Welcome Finance secured loan - sold to coast now resale to swift advances!!

[steven4064]

It's a copy but I don't think it's enforceable as it stands for the reasons I gave. (I guess I may have missed something though as I can't see PPI on it either)

[razorc]

PPi is on it where it says

 

Optional payment protection insurance - £1375.05

 

hope its not enforceable fingers are crossed

[steven4064]

Have they sent you a copy of the other side with the T&Cs on? If they have, is your signature on that side too?

 

I have asked one of my colleagues who knows more about credit agreements to take a look.

[razorc]

its on the reverse of the agreement i scanned in

and no our sigiture is only on the agreement side

[conar686]

its on the reverse of the agreement i scanned in

and no our signature is only on the agreement side

 

The T&Cs technically should be above your signature, however them being on the reverse may persuade any court that you knew what you were signing.

 

The PPI was probably mis-sold as I don't believe for one minute they explained the whole process to you, despite your signature. For instance did you receive separate T&Cs in relation to the policy or were you asked whether or not you had a product that would give you the same cover.

 

Finally I think all the other Prescribed terms are present so is probably enforceable.

 

The only dispute that I can see have is the PPI write to them and ask for the main sum removed & all interest payments made by you to be refunded to the loan.

 

Have a look at the PPI pages for more info http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/

[razorc]

i have got the PPi off now , but they want us to sign a new agreement , i can scan that in aswell if anyone care to take a look for me

 

also they have agreed to take of all fee's and interest that have been added on since we disputed it

 

thansk all again for your time and help

[hellhasnofury]

i have got the PPi off now , but they want us to sign a new agreement , i can scan that in aswell if anyone care to take a look for me

 

also they have agreed to take of all fee's and interest that have been added on since we disputed it

 

thansk all again for your time and help

 

Hello Razorc,

 

Excellent news re the ppi being taken off, are they giving it to you or reducing the balance of the loan.

Maybe scan the new agreement to see what they propose.

 

They are being extremely nice, which would make me a bit suspicious, sorry don't mean to be a party pooper, but it is in my nature.

 

Did you ever send them a ca request for a copy of your original credit agreement. It just makes me think that they may not have it?????? or they know the one they have would not be enforceable.

 

Food for thought

[razorc]

i cca them , i can scan that in aswell , gimmie 10 mins a'll get it scanned

 

there taking it of the loan and reducing the payments

 

thanks for quick reply

 

Heres the copy they sent me when i cca them

 

agreement-copytheysentCCA-CAG.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

 

and heres the new agreement they want us to sign

 

agreement-new-CAG.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

anyone care to check thanks all

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Razorc,

 

How much of the loan had you already paid??? In this new credit agreement when does the 60 monthly payment run from. From the fist date that you took the loan out or from when you sign it now?????

 

Why is the starting balance at £5,000 and they are applying an acceptance fee??????? plus interest??????

 

Sorry but the document is a little hard to read as it is so small.

 

I noticed that their copy of the ca your signature is now dated????? Who put the date on??????

[razorc]

hello hellhasnofury

 

if we sign the new agreement they say we have only 18months to pay at £132.00

 

we have paid it for 3 years the payments. and they are saying it will run form the first date we took the loan out , i query that also why does it say 60months , they said they have to do it like that redo the own loan agreement..

 

The date is on the copy i have also

 

i can rescan it in if its hard to view.

 

thanks for your time

[conar686]

Razorc

 

I agree with all the questions by HHNF especially it's is very hard to read.

 

The loan is for the same amount as the original, it should be less any payments made (or credit given to you for this amount) and you definately should not be paying fees already paid.

 

The seem to want you to agree to charges especially £20 for non payments. In light of the OFTs case this is likely to get reduced. I'd ask if the whole list are conditional on you getting the loan or if the charges change in the future can they be applied to the agreement retrospectively.

 

You should still post the new & old agreements on

Consumer Credit Act Agreements and ask PeterBards opinion, especially in respect of the APR to ensure the cost of credit matches the APR you're being charged.

 

Other than that I see not a lot wrong.

[Peterbard]

Hi

The old agreement seems to have all the prescribed terms for a secured fixed sum any purpose loan.

The APR works out at %26.31

On an agreement pre 2005 the signature box can be anywhere within the document and the document may run over several pages this oversight was remedied in the 1482 amendments which fixed the box within the main body of the agreement together with all the other schedule 1 details like prescribed terms.

