HSBC **Court Action Issued**

[Curlyben]

Time to get a memory stick there Dave

[albertini]

I'd be curious to know what these debt buying companies require when they buy debt from original lenders?

 

If i were a debt buyer i'd want to make sure that the agreements i was buying were cast iron.

 

Yet time after time we see people on the forum being provided with application forms or stattue barred debts.

 

Whislt the DCA's have a case to answer this business of debt buying needs seriosuly looking at as it seems to be fueling the shady practices of many of the more popular DCA's on here.

 

This whole issue needs seriously looking at and regulating in my view.

[Curlyben]

Bear in mind where there is one CAG member there are 9 other people that are unaware of their rights.

Sad, but true.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Its quit funny as I had an agreement to pay £5 per month to Metropolitan. This was to end in I think in 2085.

 

The only reason they have sold the debt is because they are getting nervous.

 

I never stopped paying them untill today when the letter says do not pay any money to HSBC.

 

So guess what thats it no more cash to HSBC EVER!!!

 

HSBC have shot themselve in the foot big time:D

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Letter sent today

 

Cheers CB:D

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

Got a letter today about my complaint.

 

Basically they have obtained legal advice and woffled on and on why an application form is an agreement bla blal bla.

 

No mention that its unreadable and no original T&C.. Also they have sent me another copy of the agreement but smaller. I suspect that its scanned and been stored on pc. If thats the case they will not be able to get it readable.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

Just typed the below up hopefully will do the trick...

 

Any comments

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 30th October. I take note of all your comments raised in the letter but my request under section 78(1) on the Consumer Credit Act 1974 is still outstanding.

Firstly the agreement is unreadable. The copy is that poor it is impossible to make out any of the wording. Under section 2(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 it states the following:

2. -(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the colour of the paper.

 

 

Secondly section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 states what information shall be sent with the request. This is the agreement and any other document referred to it. As you have not supplied the original terms and conditions that were issued at the same time as the application form, again the request remains outstanding.

Section 78(6) is very clear and states the outcome if the creditor fails to comply with section 78(1) these are:

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement:

(b) If the default continues for one month he is commits an offence.

As you have not complied with my request by sending me a copy of an application form that is unreadable and no original terms and conditions LTSB have committed an offence reportable to Trading Standards, FOS and OFT.

Please can you send me a copy of the agreement that is readable and the original terms and conditions. If you fail to do this within 14 days I will have no choice than to report you to the above authorities.

I have enclosed extracts from the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 and Consumer Credit Act 1974 for your information.

Your Sincerely

[Goldlady]

Lloyds TSB sent me nothing at all and then tried to say that as the card was more than six years old they did not have to keep the agreement;) Fools. Needless to say I have not even replied to their further letters or their DCA.

 

Your agreement is a bit borderline I think, but the fact that it was not with LTSB to start with may be of use as well as the illegibility. Keep fighting - no doubt you will get another long letter in response to yours;)

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi

 

The Agreement has all the prescribed terms on it that I can make out. I dont think they have the original after them sending me a smaller copy today. Also the original T&C are missing so it worth a go.

 

Good point about the it used to be Accucard then changed to LTSB. Will look into that or if anybody else knows would be great.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

\I have just read the letter again and it states they have complied with my request as they have sent me the varied T&C. This is statesd in the copy docs 1983.

 

Surley the have to send originals. anybody got any info on this

 

CHeers

 

HAK

[sosumi]

HAK, TSB wrote to apologise that they couldn't find the agreements on either of our credit cards. It's a tale that's just unfolding...

[pelham9]

The APR is on but nothing else

 

The %APR is not required on a CCA agreement - it wasn't around in 1974!

%APR is in any case not what you need to check interest applied as it is an approximation and as such cannot be used to do the sums. The rate of interest applied is required and this could either be monthly or annually.

 

The yearly rates given look fishy to me - if I could read them. These people apply a monthly rate and work out the annual rate and %APR from this. I would think that the annual rates shown are to one decimal place which is unlikely to be the true rate applied. The %APR is always rounded to one decimal place - this is legitimate and why its only use is in advertising.

 

So if you want I will look into this for you.

 

I will need 3 things a) the monthly rate applied at the time of the application/agreement b) the fee to be applied for cash advances.c) the annual rates and %APRs -if you can read them!

