Abbey claim £2000 costs in a.q. what a cheek

[mariejader]

3. I should write to Abbey with rejection letter

4. I should write to Abbey accepting as part payment for claim and raise awareness of where proceedings are now.

5. I should not write to Abbey

 

You should write to them I think you will find if you read their letter it states it's a full and final settlement, by not replying you are accepting their terms.

 

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejecting-offers.html

[Frankey]

Thanks - the letter does not say it is full and final settlement literally - it says that the charges are correct and this is a GOGW. Do I reject or accept as part payment letting them know I am pursuing rest of claim- this is the bit I'm stuck with Fran

[Frankey]

1,2 and 4, be aware of the abbeys tactics in relation to GOGW payments.

LETTER 5

*************************

 

 

 

 

 

YOUR Street

Town

City

Postcode

 

 

 

 

Date

 

BANK NAME

Address

Address

Postcode

Re: Account number XXXXXXXX

 

Response to settlement offer.

 

Dear [named sender or Sirs]

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/xx. I respectfully decline your offer of Full and Final settlement and have included the cheque you supplied in respect of that offer.

 

You may not have been aware that I commenced legal action against you for the full amount plus interest and costs on XX/XX/XX and I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

 

(If the bank have credited your account, please use this note...)

I wish to stress that I do not accept your offer as Full and Final settlement and the money transfered to my account should not be viewed as my acceptance. I hereby authorise you to remove this sum accordingly. Alternatively, should you wish to settle my claim in full, then please forward the balance of the claim (£xxxx) without further conditions and I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

 

 

Hi - does this cover accepting partial payment - confused about whether I add yes I will accept as partial payment or use this template which is not explicit in accepting partial payment but basically says I will only accept full claim. Thinking I will send this - it means in theory I can still keep money provided it is partial payment - any comments would be helpful thanks so much Fran

[mariejader]

Do I reject or accept as part payment letting them know I am pursuing rest of claim

 

With my case they have not yet put the money in my account, I would suggest that you send letter 5 (unless they have used a solicitor) and change it to suit your needs, it gives them the option to remove it which I doubt they will.

 

The important thing is to send the letter and remember when you next get a offer from Abbey it will be less the amount you have already been paid so do be careful, I think this has caught a few people out in the past.

[Frankey]

thanks for you quick reply - getting the logic now - feel confident letter 5 is correct now for my situation! Fran

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Fran to explain how they can do what mariejader is saying above i will give you an example.

 

Say Mr A is claiming for £2000 and he receives a GOGW for £800, seems clear accept as partial payment and continue with claim for the rest, then 2 weeks before court they offer full and final offer of £1200 so Mr A thinks great thats my claim settled in full, accepts offer and drops case, then some time later receives a cheque for £400, thinking this is wrong only to find out the full and final offer you signed (£1200) included the earlier £800 therefore Mr A has accepted £1200 of a £2000 claim and dropped his case.

[mariejader]

fantastic explanation Bigmac

[Frankey]

Yes - I get it now - have done letter 5 and rung court to report so feeling on top again thanks for all your help. Fran

[Bigmac versus]

Your welcome just remember the amounts.

Thx mariejader.

[Will Scarlet]

I'd be interested to read the logic behind suggesting that Abbey (or any other Bank) be authorised to remove any funds paid in settlement when part-accepting an offer. Whilst I appreciate that one must appear to be "reasonable" in all negotiations why give Abbey the chance to withdraw funds that have been paid in an attempt to settle a totally reasonable complaint. On the basis that they are informed that a payment is accepted in part, and on the understanding the balance will be pursued, is that not "reasonable" enough?

