Hi guys, Thanks for the replies - I'll now start my own thread. I've had a thought on the signature......with modern word processors it is possible to have faded text on documents. I will get my MIL to sign over a faded date so that it can not be re-used. Thanks again and here goes....

Hi, I've just been reading some threads on the MBNA CCA agreements and understand this is the place to be. I am just starting out with a battle against MBNA because they are harrassing the hell out of my mother-in-law who is 63 and she is getting really stressed out by them. She opened her account over 10 years ago so I do not believe that they will have a copy of her original agreement. Her balance is nearly £10k even though she only spent about half that on the card. Please can someone confirm that I should send an SAR to them requesting the original copy of the signed agreement and not sign the letter so as to give them a signature to scan (hers of course)? Thanks in advance.

I saw a TV program not so long back that was discussing credit card contracts and that there were glitches in some of the contracts that allowed a couple in london to write-off their existing balances with some of their credit cards. Does anyone know anything about this and if so, could you point me in the right direction please. MBNA have been truly brutal with me and what was a £4-5k balance is now nearly £10k. I think it is disgusting how they treat people and it would be great if I could flick two fingers up at them.... Thanks in advance for any help offered.

Hi, I'm doing a bit of digging around on this topic, but have not yet found anyone who can give me a definative answer. I sent an email to the FOS today and should get something from them shortly, I'll let you know what they say. I would like to think that, if proved to be a mis-sold policy, then the client should receive a refund in the form of a cheque. However, as we all know with bank charge cases the banks often exercised their legal right of set-off and in many cases reduced an outstanding debt as opposed to sending a cheque (this was usually when account was in default). As the PPI is "attached" to a loan I wonder if there is some small print somewhere that allows the insurance co to off-set as opposed to shell-out! I personally think it is very important to find this out asap otherwise there might be alot of disappointed claimants out there! I'll keep you posted.

Buzzing around in the PPI forum it appears that the point at which the FSA regulated the sale of PPI is quite important. Am I right in thinking that anything sold after the 2005 regulation can be referred to the FOS but they do not have jurisdiction over policies that were sold pre-regulation? If that is the case does that make pre-regulation claims harder to win? I would also imagine that the structure of the argument has to be different for pre-reg cases as you are relying on legal argument/precedent as opposed to the more simple complaint based on the policy being sold in a way that did not meet the regulators criteria for how the product should be sold. Does that mean that all pre-reg cases have to go through the courts or am I missing something here? I'd appreciate some input or a point in the right direction to a thread that discusses this. I am also keen to learn how long an insurance co. has to keep records. From what I could find on the FSA website it would appear that there are no requirements for insurance co's to keep records for a specified period of time. I'm sure these records are kept for the duration of the policy but there must come a point where records are destroyed and, in which case, claims are considerably more difficult to put together. My case with Lloyds does not fall into the above but I'm sure I have taken PPI on other finance deals in the past and I would be very interested to understand how the claims process works for older policies, sold pre-regulation. Is it worth making a claim or is that something I should put down to experience and save myself the aggro of digging around in the loft? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

HHNF - thanks for the reply. It would be very interesting to hear what the legalities forum has to say. Endowment cases were also settled in the way you suggested (cheque) and it makes complete sense to me, the consumer. Unfortunately, having been a member of this forum for some time now it is obvious that the organisations we fight against will use every trick in the book to wriggle out of facing-up to their responsibilities so it would be nice to see it in black and white! Would you be able to pose the question to the relevant person, that would be great.

Sorry to jump in here but is that actually correct? I've seen numerous bank charge cases where banks have excercised their "legal right to set-off". Refunds have ben paid into accounts to reduce borrowing and if accounts were in default, used to clear outstanding debt. Does the same apply to insurance companies? Could Blackhorse opt to off-set the refund against the outstanding loan as opposed to sending a cheque? I'd be very interested to hear if they could and more to the point, if they have a legal right to do so. One would have thought that if they had mis-sold the policy then the claimant should choose how and where the refund is paid but is that actually the case? Any ideas anyone?

HHNF - thanks for the SAR, I'll play around with it to suit my requirements and shoot it in. I'll be very interested to see the level of information they hold on the sale of this policy. Jayne - the DPA does not dictate how long information should be stored for, just how it is stored and processed. Storage times fall back on industry regulators (fsa) to set guidelines. There is no regulatory requirement for voice recordings to be stored for a given period of time (I'm quite surprised to hear that) and there are varying guidelines on how long other info should be stored for. This is a link to the section in the fsa handbook that relates to insurance company data storage. It's not very easy to understand but you're more than welcome to try and pick the bones out of it. http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/ICOB/Sch/1

Address - got it, thanks. SAR - Is there a specific format that I should be using? I was just going to re-jig the bank charge SAR. It would be helpful if there was already one on file somewhere...let me know.