 

You will have to ask Access for the monthly rate and I warn you this may not be easy as they are sensitive if they think somebody is checking the figures.

 

NB THE %APR IS NOT EQUAL TO THE ANNUAL RATE ACTUALLY APPLIED.

[diskmandave]

hang on - did LTSB take over Accucard, and send you a new LTSB card?

 

If so, where is the CCA between you and LTSB?

I'ld be more inclined to follow this route a little closer...

 

Best, Dave.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Dave

 

Any idea how to play it.

 

HAK

[diskmandave]

I'ld be inclined to write back thanking them for the Accucard application and pointing out that you were expecting the CCA for the LTSB card that they replaced it with.

 

Also, get in their complaints procedure so they can see you mean business.

Lloyds TSB - Complaints procedure

 

Regards, Dave.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Will do Dave

 

Cheers

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

After sending the below got a reply from Marlins asking why the account is in dispute. What planet are they on will reply tommorow with another letter.

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to Marlin Financial services, as it is in dispute with the Metropolitan Collection Services and has been since xxst July 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also a breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the Data Protection Act 1998

 

As Metropolitan Collection Services are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

As Marlin Financial services cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities on this account, I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Metropolitan Collection Services for resolution of these defaults and breaches.

If Marlin Financial services chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

You will also be aware that as holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. I would therefore be obliged if you would provide me with an explanation as to why you are attempting to collect on an alleged debt which was disputed with Metropolitan Collection Services. Since this is considered an unfair practice and contrary to the OFT guidelines, you should consider this letter as a formal complaint, and provide me with a copy of your complaint procedure.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

Yours faithfully

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Sending this off to Marlins tonight.

 

If Ive got the fine/sentence incorrect could somebody quote me

 

hak

 

I am writing regarding your letter dated XX November 2007.

You ask why the account is in dispute. This information was stated in the previous letter sent on the XXOctober 2007. To refresh your records I will explain why the account is in dispute.

I requested a copy of my credit agreement from Metropolitan Collection Services. They failed to send this to me and under section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 they have now committed a criminal offence.

You are now breaking the law by trying to collect a debt that is in default under section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is a very serious offence that is reportable to FOS, OFT and Trading Standards. If found guilty carries a fine of up to £6000 and a custodian prison sentence to the director of the company.

You will also be aware that as holders of a Consumer Credit Licence you are obliged to comply with the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines on Debt Collection. If found guilty OFT could cease your credit license.

I am now asking you to return the case to the original collector as the account is in default. If you fail to do so I will send all the correspondence to Trading Standards so they can start litigation.

Again please treat this letter as an official complaint and pass this on to your complaints department at the same address.

[robcag]

Sending this off to Marlins tonight.

 

If Ive got the fine/sentence incorrect could somebody quote me

 

hak

 

..... If found guilty carries a fine of up to £6000 and a custodian prison sentence to the director of the company.

 

Sorry if I appear to be nit-picking, but I think the word 'custodian' is wrong and 'custodial' seems to me to be more appropriate. I can't comment on the numbers etc. which you quote.

 

Just trying to be helpful

 

Rob

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Rob

 

You are right, my english is terrible.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Got a reply from the clowns above.

 

I am looking into your complaint

 

Signed

 

Group Company Solicitor....

 

WOW is this suposed to scare me:confused:

 

God I am going to have some fun with him if he does not pass the file back to Metropoltan.

 

I hope he know his Consumer Law:D

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Got my final response from Lloyds today.

 

A £50 credit to my account and another unreadble copy of my agreement.

And a unreadable copy of the original T&C have turned up.

 

What planet wre they on!!!! Just emailed a complanit to the FOS as I like to see how they are going to get out of this one.

 

HAK

[itsamomentintime]

this really is incompetence of the highest order.

 

imagine a company sending you a credit card that you have not applied for, nor have you agreed to any for the cards terms and conditions.

 

no need to imagine. take a bow, Lloyds TSB.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

FOS have had my complaint 4 months and today i have get a letter saying we are very busy and still trying to look into your complaint.

 

What hope have we got!!!

[Having_A_Knightmare]

HAHA

 

Got a reply from Marlins today:

Emclosed is your credit agreement, they account is now live and we will start collecting

 

Dream on Marlin you have sent me the same application form HSBC have sent me a few times.

Just sent them a another reminder about the CCA1974

 

HAK