[Frankey]

Hi - the rejection letter does allow me to accept the part-payment provided it is a part-payment - this is why it gives the bank the option to have it back if in fact it is the only bit they are going to return. Basically it makes it explicit particularly in view of later stages that I want the full amount claimed and as long as they understand this then they have the option to have their money back or simply add what they owe. Therefore by sending it I am making it clear I am not accepting the GOGW offer alone. I am also making it explicit so I have future reference if I am offered more money and out of the money offered they take out the 280 without making it explicit which apparently is a tactic. My first thoughts were yours but I feel safer with the rejection letter especially since Abbey are defending my claim Fran

[Frankey]

:?

 

Hi plot thickens - submitted N1, abbey are defending - waiting for a questionnaire

 

1. I have already rejected offer of 230 made just after N1 submitted

2. Today I receive copy of Abbey's defence and offer of half claim 1279.61 ( includes statutory 8 %) subject to any other GOGW offers - ie this figure minus 230 which they left in my account even though it was rejected

3. They ask me to agree to settle to limit further expense to both parties and stop taking further procedural steps ie a.q.

4. They say my claim is based on an argument I should not pay any charges at all, do not accept the charges are greater than Abbey's actual loss, Abbey would be entitled to charge me 'something for the expenses'.

5. They are liquidated damages and not penalty charges and therefore valid pre-estimates of loss.

 

I want to write back rejecting this and agree with 3. ask them to disclose how the charges are proportionate to the Defendants expenses, ie give a detailed breakdown, mention s.15 supply of goods act, refer to the Yorkshire and Clydesdale evidence of costs and remind them the opportunity to provide a breakdown has already been given in previous letters.

 

I do not know what to say about liquidated damages - any advice. Do you think I should write all this stuff in my rejection letter to persuade them to settle or should I accept? Not sure what to do - it is a serious amount if money worried Fran:-?

[Mad Nick]

Fran,

 

I would stick to rejecting the offer and asking again for them to disclose their costs, but I wouldn't reply to their points, 3, 4 or 5.

 

3. it's up to them - they should disclose their costs or cough up

4&5 are b******s. LDs are used in contracts to limit both parties liability to the consequences of default, rather than wait for the default to arise and then have the argument. LDs must be a genuine pre-estimate to be enforceable, so if there is a default and the LDs are challenged and found not to be a genuine pre-estimate then they cannot be enforced. Dunlop v New Garage (1915) is one of the leading (old) cases setting the tests for that. http://www.swarb.co.uk/lisc/Damag19001929.php (about halfway down). In our cases, the position is that we have challenged the basis of the default charges, so it's up to Abbey to show - by disclosing their costs - that their default charges are based on a genuine pre-estimate of loss and are therefore not penalties. If they are found to be penalties, then Courts don't then assess what would have been fair compensation - it doesn't work like that, LDs are either enforceable or they're not. Besides, suspend reality for a second and suppose Courts did assess what would have been fair - the Court could only do that if Abbey disclosed their costs LOL. So 4&5 are, as I say, b******s and I would suggest that your letter just ignores them.

Regards, Mad Nick

[adamc6671]

Hi Fran and Nick -

 

How about replying to 4 & 5 as follows -

 

4) If you disclose your precise costs in managing defaults on my account, we could agree a sum that I should actually pay. In accordance with the relevant law, I agree that I should pay what it has actually cost you, but no more. Otherwise I shall continue to claim a full refund.

 

5) Liquidated Damages must still be a genuine pre-estimate of your costs, and therefore I still require you to reveal precisely what your actual costs are in order that we can agree a fair sum for liquidated damages. If you will not do this, I shall continue my claim for a full refund.

 

As far as I can see, this puts the ball firmly back in their court, as it were. What do you both think?

[adamc6671]

As a further thought, how about the following -

 

'I calculate your costs as follows -

 

a) For automated charges, you could fairly charge me at most 5 seconds of computer time, which could fairly be charged at £120 per hour which cost includes hardware, software, set up, and operating costs. A fair charge would therefore be no more than 20 pence.

 

b) For charges where manual intervention is required, you could fairly charge me at most 5 minutes of a Clerk's time. The Clerk would be employed at approximately £6 per hour. Including 'on-costs' this figure would rise to no more than £10 per hour. You could therefore fairly charge me no more than 83 pence in these cases.

