It certainly does look like you've received a fairly standard response. Most banks seem to be insisting that they are quite within their right to charge these "fees" as they were quoted in T&C's when the account was opened. As we all know, you can not contract yourself out of the law so I would keep pushing. You mentioned a pre-legal letter. By this do you mean a letter / notice before action? If you haven't sent one, send one and if you have already sent one, because they have not replied positively to you I would personally stick to your guns and commence legal proceedings. With the amount of help available on this site I would hesitate before engaging a solicitor but, at the same time, I can understand your concerns with it being £14k!!! Can I suggest you look into defending the case yourself using the help available on the site. There is a court "buddy" system in place to help people in your position. Always bear in mind that there is a chance that the bank will turn up to court so you have to be ready to defend but you aren't the first person in this situation and I know you won't be the last so do some digging around on the site and see where it takes you. You might be pleasantly surprised... Good luck and feel free to post any more queries.

Les, congrats on getting your court date, I'm quite excited for you! My LBA went on the 15th December so I shall be starting court proceedings early in the New Year. I'll keep following your thread with interest and start a new thread for my own case when it gets going. I somehow think that 2007 is going to be a good year....

I have had more charges on my Abbey account since starting the claim process in September. I sent them an LBA 24th Nov and have since received statements from them showing an extra £50 has been charged to my account. Can I simply add these to my original claim calculations? I assume I need to inform Abbey? I can't find a template anywhere....any ideas anyone?

Hi Haydn, I've been following this thread with interest as I too am of the opinion that, on the basis the banks have availed themselves of our money in an unlawful and unauthorised fashion, then interest can be applied in reverse at the unauthorised borrowing rate applied to our accounts. I am not a lawer, I hasten to add, but, apart from the CAG, I have some very heavy-weight 3rd party advice and the general consensus of opinion is that this IS arguable. I am adopting the approach that this is a charges + interest applied to account in lieu of charges + u/a borrowing rate applied to each charge for the amount of time (in days) since the default was applied to the account. I agree that to average this was tenuous to say the least, but I don't think you are on the wrong track, it just needs a bit of tweaking, calculations need to be exact and the argument sound. Keep us updated! What is interesting is that they've already paid you the charges.... My comments are my opinion only.

Hi again, I should have said last time, start a thread uner "mortgage companies" as opposed to Gen Consumer Issues - more people with more relevant knowledge will see it.

Hi, thanks for your reply. The T&C's (or Membership Key Points as they are described) are, in my opinion, not very enforceable (I am not a lawyer I hasten to add). Relevant to my case are the following. "The initial term of membership is for a minimum of twelve months. Membership cannot be terminated or suspended in this period. To arrange cancellation of membership, a cancellation request form must be obtained from the membership manager. Three calander months notice is required to cancel membership. This will be taken from the 1st of the following calender month from when the form is completed and returned to the membership department. Membership cancellation is only authorised after the completion of the initial membership term". I joined the club in Sept '04 at the rate of £120 per month for a family membership so the first 12 months has long gone. However, my gut feeling is that 3 months or £360 in "termination fees" is way beyond their liquidated loss for losing me as a member and is irrecoverable at common law as it can only be viewed as a penalty. I delivered the following letter to them today, by hand and await to see if they dare grace me with a reply. Re: Membership Contract CB6815 – Tim Harrow & Cat Conkey I am in receipt of your letter dated 10th November, its’ contents are noted. I now understand that the termination ’fee’ which you have applied to my account in relation to my breach is unlawful at Common Law, Statute and according to The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCR). If you say that it is not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breach, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs. I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract, which you agreed to at the time where it is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner, which complies with UK law. You insist you can impose charges in accordance with the terms and conditions of the contract. However, those terms and conditions are subject to the Common Law and the UTCCR. Indeed, the UTCCR takes precedence over any contractual term where the court finds a term to be ‘unfair’. The court can then treat that term of contract as having no legal effect. I am also of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co. Ltd (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English Law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. v New Garage & Motor Co. Ltd (1915) AC 79. Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. On the basis that my termination requires a simple computer procedure that respectfully would in reality, cost no more than £1 to carry out, I have enclosed £1 in full settlement of my account with you. If I have not heard from you within the next 7 days I will consider this matter closed. Yours Faithfully, I'll let you know how I get on......