 

The interest on this loan is £3739

 

On this type of loan the interest rate is not a prescribed term, I know it doesn’t make sense but there you are (see section 9 schedule one 1983/1553).

The main item that is missing is the total charge for credit calculation which is a required tem for this agreement and would render it enforceable only by order of the court.

 

Although this is not a prescribed term it is quite important as due to the lack of indication of the interest rate for the main amount of credit it is a major indicator to the applicant of the true cost of the loan.

 

The new agreement is spot on as you would expect it conforms to the 1482 regs and as you can see includes the TCC and an interest rate which are required in the new regulations although neither is still a prescribed term for this type of agreement.

 

Sorry can’t be of more help

 

Best regards

Petr

[Peterbard]

Hi

I have just read your thread

 

 

Are they trying to issue this retrospectively if so that is a no no/

If the loan is to pay off an existing loan then they should have done the calculations to reduce the orriginal loan by the ammount paid and also any rebate due to PPI not used.

Then they should have issued a new loan with the new amount of credit.

I can't think why they would do this unless they are worried bout the enforceabiity of the orriginal like i say the only thing i can see is the lack of TCC.

Anyway i would not sign this under these circumstances. I will have another moire in depth look at the orriginal and get back to you

 

Regards

Petr

[hellhasnofury]

Hi

I have just read your thread

 

 

Are they trying to issue this retrospectively if so that is a no no/

If the loan is to pay off an existing loan then they should have done the calculations to reduce the orriginal loan by the ammount paid and also any rebate due to PPI not used.

Then they should have issued a new loan with the new amount of credit.

I can't think why they would do this unless they are worried bout the enforceabiity of the orriginal like i say the only thing i can see is the lack of TCC.

Anyway i would not sign this under these circumstances. I will have another moire in depth look at the orriginal and get back to you

 

Regards

Petr

Hello Peter,

 

I am so glad that you have looked at this thread. I did think it might be a bit suspicious, but it needed the expert for clarification.

[Peterbard]

Hi

Did they give you the seven day advance cooling off period as required by section 58 of the act and mentioned in the agreement.

YOu should have a copy dated at least seven days before the executed one.

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

hI

I think i am being a bit dense here I have just reread your first posting.

 

What we should be looking at is the background to this agreement i think. Am i right in assuming that the loan is in your name but the property that is being used as security is not registered to you.

Also you were sold PPI when you were not in full time work.

 

Oh dear

 

Is it your signature that is in the right hand box and is it your details that are on the top of the agreement.

 

Did you ever do an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on this account and do you know how much you paid upto date in total.

 

Did they refund any money in cash did you sign anny sort of disclaimer when you recieved it.

 

If you like you can email me on

peter.bardsley@btintenet.com

 

Meanwhile i would suggest that you didn't sign annything

 

Bes regrrds

 

Peter

[razorc]

hi again , thanks for looking into this for me peterbard and others , if its ok to email you , will do it tomorrow if thats ok with you

 

thanks for all replys in this

[razorc]

Hello Peter ,

 

The loan was took out in our 2 names my signiture is on the right of the loan , girlfrien is the main one on the loan as she owns the house , plus the PPi was only covered by girlfriend not me and at the time i was in temp work which we told them , so they took into account my wage also because girlfriends wage wasnt enough to cover getting it.

 

All started back in Nov 06 , were we told them they mis sold PPi to us , so we stopped any payments to them till it was all sorted , then they sent us a letter like a month later and said they had stopped the PPi and would have to recalucate the loan again , at that time i CCA them to get copy of the orginal agreement which they sent , then after a few months again they said we would have to sign a new agreement with them to get the payments down to £132.00 a month.

 

They sent us the new agreement in Jan 07 asking us to sign it , they never sent us a copy this was one for us to sign and return back to them , but we declined because we told them we wanted some sort of compensation , time went on , then we received another letter from them which stated if we didnt sign it the payments would have to stay at £181 as we had to sign the new agreement.

 

Sometime later another letter from them , with yet again a new agreement for us to sign and return , same again we had to sign it otherwise the payments will remain at £181 .

 

I phoned them and told them no we are not signing , as it stated on the agreement £5000 over 60 months , we have paid it for 3 years and only had 2 year to go , got a letter from them saying its not over 60 months just we have to sign it because they had to redo the loan .