 

If you disagree with these calculations please supply me with your own detailed calculations in order that we can proceed to an agreed solution. If you will not do this, I will proceed with my claim for a full refund.'

 

What do you think?

[Frankey]

Thanks Mad Nick - liquidated damages - just another bit of rhetoric - shall write adding bit about disclosing precise costs again - I want my rejection letter to illustrate I am serious and know what I am doing! Really helpful reply Fran

[Frankey]

Hiya

 

I think both points 4 and 5 are good - primary issue for my letter is to reiterate the disclosing costs bit which undermines their defence again so shall add this to my rejection letter - I feel confident about my next step now thanks Fran

[Frankey]

Hi

 

spent hours filling in and reading for aq today. Sussed it all bar one tiny bit - in D witnesses

 

Witness Name - have put my name - this is correct

 

Witness to which facts - d k what to put - was gonna put 'all facts presented in claim'

 

anyone done this Fran:-|

[Michael Browne]

Witness Name - have put my name - this is correct

Yes

Witness to which facts - d k what to put - was gonna put 'all facts presented in claim'

That's fine

[Frankey]

Thanks Michael - you have helped me at every stage Fran

[Frankey]

Hi - at aq stage - filling in 150

 

I can't believe it. I have udpdated my s.o.c. and knocked off last ten charges that added up to refund of 280 that I rejected as full and final offer. I 've had 1300 offered since then which I confidently rejected and now I notice that on the rubbish print statements they send you one charge of 20 in a row of other charges of 20 was infact a 'rev' and has no minus. No idea what 'rev' is - but it has no minus sign in front of it.

 

Should I just delete this charge as am sending update anyway so gives me excuse to delete it and hope no-one notices as this is final schedule for court, leave it and hope no one notices ( no one has so far) or kill myself.

 

Please help - got 4 days to get a q in. Fran x

[charleyfarley]

Fran,

 

or kill myself.

 

if you want to kill yourself then mariejader has been wielding a big axe today and going round executing people, so I'm sure she'd lend it to you for a small fee.

 

"rev" has got to be reversed, so if they've not put a minus sign in front, then they are incompetent.

 

i know it's not the done thing but I would do as you suggest and delete it and argue the toss about it when the time comes. Abbey make so many mistakes I doubt very much whether they'll pick up on it:)

 

PS this is another new thread, where are all your others?

[Frankey]

Hiya Charley - asleep by quarter to eleven so just read this! I have no idea where my other threads are - in fact don't know how I am supposed to keep them all together - but I am proud to announce I am quite confident I understand the word 'thread' now which has taken some time.

 

I think the 20 rev was a reversed charge that I had reversed at the time and no one has noticed so far. I'm going to send the updated schedule with 280 refund already taken off and delete the 20 rev so that I am straight.

 

The 'axe' can wait for a few days now as decided to live after a good night's sleep. Fran

[Frankey]

Hi

 

have received abbeys allocation questionnaire and they tick small claims track and then write 2000 for costs. The form explicitly says don't write any costs if you have named small track. Anyone else had 2000 costs proposed at this stage. What a cheek. They know they lose.

 

Also - burning issue 2:

Charleyfarley asked where my other threads are and why I start new threads. Good question. Why does everyone else know what they are doing except me? How do I keep my thread in a thread and not separate bits? I want to get savvy with this thing. Doing my bundle is taking forever. Fran

[gizmo111]

Hi

 

Also - burning issue 2:

Charleyfarley asked where my other threads are and why I start new threads. Good question. Why does everyone else know what they are doing except me? How do I keep my thread in a thread and not separate bits? I want to get savvy with this thing. Doing my bundle is taking forever. Fran

 

14 threads merged :o

 

In the top right hand corner click on quick links and then subscribed threads and keep adding to this one.