Hi, You will need confirmation of what I say as I am not a lawyer or a regulated mortgage broker but I can not see why your husband, being that he is amicable, can't either assign any responsibility of the mortgage over to you or alternatively give you authority (usually a simple letter will do, might need to be more "official" in the case of a mortgage) to act on his behalf. This will mean that you can sign papers on his behalf, thus eliminating the issue SPML have with him being taken off the mortgage. I have worked in endowment mis-selling for several years and have seen hundreds of people who have separated and where the policy has been assigned to one party or the other. The policy is still in joint names but on being assigned to one party, the other party relinquishes any responsibility to the policy and profit or loss. The ERC is a different kettle of fish. There are a few of us on the site who are in the process of claiming back ERC's from, guess who, SPML!!! There is a person by the name of Les Gunn on the site who seems to be a little further ahead than everyone else and is very helpful. We all believe these ERC's fall under the catagory of "unfair penalties" thus making then irrecoverable at common law (ie. if they took you to court you would have a good chance of success) but this is only speculation at the moment and nothing is concrete until precedents are set in County Court or higher. I would be tempted to cross one bridge at a time, sort the authority out, sort out a parachute mortgage (I'm sure there are plenty of hungry lenders out there that will offer to cover the ERC if necessary) and then see what SPML do. By that time we will have either met SPML in court or they will have folded. Either way we'll know all the answers to the ERC questions! Good luck, don't give up, these organisations prey on weakness and what if they do, you'll get all the support you need from the CAG.

Hi, Can anyone tell me if the UTCCR 1999 would cover a contract I signed for a family gym membership? Like a large percentage of the population I joined a gym and never really went so recently cancelled my agreement. To my horror they want to charge me £360 (£120 x 3 months) for terminating my contract. In my opinion this cancellation fee is way in excess of the actual cost of terminating my agreement so can be seen as a "penalty". I am going to send them a rude letter quoting the UTCCR just to see if I can get away with it anyway but was just wondering if I am right to do so. Any ideas anyone?

At the request of of a fellow member I am starting a new thread to plot the progress of my SPML ERC claim. Even though I was aware at the time of buying my mortgage SPML were considered to be a sub-prime lender it has always amazed me that they could charge so much for an early redemption. I was self-employed with only 1 year of accounts at the time and the high street wouldn't touch me with a barge-pole so I had no option other than to borrow from a company such as SPML. All they needed was 3 months bank statements to prove I had a certain amount of money hitting my account every month. Now I know why they were so keen to lend me the money, they must be making a fortune. I have now received a letter from SPML further to my request for repayment of charges which I sent to High Wycombe on 1st November (reply came from 6 Broadgate).They have sent me: A copy of my statement of account My mortgage T & C's A copy of my application form A copy of my Early Repayment statement issued to my solicitors 3rd May 06 Based on the above they have been unable to uphold my complaint as the ERC "was calculated in accordance with the Terms and Conditions of my mortgage offer" and they are directing me to section 8 of the Key Features Illustration in my Mortgage Offer letter which is the basis of the mortgage contract to which I agreed. I take it I should now take my gloves off and send them an LBA.....? Am I right to claim the whole £6763.88? The only reason I ask is that I saw a calculation on the site somewhere that took into consideration the profit that SPML would have lost by my early redemption and was led to believe that it was right to take it into consideration. Any ideas anyone???

Hi all, I have now received a letter from SPML further to my request for repayment of charges which I sent to High Wycombe on 1st November (reply came from 6 Broadgate).They have sent me: A copy of my statement of account My mortgage T & C's A copy of my application form A copy of my Early Repayment statement issued to my solicitors 3rd May 06 Based on the above they have been unable to uphold my complaint as the ERC "was calculated in accordance with the Terms and Conditions of my mortgage offer" and they are directing me to section 8 of the Key Features Illustration in my Mortgage Offer letter which is the basis of the mortgage contract to which I agreed. I take it I should now take my gloves off and send them an LBA.....? Am I right to claim the whole £6763.88? The only reason I ask is that I saw a calculation on the site somewhere that took into consideration the profit that SPML would have lost by my early redemption and was led to believe that it was right to take it into consideration. Any ideas anyone???

yes, i believe she goes by the name "red fox"

Thanks Ian. A letter will start winging its way to them tonight.....

Is there a standard letter anywhere i can tweak?

Citicards have done this to a friend of mine.

