HSBC GoldCard sold debt to Robinson Way

[Archangel9]

Ok, here's the form scanned in and remodified:

 

[Archangel9]

Ok, how does this sound?

 

Robinson, Way & Company Limited

London Scottish House,

Quays Reach,

Carolina Way,

Salford.

M50 2ZY

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or your clients.

 

On 23/01/08 I sent a request for a true copy of the credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 by special delivery which was signed for by you on 24/01/08. This was to be supplied to me within 12 working days of receipt. This, you failed to comply with putting your company in a default situation. You finally supplied what you believe to be a true copy of the credit agreement on 08/03/08 (dated 05/03/08) which was actually 33 days late.

 

 

In a letter dated 15/01/08 you wrote to me stating that you had purchased this account, in this case you have a deed of assignment from the original creditors? I would be grateful if you could send a copy of this document to us.

 

 

I will also be contacting Sainsburys myself in an attempt to resolve this matter. During this time, this account is considered in dispute, your company must not attempt any recovery activity as this will breach the OFT guidelines.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

Me

 

[pelham9]

That letter seems fine. The DOA will have the amount that they paid for the debt on it and will will not want you to know how much - it would surpise you how little thay paid! Thay will therefore refuse a copy as 'it contains commercially sensitive information'

 

So your next letter is a request for a copy of the DOA with the sensitive information blocked out. Keep them busy!

 

Bear in mind that at this stage they are within their rights not to give you this information and even if you go to court they can ask the judge to look at it without you seeing it.

[pelham9]

Thanks. I will put the figures into my computer and will post the results tomorrow.

 

I will be assuming that the repayments were due on the monthly anniversary of the loan and that you payed nothing until the 3rd anniversary. Is this correct?

 

1st anniversary No paymrnt required

 

2nd anniversary Payment requred 0.00

 

3rd annversary First of 84 regular payments required

[Archangel9]

Thanks. I will put the figures into my computer and will post the results tomorrow.

 

I will be assuming that the repayments were due on the monthly anniversary of the loan and that you payed nothing until the 3rd anniversary. Is this correct?

 

1st anniversary No paymrnt required

 

2nd anniversary Payment requred 0.00

 

3rd annversary First of 84 regular payments required

 

Erm, everything was paid up to date up until about 3 years ago when things went pear shaped. I had been paying Sainsburys via Blair, Oliver & Scott (not as much as the original payment plan) and this was before I found this site.

 

A.

[Archangel9]

I have this address on the final letter they sent me regarding my account "being considered for sale" by SB, anyone know if this is the correct one?

 

Sainsburys Bank

Account Services,

PO Box 66.

Rosyth

KY11 2WG

 

 

That letter was Sept 2007.

 

Thanks,

A.

[pelham9]

The %APR that they give in the agreement is 7.6%

 

The figures a given in the agreement calculate from an actual rate of 7.89999% which is 7.9%APR.

 

They have charged £295.34 more interest that they were entitled to at 7.6%APR.

 

I would suggest that you write to Sainsburys (not the DCA) and ask them for the exact calculation they have used. I think that you should suggest to them that the CCA is unenforceable unless they can show the clear mathematics of their figures.

 

If the DCA keeps at you say that the figurers in the CCA are in dispute with Sainsburys should not have sold them the debt. Suggest they return it to Sainsburys.

[Bigmac versus]

Another one i found is

 

Sainsbury’s Bank

Premier House

City Road

Cheshire

CH99 3AN

[Archangel9]

The %APR that they give in the agreement is 7.6%

 

The figures a given in the agreement calculate from an actual rate of 7.89999% which is 7.9%APR.

 

They have charged £295.34 more interest that they were entitled to at 7.6%APR.

 

I would suggest that you write to Sainsburys (not the DCA) and ask them for the exact calculation they have used. I think that you should suggest to them that the CCA is unenforceable unless they can show the clear mathematics of their figures.

 

If the DCA keeps at you say that the figurers in the CCA are in dispute with Sainsburys should not have sold them the debt. Suggest they return it to Sainsburys.

 

 

Hmmm, well, I have to send a letter to the DCA ASAP, so I'll add that in for good measure. I'm also going to SAR Sainsburys.

 

How did you come by that calculation? Also, how reliable is the info regarding the APR?

 

Thanks,

A.

[NORTHERNGUY]

When I did my S.A.R for Sainsbury's (still waiting) I originally sent to the data protection officer in Chester.

Hope this helps!

[pelham9]

OK here goes!

 

The only way that you can get APRs from the figures is by an iterative process. You keep repeating the calculation with slightly different (+/-) interest rate until the final result is 0 ie the loan is fully paid. The banks add interest monthly so you have to use monthly interest rates. The starting point is the %APR quoted. The %APR is an approximation to one decimal place so the monthly rate used will always be higher than the monthly rate derived from the %APR- this is the dishonest use of APR that all banks use. The %APR is NOT the actual annual rate charged. This would take for ever were it not for computers but a very simple program will produce the result in seconds.

I use Qbasic simply because I am used to it. Any computer programmer with a minimum of maths will comfirm the method for you.

