Leeds Mercantile Hearing, 29 August 2007

[caro]

Your friend should most definitely attend court tomorrow or risk having the case thrown out and having to pay costs to the bank. He should check what his court order says and complete a CMI sheet, which he should take to court and apologise for not getting it in earlier. I think he'll get away with it.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mercantile-court-cases-stays/96212-case-management-info-sheet.html

[jamie9dh]

HI, thanks for your quick response, my firend isn.t very confident at public speakig or anything like that, what will he have to do at the court? He will be very nervous, should he ring the court and tell them he will be attending, the letter from barclays says that the case will be held...or thats the impression it gives leading to his thought that the case would not be tomorrow! Regards

[lozza2306]

hi everyone

 

just a quickie, which 'mini' bundle have you used cos there seems to be a few

 

thanks for ur help and will see you all tomoz

 

lozza2306

[caro]

He should phone the court, but the information we have to date implies the hearing will be held. Barclays may want the case to be stayed, but that is for the court to decide and not the bank. Leeds Mercantile have historically been very helpful to claimants and not stood for nonsense from the banks.

 

He should probably take with him an application for removal of a stay, just in case there is a problem. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html

 

It's not a full hearing I believe, but a directions hearing, which means the idea is to decide how to proceed with these cases, not about the issues involved.

 

Take a look at the threads in this forum showing what's happened at previous similar hearings in Leeds.

[scoobz]

Hi Peeps

 

I've just spoken to Leeds Merc to see if A&L have filed their CMI sheet as I've not had a copy and I was told nothing has been filed. Wragge & Co wrote to court on 21/08/07 stating 'THEY WILL NOT BE ATTENDING ON 29TH'. I've just phoned Wragge & Co and they have confirmed they are not sending anyone as its only a directions hearing!!?? I also queried why no CMI sheet sent to court or me and she stated "we have written to court to explain everything"? I have compiled a letter for the judge asking that their defence is Struck Out or Dismissed as I feel they are abusing the court system...

 

Does anyone know if they HAVE TO attend?

 

Very annoyed Scoobz

[jamie9dh]

Hi,

PLEASE HELP!, my friend is hinting about not going, he spoke to the court and explained that he had no notification about the CMI, it turns out when the courts were transferred they got the wrong postcode, the court person said he should just bring a CMI with him tomorrow and that would be ok. He has also spoken to the barclays lit department who said that they will not settle as they expect to win the OFt test case!, and that they have organised for a barrister to be at leeds tomorrow, who is going to apply for a stay. Does anyone have any info on what he will have to do, he is worried about having to stand next to a barrister and get completely torn apart by loads of legal mumbo jumbo! He has the CMI and a copy of the particulars, all documents sent and recieved so far and 3 copies of charges schedules. He is case number 130 odd. Any details on procedure or what he will have to do/say or not say would be greatly appreciated, PLEASE HELP!! regards

[j.barton1]

Hi,

PLEASE HELP!, my friend is hinting about not going, he spoke to the court and explained that he had no notification about the CMI, it turns out when the courts were transferred they got the wrong postcode, the court person said he should just bring a CMI with him tomorrow and that would be ok. He has also spoken to the barclays lit department who said that they will not settle as they expect to win the OFt test case!, and that they have organised for a barrister to be at leeds tomorrow, who is going to apply for a stay. Does anyone have any info on what he will have to do, he is worried about having to stand next to a barrister and get completely torn apart by loads of legal mumbo jumbo! He has the CMI and a copy of the particulars, all documents sent and recieved so far and 3 copies of charges schedules. He is case number 130 odd. Any details on procedure or what he will have to do/say or not say would be greatly appreciated, PLEASE HELP!! regards

 

PLEASE PLEASE make sure your friend goes, the case could be struck out and they could award the bank costs....could be in the £1000's.

Assure them the court is really friendly towards people acting on their own behalf's, if the solicitors talk mumbojumbo..the judge will explain it. He wont have to stand on his own and explain himself...its not like you see on the telly!!

Jenny x

[j.barton1]

Hi Peeps

 

I've just spoken to Leeds Merc to see if A&L have filed their CMI sheet as I've not had a copy and I was told nothing has been filed. Wragge & Co wrote to court on 21/08/07 stating 'THEY WILL NOT BE ATTENDING ON 29TH'. I've just phoned Wragge & Co and they have confirmed they are not sending anyone as its only a directions hearing!!?? I also queried why no CMI sheet sent to court or me and she stated "we have written to court to explain everything"? I have compiled a letter for the judge asking that their defence is Struck Out or Dismissed as I feel they are abusing the court system...

 

Does anyone know if they HAVE TO attend?

