United Utilities/Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd.

[FU-UU]

Has anybody had any dealings with Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd. based in Stockport?

 

I ask because i recieved a letter from them this morning stating that i was in breach of a ccj and if i don't pay £481.44 within seven days the bailiffs are gonna come and take all my possessions. Now i do admit that i owe United Utilities the money but i've not recieved a bill or any other correspondence from UU since June last year.

 

Can UU have taken out a ccj without my knowledge or is this company trying to scare me? I've not been served with any papers from a court and the first i heard of a ccj was this morning. I did try to phone UU about this today but on three separate occasions, there computers were down.

 

In big bold red letters at the top of what i recieved this morning it clearly states Pre Court Division. If it's Pre Court and if i have been ccj'd, why are they contacting me?

 

tia

[Rob S]

If anyone had taken you to court you should have received notification from the county court and given a chance to file a defence. It looks like Moorcroft are using scare tactics.

 

If the bailiffs turn up on your door to try and collect a debt then you are under no obligation to let them in. Don't let them in under any circumstances!! Communicate with them through a open window. If you let them in voluntarily then it means they can start making a list of your possessions and make a walking possession order which will allow them to come back at any time and force entry if necessary.

 

In the meantime, write to Moorcroft and start off your letter by stating that you do not acknowledge any debt with them and then ask for a full breakdown of what they are trying to claim from you. I would also ask them to clarify if they have obtained a CCJ against you, but from the heading of the letter I would suspect not.

 

Keep trying with UU as well to try and clarify what has happened.

[FU-UU]

Cheers for that Rob.

 

Ok. Finally got through to UU on a day when the computers are working and no they haven't taken me to court. Phone Moorcroft and they told me to disregard the letter.

 

But i don't want to do that. Does anybody now of an official body that i can report Moorcroft to. I've been literally bricking it for two days now expecting bailiffs and i want to get these morons to apologise or even compensate me for the worry.

[emmaf01]

If you look in the debt section, this behaviour/letter form Moorcroft, could be classed as harassment - there are letters ordering this harassment to stop.

 

Also, as Moorcroft seem to have misrepresented the situation, Trading Standards might be an option.

 

Don't do them the favour of throwing this letter in the bin. I have had dealings with these people, and they will try anything.

 

Perhaps CCA and SAR might be the way to go- I wouldn't really trust United Utilities either.

 

I hope this helps- call if you need anything- Sorry if this is all a bit disjointed, my 3 yo is having a tantrum day!

[FU-UU]

Cheers for that Emma, some good points taken in.

 

I don't want to involve Trading Standards because in the past i have found them to be absolutely useless but i will keep that avenue open.

 

Thank you.

[emmaf01]

As with all of these situations, I advise trying as many routes as possible- all at the same time, to keep them wrong footed!

[FU-UU]

I'm thinking of sending this. Does it look ok?

 

 

1) United Utilities have not been in contact with me about any monies owed since 12 June 2006 (SIC).

 

2) You were informed that I was under a County Court judgment. I am not and I do not appreciate your version of events that imply that I am. Neither do I appreciate your empty threats of bailiffs being involved. You would be wise to read the OFT report updated in 2006.

 

3) False representation of authority and/or legal position

 

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position.

 

2.3d. falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not, for example, that civil action has been taken or that a court judgment has

already been obtained.

 

4) I will not be paying your company a single penny. I am prepared to pay United Utilities any monies owed but not via your company. I have already contacted United Utilities but am awaiting the outcome of my concerns.

 

5) If you persist in blatantly lying and demanding monies under a false pretense then I can see no further action but to consult a solicitor. If I need to take such drastic action then I will be also claiming for the stress this has put my family through and any other costs that are recoverable by law. I shall also make a complaint and ask that the OFT investigate my case and also point them to other cases that have been highlighted on the Consumer Action Group.

[emmaf01]

Remember the lady last week who won damages against the Halifax for harassment!

[FU-UU]

Hi again

 

It's been a busy few weeks and as you now know UUW have told me that no court action has been taken, they just sold the debt to Moorcroft.

 

Got a phone call today off UUW very apologetic but they say Moorcroft deny sending me the letter (lol i've still got it) and they can no longer help as the debt is no longer theres.