Hi, I'm in the same boat. Having got "the bug" through writing a rude letter to Barclaycard and getting all of my wife's premiums refunded (only £53.64 but a victory all the same) I would like to do the same for my mother-in-law. Her position is slightly different and is as follows: She has had, at points, quite large outstanding balances on her MBNA card. When she got the card in 2001/02 she took the PPI because she was worried, due to the size of the balances, that if there was a medical / health problem and she couldn't work, she didn't have enough spare cash to cover the repayments and would default. When she had a Cancer scare in 2005 she called Natwest (another creditor) they stumped up immediately. MBNA on the other hand said, "Terribly sorry, you're no longer covered because we've changed the rules" She had paid premiums for the whole time she had this MBNA card and is insistant that she was never informed of this change to the policy. My problem is that she has destroyed all of her old paperwork including anything that she may have signed, boxes she may have ticked etc. How much information can I ask for with an SAR? Can I get more than statements. Can I still claim for her because this card and account was activated pre-regulation? Any tips anyone......?

Having read the thread, am I right in thinking that PPI sold pre Jan/Feb 05 when it was regulated is unclaimable? Could someone enlighten me please.

Hi, Thanks for getting back to me. I'm led to believe that the original criteria was very simple. You don't start paying the loan back until you are earning a minimum of £18.5k per year. My wife had a job about 4/5 years ago but was only earning (on PAYE) about £16.5k so never hit the required level of income. Since we've had kids I have supported her and she hopes to start working on a pert-time basis again next year with a view to going full time in the next 2-3 years. The loans are supposed to be deferred each year and some fairly simple forms are sent out, you declare that you haven't hit the required level and have to give some back-up to this(in our case a letter from me saying I'm supporting her) and they go away for another year. I think there are 2 key issues here: 1) My wife has never earnt enough to start re-paying the loan, as per the t&c's. 2) The Student Loans Co were happy to defer half of the loan. I appreciate that there may have been some inefficiency on my wife's part in the handling of the deferrment of the second £4k of the loan but it seems crazy to be OK about one half and not the other! I have no idea if the CCA applies in this instance and am a bit stumped as to what to do. I'd happily start paying a little bit, say £25 per week, but in reality, half of me says "Bugger them, why should they be able to enforce a repayment on someone in my wife's situation". It just isn't right. Thanks for any advice you can give me and don't worry. I won't quote you on any of it!

No repayments made to date. The idea is you don't start paying a student loan until you are earning (in the student Loan Co's opinion) enough money.

My wife has about £8k in student loans. Unfortunately, half of her debt (about £4k) has not been deferred and they are now chasing her for payment. The reason the loan was not deferred was that they did not receive information from her in time to defer the loan last year. The Student Loans Company "sold" the debt to a scottish debt collection agency last year and we received lots of threatening letters but nothing really happened. While this was going on I had many discussions with the Student Loans Co trying to get them to see sense (my wife is now the mother of a 2.5 r old boy and a 1.5yr old girl, has never worked and even when she was working a few years ago, never actually met the criteria required to start repayments against the loan) but it was like talking to a brick wall. The just said that because the loan hadn't been deferred it had to be repaid in full. I even went to the CAB who thought the situation was crazy but unfortunately could not really give us any line of defence. The debt has now been sold to a new company, Westcot Credit Services in Hull and I am concerned that we might get someone knocking on our door in the very near future. I have always maintained that if it came to it, I would be happy for my wife to appear at court, with the kids, as I would feel confident that no judge out there could slap a £4k demand onto a non-working mother of 2, especially when half of her loan had been deferred by the student loans co and it was only timing / lack of communication and possibly a little inefficiency that has made the other £4k payable. Is there anything I can do to help? I haven't got £4k and my wife certainly hasn't (unless she's very good at keeping secrets!!) Can they make us pay? Can they come into our house and take our property? Do I have any rights? I am not trying to escape paying for something here, it just seems crazy that for whatever reason, they can try to force someone to pay back a loan when they have never met the repayment criteria. I would really appreciate some help here. I really don't want a bailiff turning up while I'm at work and frightening my wife and kids. Please, any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thanks for the reply. SPML (Capstone) will have a letter winging its way to them today. One small query. In the letter you (Zoot) make mention to the OFT's ruling in April 06. On the basis that this refers to the credit card industry and not to mortgage lenders is it in fact a bit of a red herring? I'd appreciate your comments.

I've been following this thread as I paid nearly £7k in erc's to SPML in May. I've seen a couple of initial complaint letters somewhere on the site but can't find them again. Could someone be so kind as to send me one or at least point me in the right direction. Thanks

I had a letter from Barclaycard this morning saying that all of their records, prior to May 2004, are stored on a Microfiche and that I could only get hold of them if I paid £3 per statement from their Cust. Serv. Dept. Can I take it that in light of the ICO's decision with Abbey that I can push B'card to give me this information for free?