 

Very annoyed Scoobz

 

They didnt for me, at least this time they have let the judge know...they didnt when i went. Its better for you hun, use your letter and hopefully things will be in your favour...they cantapply for a stay if they're not there...lol

xx

[j.barton1]

hi everyone

 

just a quickie, which 'mini' bundle have you used cos there seems to be a few

 

thanks for ur help and will see you all tomoz

 

lozza2306

Look on the first page of this thread, it has everything you need to take with you.

 

Jenny x

[jamie9dh]

Hi, cheers jenny for your support, all advice greatly appreicated. Will he have to say much, anything, should he try and refuse the stay or not, use the time to get a bit more prepared??? Can i go with him?

Thanks

[j.barton1]

Hi, cheers jenny for your support, all advice greatly appreicated. Will he have to say much, anything, should he try and refuse the stay or not, use the time to get a bit more prepared??? Can i go with him?

Thanks

He probably wont have to say anything apart from confirming he is there, ideally he should try and and argue his case...but he wont HAVE to.

They do allow for "spectators" if you want to sit with him, ask, they might let you, if not there is a seating area very close to where he'll be sat.

[Entitled]

In the post this morning was a letter from the Court. They enclosed a copy of Abbey's request for Stay and advised that "All Parties must attend" tomorrow (29th Aug) as Judge Kaye will consider the application at that time. So that answered my earlier question. I like the sound of Judge Kaye .

 

Several people recommended the train instead of the car, and that's what I shall do. Thanks for the overview of the timing too.

 

Very important to attend (even if the Alliance and Leicester think they can get away with it).

 

I notice that once again, the Abbey did not manage to comply with court instructions. They got their CMI sheet back to the court on Friday, which is certainly not "at least seven days before the hearing".

 

 

 

I've looked over their application for stay, and it sounds quie straightforward and, dare I say it, convincing. In contrast I am beginning to feel that the Request to Remove Stay that we are using is... a bit over the top! It seems to be going into a little too much depth on relatively obscure points and might bore the Judge to read it. Obviously, I am going to use it, as I certainly couldn't do anything better... but I was wondering if this has proved itself yet. Have there been successful "Stay Avoided" cases using this wording?

[j.barton1]

Hi All, The press were out in force last time...here's a bit of the info from the press for the last hearing...it might give you a bit of insight on the 2 merc judges that are there, Kaye & Grenfell...who are both lovely btw.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-media/101910-bbc-news-re-recent.html

[j.barton1]

Good luck to all of you tomorrow. report back as soon as you can and let us all know how you've got on.

 

XX

[jansus]

Hi Peeps

 

I've just spoken to Leeds Merc to see if A&L have filed their CMI sheet as I've not had a copy and I was told nothing has been filed. Wragge & Co wrote to court on 21/08/07 stating 'THEY WILL NOT BE ATTENDING ON 29TH'. I've just phoned Wragge & Co and they have confirmed they are not sending anyone as its only a directions hearing!!?? I also queried why no CMI sheet sent to court or me and she stated "we have written to court to explain everything"? I have compiled a letter for the judge asking that their defence is Struck Out or Dismissed as I feel they are abusing the court system...

 

Does anyone know if they HAVE TO attend?

 

Very annoyed Scoobz

 

 

Hi Scoobz

 

Looks like A&L are playing usual game - stretching evrything to the last minute - so not attempting to do anything as it is just a directions hearing. No change there then - hope it all goes ok for you - at least you are in a friendly court.

Certainly seems like abuse of the system to me. Hope the judge thinks so too

 

 

Wil be thinking of you all.

 

 

jan

[scoobz]

Thanks for your support Jen and Jansus it's nice to know we've got good people behind us!

 

I'm really annoyed about the attitude of A&L but not alot I can do about it, just hope Judge gets annoyed too and takes it out on them!!

 

I'll report back soon as I'm home and who knows you might even see us all on the local news!!

 

Scoobz

[j.barton1]

Thanks Scoobz & good luck xx

[j.barton1]

Are you home yet Scoobz !!! How'd you get on?

[Entitled]

Oh the irony... looking back at the optimism of the first post in this thread.

 

Another long day at the Mercantile Court. The Judge, whose name I didn't catch (but he made a referrence to Judge Kaye so it wasn't him), took great pains to listen to the applications for a Stay (explained on behalf of all the Legal Reps by a chap whose name is probably spelled Toriadou) then to any objections to a Stay. It all took rather longer than he'd expected. One Legal type said to another "I thought we'd have been finished in 10 minutes".

 

He broke for lunch at 1pm and reconvened at 2pm. This also allowed the Representative for HSBC to ask for instructions about what the Banks would do with regard to "seeking enforcement" against any debts, whilst they were subject to the Stay. That was over in 10 mins.

 

 

Judge ruled... Stays applied on all cases where Stays had been applied for (which Leeds demanded had to be on individual applications from each Bank for each customer).