 

We heard nothing for months from them till a letter came from another local branch saying we were in arrear of £2000 odd and why were we not paying , i phoned them up and told them head off is dealing with this and its been in dispute since nov 06 , guy was a bit shocked , so telephone head off and told them we wanted this dealt with and sorted once and for all , and we wanted some kind of compensation for the hassle we have had ,

 

so this is what branch manager offered , well i told him really this is want we wanted,

 

1 - PPi all of plus interest took off loan

2 - all charges since the account was opened plus interest took off loan

3 - £350 compenstaion

 

and they still need us to sign a new agreement to get the payments to £132

 

To date i think we have paid them £5200 odd back and till this date we are still waiting on the reply back from them

 

A total bunch of A**holes i think they are

 

hope that all makes some sense to you

[steven4064]

I have asked one of my colleagues who knows more about credit agreements to take a look.

Rory32 says this agreement is an application but contains all the prescribed terms. While it is not immediately enforceable a judge probably will enforce it. As it is a secured loan so will also show up on your deeds, they can enforce it that way.

[razorc]

thanks steven , just waiting on peterbard getting back to me also , he was having a look at it for me aswell

 

 

thanks for your time in helping

[Peterbard]

HI

Wheras both agreements are ok in the sence that they are enforceable albeing the lack of TCC on the old agreement would makeit enforceable only by order of the court if you wanted to purse that option.

I think the main question here is whether you ought to sign the new agreement.

I am alway verr wary of giving advice when it involves an active secured loan so firstly i wold make sure that the first agreement has been terminated.

Regardsing your new loan since the orriginal loan was for 5000(the rest of the TAP was in the TCC and does not count, and you say you have paid 5200 then wht they are chasing you for is the interest on the orriginal loan as the inital credit has been paid.

A point to note here is that if they are chasing you for that interest then the new loan will mean you are paying interest on the inital interest thus compounding the debt.

They are not giving you anything regarding the lower APR this is meerly a result of there being no items in the TCC's on the new loan.

I have more information for you if you bear with me .

 

Best regards

Peter

[patrickq1]

peter this dose not sound right ,has the full refund of the ppi been returned,if this loan has been running for three years ,i have looked but ( phoned them and told them no we are not signing , as it stated on the agreement £5000 over 60 months , we have paid it for 3 years and only had 2 year to go , got a letter from them saying its not over 60 months just we have to sign it because they had to redo the loan )also the repayment they have promised i do not see this in writing just a verbal response..is it possible they are trying to bring the loan back to five years but at a reduced rate ,when considering only 18 moths are or where left..smell fishy the old agreement is this unenforcable it looks like it but the new agreement like you say is correct.i think i would be inclined to ask to pay the reduced payment over the next 18 mths...imo

[patrickq1]

plus do u never sleep peter lol

patrickq1 same disease as me lol insomnia

[razorc]

hi there , yes your correct , we have 18months left to pay , but they said they need us to sign a new agreement to get the payments reduce to £132 instead of what we were paying £181 , the £132 is cause the PPi has been took off

 

what you think we should do on this

 

thnaks all

[Peterbard]

hi there , yes your correct , we have 18months left to pay , but they said they need us to sign a new agreement to get the payments reduce to £132 instead of what we were paying £181 , the £132 is cause the PPi has been took off

 

what you think we should do on this

 

thnaks all

 

Hi

 

NO definately not and i don't think they should be encouraging you to do so,this is what i am looking into at the moment.

 

It is definately questionable practice for them to suggest the action they have the question is is it illegal.

They are after all asking you to sign no a legal document knowing that the terms wihtin it are false.

 

Another thing is if as you say they have admitted that the ppi should not have been charged then it should not be part of the total credit calculation which would mean the one on you agreement is incorrect and of course this is a prescribed term which would make the agreement unenforceable.

 

If you take out the loan as they say you are taking on the same commitment that you did five years ago only without any credit.

 

You can be sure that if they think they had a valid agreement and secutrity they would be pursuing it.

 

The new loan is i notice unsecured which would suggest to me that the orriginal security was not properly processed.

It is always difficult when you do not have the full curcumstances and you must correct me if i make false assumptions.

 

I think the sensible thing to do is to request a settlement figure, or ammount owed on the account if it is closed

including the various rebates and refunds.

Then you can look at your options.

 

Best regards

Peter