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[pt2537]

Hi Simon

 

firstly the car park, was it owned by a local authority or is it a private car park?

 

if its a private carpark then they are charging you a penalty for a breach of contract which is unlawful

 

under contract law, a claimant can only claim for actual losses as a result of the breach of the contract. in this case how would they justify 60 for 15 minutes parking, its truely disproportionate

 

i would write to them with something alongthe lines of......

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

I have received correspondence from yourselves dated xxxx 2007. This letter / demand is asking me to pay £xx for an alleged contravention of parking rules at .

 

I should remind you that as the owner of a vehicle I personally cannot be held responsible for any contract allegedly agreed to or implied by any other driver of my vehicle. I respectfully request that you take this matter up with the driver of the vehicle at the time the alleged contravention took place, unfortunatley i am unable to help you with the identity. I am not liable for this charge.

 

I will not be providing any payment and your continued pursuit of this matter will constitute an offence under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. I consider the matter closed and am explicitly instructing you not to contact me again for any reason.

 

 

regards

 

 

hopefully that should shut them up

 

 

regards

 

paul

[demon_x_slash]

Don't pay. There are plenty of threads on this forum about unenforceable private tickets, including the sticky at the top.

[pt2537]

also there is a very usefull link here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/65341-private-parking-companies-charges.html

 

this tells you all about private parking tickets

[Simon7685]

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[pt2537]

Hi simon,

 

no probs, good luck with these fools. despite what they will try and tell you, as the registered keeper it is not your responsibility to pay private parking fines. local authority such as council ones are a different matter but they are backed up by legislation.

 

let us know how things go

 

regards

paul

[Simon7685]

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[Barnsley Boy]

Simon,

 

Don't worry.

 

Unfortunately the company will not stop sending you threatening letters just because you have written back. They will continue to lie to you - that is the business model, send out their ludicrous demands by 2nd class post. If even a small percentage pay then it is worth their while.

 

Stand firm and ignore the reminders. Sending annoying letters is just about the limit of their powers. If you do get a letter claiming to be from debt collectors then respond to this - state the debt is in dispute and instruct the debt collectors to refer it back to the PPC.

 

Just about the only thing the PPC could actually do is issue proceedings in the small claims court for recovery of a debt. They are very unlikely to do this since:

 

1. It costs them money

 

2. It would give you a platform for a fair hearing, your defence is free.

 

3. They would lose

 

If it came to it, which 999 out of a 1000 it doesn't, there are people who would relish preparing a defence. Me for one but there are genuine experts here also.

[Andy7807]

Ditto above....We had a ticket from UKPC in February, have had the letters from UKPC and debt collectors letters (Hunter Forrest) have told them to pass back to UKPC and not heard anything since, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[pacepeter]

do the owners of the private car parks get any money from ukcps i wonder?

[Simon7685]

//

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[Simon7685]

//

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[Andy7807]

Is it form Hunter Forrest? That will be the debt collectors on behalf of UKPC, they sometimes send their first letter with a UKPC logo. Anyhoo, I would write back saying the registered keeper is not liable for these charges (which are not enforceable anyway), only the driver of the vehicle and they have to prove a debt is outstanding. I rang Hunter Forrest and a bored woman answered, I told her we wasn't paying and to return it UKPC, a big sigh and she said ok. I have heard nothing since. They will try and intimidate you with the letters ie, you will get a CCJ and won't be able to get a loan/mortgage, yadder yadder yadder. Highly unlikely that they will go to court. I have been itching for them to try it on so that they can be exposed for what they do. They will work on percentages that a lot of people will pay in ignorance. Call their bluff or ignore, you decide, the outcome will be the same...nothing will happen.

[Sidewinder]

Also their charges are legal and fair and will be enforcced through the courts!

 

Enforced against whom? They could only sue the person responsible for the alleged breach of contract. They would first have to establish who the defendant would be in order to file a claim.

[Simon7685]

//

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[Conniff]

Simon, why don't you get a disabled badge?

[Simon7685]

Hi Everyone

 

I was waiting until I got DLA awarded, as this guarantees a disabled badge.

 

Simon:)

Edited March 3, 2009 by Simon7685

[Simon7685]

//

Edited March 16, 2009 by Simon7685

[peternet]

Parking on private land without permission is tresspass and therefore a civil not criminal matter. By parking on private where signs indicate you will be entering into a contract is ok as long as you fulfil the terms of the contract - i.e. pay the parking charge whatever samount that is.

I guess these charges are set at a rate to discourage parking - because who wants unauthorised people parking on their land - land which is there for permit holders , delivery drivers and emergency services. Indeed it is often a planning requirment that these areas are kept clear of vehicles so emergency services have access. In many cases there are adequate public car parks avaialbe nearby but people cannot be bothered to use them.

Excess charges to cover costs of monitoirng these private land areas and collecting unpaid charges are perfectly legal if explained on the signage.

 

Turn this around a little if someone parked on your driving blocking your access you would take all measures to have the vehicle removed and try to recover costs from the vehicle owner - wouldnt you.

[Conniff]

I would agree that if there was never any room to park in a store carpark because the majority of bays were taken up by non customers shopping elsewhere, then it's right an proper that a charge is made.

Agree the charge might even be set to try and deter non shoppers, but in any case, I don't think anyone can disagree with them doing this.

If a would be customer can't park, then they are likely to go elsewhere, so a lost sale.

[pt2537]

Hi Peternet

 

one thing you have not mentioned is that Penalty Charges for breaching hte terms of a contract are prohibited and therefore are NOT legal.

 

under contract law and privity to contract the parties who enter into a contractual agreement have rights to recover losses as a result of the other parties breach of the contract now i cannot see how you can suggest that a chagre upwards of one hundred pounds in some cases can be a genuine pre-estimate of losses incured by the land owner,

 

 

your analogy is a little wide of the mark as if someone parked on my drive this would be an tortious act of tresspass not a breach of contract

 

regards

paul

[peternet]

if there is a ticket machine it is an invitation to park under the contractual conditions on the signage or ticket machine. Many of these private land sites do not have tickect machines because they are for permit holders only (e.g. office staff shopkeepers etc) or the land is just not meant for parking on

[pt2537]

in addition to my last post,

 

any contract entered into is between the land owner and the driver of the vehicle,

 

its a shame these parking companies cant get this simple fact into their heads as they often chase the registered keeper for parking charges

 

now while this is the case under road traffic laws that the registered keeper is liable for parking tickets from local authorities ect, the same does not extend to private parking companies,it is the driver who enters the contract and therefore is liable NOT the RO,

 

also by sending information to the Registered keeper the parking companies are also breaching Data Protection Legislation too

 

regards

paul

[peternet]

Is there not something called liquidated damages? - where I believe the excess charges/damages are agreed in the initital contract. Courts do allow costs in the hundreds of pounds region - I imagine running an office and employing people is not a cheap activity - all costs.

As i browse these forums it amazes me how people claim to be law abiding citizens EXCEPT when it comes to legitimate charges for entering a legitimate contract - the law is not just about criminal cases is it

[peternet]

Paul - there is no breach of the data protection act in contacting a registered vehicle keeper about the whereabouts of their vehicle!

I would be interested in your comments on ANPR (automatic number plate recognition camera technology) where tickets are not issued - increasing number of companies are using htese i believe