 

Stays to be until 14 days after the ruling given in the OFT case in London (commencing Jan 14th 2008)

[srfrench]

Hi Entitled......... where the bugger were you?

 

Still.... in addition to what you've reported, it was Judge Grenfall, and I just want to add a little? (!)

 

 

Well there was @ 120 of us peeps in the Merc Courts today in Leeds and whilst the Judge agreed the arguments made and made a special reference to mine and a few others, he honestly could not give anything other than an individual stay on all claimants - not a blanket!!! that's important.

 

His argument as I would have expected was sound and just and he gave a cut-off (without exception) that in Feb 2008 it will be lifted regardless of the decision made by Justice David Steele (Judge in the OFT Test Case).

 

That is significant! :grin:

 

Costs for the day is given to the parties. In my case it amounts to an extra £83.

 

My 2 Credit Card Claims were a joke (with diff providers) and they have 6 weeks from today to settle/provide a defence, but the JUdge does not want to see a another Case Management Hearing dealing with these. A Stay was applied for in the case of both but were quickly dropped!

 

All in all an exhausting, interesting day and one that will keep me in cigars through winter!

 

Roll on Feb 2008!! :grin: hink of the interest that is continuing to mount on a daily basis.

 

Oh...... and the Barrister and Solicitors were tornoff a strip a little by the Judge and I was informed by one of the Claimants that when I was presenting my case to have the Stay removed, she blanched! (She was also dealing with me!)

I approached her later as she indicated settlement, but realised I was going the full hog and claiming costs to. She tried to intimidate me a little with the fact that no way would I get costs, to which I replied, "of course I will...... have you actually read my POC as you will see that even as you have demonstrated at sneakily trying to put monies into my account, which the Judge frowned upon and ripped into her, it also asks for a legal declaration that the level of levied charges imposed was unlawful and unenforceable. In other words, settle the monetary side and the claim still carries on darling!" I also told her to smile a little, she didn't which is a shame, because she was quite attractive........ methinks it's either PMT or she needs a holiday!

 

So that's it in a nutshell peeps, I will post the full orders and resoning as and when I am a party to it from the Court.

 

No worries..........

[scoobz]

Hi Jen and peeps....

 

Well that was an interesting day... 120 claimants attended. As Entitled stated earlier most of the cases have been stayed (for those where stays had been applied for) so people not very happy as you can imagine.

 

It was Judge Behrens who heard our cases. No other A&L claimants there....

 

It got near the end and most people had gone as their cases had been stayed so I thought I'd better ask what the position was with my case as no A&L representation attended and no mention of a stay. The Judge checked my file and confirmed that Wragge & co had written saying not attending as my case would be transferred back to small claims track... "Oh no it won't" said the Judge, "it will be Fast Track as its £5000". He asked me what I wanted him to do so I asked if he would give directions for a hearing and he obliged...

 

I've got 14 days to disclose my documents with copies of all paperwork, then a further 14 days to supply witness statements. I have to then contact the Listings Officer at Leeds Mercantile to advise him of any dates that I can not attend. The judge will ask that my case is heard on the next available 2 hour slot after 10th October 2007.

 

Yipeee I'm quite chuffed as thought it would be stayed! Looks like I'm going to be busy with my court bundle etc... poor printer!

 

I had a chat with Lozza2306 as her case stayed but think she may appeal... I'm sure she'll be on line to confirm later..

 

srfrench was brilliant, he gave the reps from the banks some real grief and I think he got what he wanted...

 

Thanks to all of you who sent me their details regarding their recent wins against A&L I will definitely be using them in my next lot of evidence as didn't really need them today...

 

Bring it on for round 2...

 

Scoobz

[srfrench]

Oh bollox........ I knew it didn't sound right lol

 

Yes you're right and I have faced him before mid last year on a totally seperate issue altogether

 

Apologies and thanks ScoobZ for correcting me.

[srfrench]

And Good Luck ScoobZ. I will be def thinking of you, and will try find your thread to assist in necessary. (Were you the young lady in the Jury section of the Court front row?)

[j.barton1]

Hiya scoobz, thats made me feel a little better re A&L...phew i was worried then. Well done, did you give him the letter?

J xx

[srfrench]

Oooooo nearly forgot the other condition imposed by Judge Behrens on the stay.

 

The Banks are not allowed to charge further charges and interest on the amounts in dispute.

 

They can however apply charges to further transgretions.

 

If they apply so much a s a penny on the disputed amounts the stay is automatically lifted for that claim.

 

I may have this slightly wrong or inaccurate, but the Barrister looked visibly bummed when the Judge told him this and he was up and down like a bride's nighty trying to clarify (hence me being unsure). If the Banks try to appeal against it ALL stays will be lifted!!!!! PMSL!