I do not use downloaded programmes as so many of these are published by financial institutions and contain discrepemncies in method which conform to the various scams that they are using. The banks themselves use tables and programs which were set up many years ago and are calculated in an unfair way. So if Sainsburys were to say that their computer or tables give the figures in the CCA they will need to give you the exact method they are using.

My workings are based on my interpretation of what your CCA says. I am no fool and if Sainsburys say that they meant differently they will have to convince you, me and a judge that they are correct.

The program I have used is

 

i = 7.6 'i is interest rate at start of iteration = APR given

 

10 ' Iteration return line

 

a = 18805.5 ' Amount of loan

 

ii = (1+i/100)^(1/12) ' Gives monthly rate as fraction + 1

 

For n= 1 to 86 'Starts with two free months then 84 payments

 

If n>2 then a = a - 291.47 ' subtracts payment starting at 3rd month

 

a = a*ii ' adds monthly interest

 

next n 'loop return

 

Print a 'This gives +/- at end at 7.6% ,7.601% etc

 

if a

 

'therefore add 0.001 to rate and recalculate

 

Print i 'This is the AAR charged as final amount is pennies underpaid

 

To get %APR round AAR to one deimal place (.05 rounds up)

[Archangel9]

Also, are you taking in account the charge added on for the loan, so the loan ends up being a bit huge.

 

Also, there are not 2 free months payments, but rather the payments start 2 months after the date on the agreement.

 

A.

[pelham9]

a) You are right that any compulsory exit fee would boost the APR considerably. However I presume that the charge you mention is one that was made when the loan came to an end prematurely. Your Ts & Cs should contain somewhere their power to levy a fee and the amount of it should an action of yours end the loan. If an action of yours ended the loan I do not think the fee could be considered as compulsory.

 

It might well be worthwhile asking Sainsburys on what groumds they levied the charge and how they calculated it. If you think it unreasonable complain and the after deadlock go to the FOS.

 

b)These 'free' months were non payment months. They were of course charging you interest during the first two months. The program takes all this into account.

[Archangel9]

Hi,

 

I've created a new thread as it pertains to 2 separate threads

 

I sent RWC a letter relating to the Sainsburys account and the fact that they keep ringing me even though I've told them not to. I got a reply stating they would respond no later than 4 weeks. I got this yesterday:

 

 

The interesting part is the fact that they say that I haven't complained about the HSBC account, which in fact I did here. Also, they've sent documentation for this account which they didn't send originally, they originally sent a competitor balance transfer request form which they've sent again but this time with other forms from HSBC. I did send a letter to them stating that this account was unenforceable but they're still saying otherwise. What should I do about this?

 

Thanks,

A.

[mrmarmite]

do you have proof of your complaint, ie copy of letter and proof of delivery?

if so send them copy and tell then to stop talking out thier rear end. you MUST be persistant and on to them ALL the time otherwise they will keep banging onto you.

[Archangel9]

do you have proof of your complaint, ie copy of letter and proof of delivery?

if so send them copy and tell then to stop talking out thier rear end. you MUST be persistant and on to them ALL the time otherwise they will keep banging onto you.

 

I HAbsolutely doo! :grin:

 

Thanks,

A.

[Archangel9]

Oh and I forgot to mention that RWC are actually playing me at my game and sent this letter recorded delivery

[mrmarmite]

make sure you reply by recorded then

 

click ya scales for keeping docs and proof of delivery, well done

[Archangel9]

Do you think I should tell them that I SAR'd Sainsburys and they've yet to get back to me? I sent it on 27/03/08 and they signed for it 31/03/08.

 

Thanks,

A.

[mrmarmite]

depends if you wanna waste a stamp or not, either way they WILL ignore it, i sent shed loads of letters to them and only ever got response to 1. "sorry debt is old we don't have a CCA"

 

i would waste little time as poss on this bunch to be honest

[Archangel9]

Who do you mean? Sainsburys or RWC? If Sainsburys don't respond at all, does this have any legal implications?

 

Thanks,

A.

[Archangel9]

I SAR'd Sainsburys on the 27/03/07 and they've still not responded, after I got this back from them, I've not got another letter from them stating they will be sending a collection agent round before court action, blah blah blah.

 

From a legal standpoint, do Sainsbury's have to respond? Does this make the account unenforceable? I've not contacted Sainsburys about the calculations yet.

 

Thanks,

A.

[Archangel9]

Further letters from them asking for payment following this one. They did send what looked like a proper CCA in the complaint response for this HSBC account, AFAIK this means nothing as they didn't provide it within the required time limit the first time around and would require going to court to enforce it, am I right?

 

Thanks,

A.

[Archangel9]

I have updated the other 2 threads of mine HSBC/RWC and Sainsburys/RWC

 

Please can someone advise?

 

Thanks,

A.

[Archangel9]

Hi,

 

 

Quote

under the Law of Property Act 1925 it has to be delivered by personal service or recorded delivery otherwise it isn't effective and so westcot don't actually own the debt, even though they think that they do.

 

Does this mean that the DCA has to send the NOA to (the alleged) debtor via recorded delivery for it be enforceable?

Or does this mean that the original lender has to send it via recorded delivery to the assignee?

 

Also, if this is correct, how does this work when/if a DCA provides what maybe a possible CCA, whether they have or have not got the correct/official CCA's?

 

Thanks,

A.