 

UUW have asked me to send the letter i received from Moorcroft on the 25th of last month and a very nice man from the oft has informed me that Moorcroft are already under investigation by them and that they would love a copy of the letter they sent.

 

Looks like these sharks days are numbered

[spurious]

Does the letter actually say that you're in breech of a CCJ? If it does, I'd imagine you can throw the book at them, because that's flagrantly illegal.

[FU-UU]

Hi spurious.

 

The exact sentence of the letter sent reads as such ..

 

We are informed that you have failed to make the necessary payments under a County Court Judgment. If you wish to avoid further action it is essential that you settle this debt without delay.

 

They then go on to indicate that i could be in all kinds of poo if i don't make a payment within 7 days.

 

And something i've only just took notice of on the letter is this last line ..

 

All payments must be made payable to "Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd" and forwarded with this letter to the above address.

 

I find the last sentence very strange as they supplied a reference number at the top of the page. Why on Earth would they want the letter sending back unless they know that it's incriminating?

[emmaf01]

A friend of mine has just come into contact with Moorcroft out of the blue, on the phone (no previous contact)- fortunately he reads this site, so immediately sent off a letter requesting the CCA.

 

He sent it recorded delivery, and they sent back to him a payment book for his "agreed payments" of £100 per month.

 

Good to see they're under investigation by the OFT.

[FU-UU]

Hi again Emma.

 

I got sent a payment book by the swines as well. In fact i think it went in the recycle bin last week

 

They have no chance of receiving a penny from me until they can explain there actions and as to why they are trying to incriminate UUW. I'm pretty sure that at the end of this i will no longer owe them anything

 

I'll keep you all informed in case it can help anybody else.

[kasdizz]

Moorcroft have really cocked this one up. I wonder if this is deliberate, or an individual cock up letter run. Probably the later, but even so... I suspect that the strategy people there have no idea of litigation law.

 

Good call with the OFT guidelines. Oh and what was the paragraph about bailiffs. Did it say that they would request a Warrant of Execution within 7 days, or simply that County Court bailiffs would visit within 7 days?

 

This is why DCA's need better regulation, and accountability.

 

I take it that you no longer have an account with UUW, and have moved outside the area. If you have got one then UUW should recall the arrears that they passed to Moorcroft.

[FU-UU]

I've tried doing a search and can't find the post that claimed that the directors of Moorcroft and CSA (consumer services association) are related.

 

Is this true?

[buzby]

Would it matter? I don't see any potential for conflict.

[FU-UU]

Sorry for the late reply.

 

Yes it does matter. I have recently written to the csa informing them that moorcroft have defaulted on there code of practice namely section 3 a & b, section 4 a, e, j and r.

 

So if the csa find no problem and take no further action then i would like to notify the oft and ts informing them of a clash of interest.

 

Hope that clears things up.

[FU-UU]

When i moved into this property i informed the utility companies involved that i was the new tennant and henceforth bills have been sent under my name and at no time have i been required or asked to sign anything.

 

What i would like to know is, if a utility company need to issue a contract or indeed need permission to pass personal information to third parties with no contract signed would that give them such permission.

 

I've looked over the DPA but nowhere did i see that special dispensation was given to utility companys or have i overlooked something?

 

I'm after some serious help here because United Utilities have passed on my details to at least two other agencies with no court order involved.

 

I thank you in advance for your help.

[buzby]

They can get round this easily by stating in their T&C's what they do with customer data. By becoming their customer and using their services is one thing, however when you pay for them you are tacitly agreeing to their T&C's even though no written contract exists.

[FU-UU]

It's been a while i know. I've been busy chasing tails on this one

 

Does this look ok to you lot

 

 

I thank you for the letter received ** ********* 2007.

 

You claim my account was accepted as post litigation in error but yet all the letters I have received were sent from the Pre-Court Division and, in the letter I received from your company on the **/**/07 gave notice of Intended Litigation.

 

Your explanations of matters do not tally with the facts unless you are admitting that such letters sent are of a matter of course or mass mailed in which case could be seen as common practice. Indeed, a quick view of the Consumer Action Groups online forums would suggest such.