Sorry to highjack the thread - which address did you use for complaints to BH regarding PPI? Thanks

Would also be interested to hear if there is a particular address I should correspond with....

I believe I am in a position where I can make a claim against Blackhorse for some PPI that was sold to me with a loan in early '05. I am self-employed and the £4.5k in PPI that was added (single premium) to the loan would not have covered me in the event of claiming on the policy. None of this was explained to me at the point of sale and the mechanics of how the PPI was added to the loan and the extra interest incurred were also not explained. Unfortunately my record keeping is not fantastic and I need to get some copies of documents from BH. Will they hold a file containing all of the documents relating to my sale and in which case, can I request a copy of it? Would this need to be done using a formal SAR or will it just be supplied on request? If PPI works in a similar way to endowment mis-selling I can assume that by seeing the level of information retained by the insurance co could make my life easier as the case progresses ie. trhe smaller amount of info they have means the harder it is for them to dis-prove a mis-sale. Is there anyone out there who has experience in this who might be able to answer some of the above, thanks.

Redsue - for the record it's FSA rules that state if a complaint isn't settled within 8 weeks then it can be referred to the FOS.

That'll be fine.

Any progress???

I believe Barclays have set up a new DPA "Issues" Department in Leicester. Tel 0845 6090806 Fax 0151 2546203 I've spoken to Sharon Gillett and Sue Hughes there. Might be worth a try for anyone who's struggling out there.

Lloyds (and SC&M) are definately in turmoil. I had a couple of cases on June 7th and settlements were faxed to the court 10 minutes before the PTR started. Lloyds did not even attend. I am convinced this delay was due to inefficiency as they had contacted the court that morning, prompted by a call from me the day before, claiming they had never received notification from the court of the PTR and could it be adjourned. They then faxed a letter 10 minutes later that was supposedly written and sent to the court on the 1st June offering settlement inj full, on both cases, including contractual interest. The icing on the cake came 3 days later when someone from SC&M called hoping to settle one of the cases that they had settled three days earlier! I'm glad SC&M aren't on my side! Whilst the above is my experience, make sure that you are fully prepared to go to court and comfortable with the reasonings behind the "No its not a fee for a service" argument just in case they do turn up for a ruck! And don't forget those T&C's !!!!

By coincidence I have received a Final Response from HSBC today. It clearly states - blah, blah, blah, should you remain dissatisfied the bank is obliged to advise you of your right to refer your complaint to the FOS, blah, blah, blah, you have six months from the date of the attached letter, blah, blah, blah. Check your paperwork thoroughly. This letter was accompanied by a FOS leaflet.

Wow, that sounds amazing. Is that a judgement by default or did you argue the matter in court?

That is standard procedure. HSBC should have advised you of that in final response or in their complaints handling literature. You were not informed by HSBC I'd point it out to the FOS and see what they say. (I would be surprised if it isn't in there somewhere though).

If you didn't point that out on the form (over 8 weeks) someone may have missed the fact that the complaint was 16 weeks old. I'd give them a buzz to clarify. Under FSA rules if a complaint isn't resolved within 8 weeks then you can refer it to the FOS without a Final Response letter. Looks like human error to me, I'd give them, a buzz.

nz1313 - if you would like to see a copy of the barristers report PM me with a fax number or postal address and I will happily send it to you. I was looking at ERC's as a potential "product" for a CMC but, on receipt of the report (which I commissioned) I decided to back-off as the majority of people pay ERC's without contention and were then trying to make a retrospective claim. Your case appears, on face value, to be somewhat different. How far down the court line are you? Is this something you could take to the FOS instead? There are obvious pitfalls with taking this through the courts (defendants costs for a start) and the FOS is a free service to consumers. It could be worth considering.

Someone else is more than welcome to correct me here but I don't see there being any reason why you shouldn't bulk it together. Just make sure you don't include any charges you've already claimed for. Did you sign any kind of acceptance during your first claim stating that you wouldn't make any further claims? If you're claiming past 6 years do some reading up on "concealment" in respect of the statute of limitations act.

I spoke to the head of the Technical Advice team at the FOS recently who said, in her own words, that the FOS would take a "very dim view" of any account closure even with a second, third or fourth complaint against the same organisation. In my experience, any threat of account closure that is countered with a mention of the A&L ruling, will send the organisation in question scuttling back under their rock.

Fax number is 01273 745356