 

As for proposals in relation to the account, ******** ******* of United Utilities recently wrote and informed me that one of your operatives stated that I would be willing to pay by direct deductions from my benefits and that the DWP will be in contact within the next 21 days. This is news to me as I still have a payment booklet that was sent by your company and at no point in any of my correspondence did I agree to pay via benefit deductions. I enclose said letter for your reference.

 

My opinion Mrs **** is that if I had not contacted the CSA in regards to this matter then your company would have continued to ignore my registered mail and continued to harass me by post with letters that actually breach the law or continued to phone at times that could be considered as harassment.

 

As you well know the FOS will only view cases on the understanding that a final reply has been received by the complainant to which you have not yet done. No such restrictions are in place for Trading Standards and the OFT and as such, I am currently preparing a case for then both.

 

I have forwarded your response along with this letter to the CSA and United Utilities for there own reference.

[jimo2002]

Hey there

 

I work for Powergen. In regards to data protection and the supply of elec/gas - this is a bit of a shaddy area with alot of customers.

 

The fact is - when you move into a property it WILL be supplied by an elec or gas supplier weather it be bgas, pgen, npower etc... and by USING the elec / gas u have entered into a contract with them to supply your gas / elec regardless weather you pay them or not and regardless if you have a paper contract u have signed or not. It is then up to u to find your elec / gas supplier of choice and switch to them. - bare in mind u will only beable to do this if your account with the current supplier is up to date otherwise they will object to you leaving them as a supplier - they can do it, it is part of ur T+Cs.

 

In regards to passing your details onto other 3rd parties - they can only do this if they asked you if they could do this - something they should have done when you phoned them to tell them you are moving into the property. BUT in regards to debt collection - agin as part of your T+Cs they CAN pass your details to 3rd party collection agencies.

 

Hope this helps

 

James

[buzby]

'Shady' area might be the wrong description however a customer cannot be bound by Terms & Conditions if he has not agreed to therm - but then the supplier has the ability to remove the supply unless an agreement is reached. Either way, the cost of any consumption on the premises must me paid for, irrespective of the state of the contract, as otherwise this would be theft.

[jimo2002]

Unfortunatly this is not true. When a customer calls up to register that they are the new occupier of the property they are automatically sent the T+Cs of supply. Nothing is required to be signed to be sent back to the supplier. The sheer fact the new customer has started to use the supply is confirmation that they agree to the T+Cs. If you dont agree to the T+Cs DONT USE THE SUPPLY as the supplier will be see that you dont want elec and gas with them and will take the supply away until u arrange a new supplier to reconnect it.

 

I can see that this can be seen as a "bully" that the customer MUST using them as a supplier - but all the suppliers do this. I know that PGen are now disconnecting properties that are empty to prompt new customers to arrange re-con with new suppliers.

 

This is the same for all suppliers as i have worked for NPow and PGen now and both do the same.

[buzby]

Unfortunatly this is not true. .

 

Perhaps from your standpoint, however what you are effectively saying is that a consumer has deemed to accept full terms and conditions of a vendors supply without being given any opportunity to read, agree or formally signify agreement. As much as a supplier may find this so called 'automatic acceptance' appealing, it has no basis in fact as far as I can ascertain, whether they are a public utility, national enterprise or small business.

 

Indeed, in a property I once had I actively attempted to discover who the correct utility companies responsible for the property were and failed miserably.* Despite using the recognised methods of trying to discover meter point codes and the like it took almost 14 months to resolve. During this period I was under no contract and received no bills. When I did eventually discover who was responsible I provided a start and closing reading pending transfer to my usual supplier, only to have the original company send me a contract for the previous supply - this I refused to sign as I was not remaining with them nor committing myself to any further work.

 

*Previous owner was an OAP who died in hospital, with the executor disposing of the property.

[jimo2002]

Get the supllier to contact transco (if gas) either through there xoserve website or to telephone them if they dont have access or get the supplier to check ecoes or call the local distribution company if they dont have access to check who the supplier is for the electrc.

 

Both these websites contain all the information for nearly EVERY meter and the meter point it is attached too for every property and who exactly the supplier is for that meter point / meter number. Gas can a bit more trickier for newer properties as they are sometimes not managed by transco but an independant company (an IGT site)- but transco will still know who the company will be and how to contact them.