Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[debt_mountain]

Welcome to the latest instalment on this saga…..

 

I wrote an email to Mr Maynard quoting Kings Hill No.1 Ltd address c/o Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited.

 

I received a very nice letter today from Ms Sue Pratt, Customer Assurance Advisor, Customer Relations, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. (Not Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd) lol

 

Anyway, here is her response:

 

Dear Mr xxx

 

I have been asked to respond to letter dated 5 November 2006 by our Mr Ken Maynard, Chief Executive.

 

(this is a true quote from the letter, mistakes included)

 

Initially I would like to apologise on behalf of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited (“Cabot”) for the upset and inconvenience this matter has caused.

 

(Nice of them, but my complaint was addressed to Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd, not Cabot)

 

These accounts were sold as part of an assignment of debts to Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd, part of the Cabot Financial Group by HSBC, The Bank of Scotland and Barclaycard and the status of each account is as follows:-

 

• The HSBC account xxxx was sold to Cabot on 2 May 2006 with an outstanding balance of xxx. The originator registered a default on 15 June 2000 due to non-payment of the outstanding debt. Since our ownership no payments have been received.

(Erm, someone is getting confused “our ownership” They previously state “These accounts were sold as part of an assignment of debts to Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd”)

 

• The Bank of Scotland Loan account xxxx was sold to Cabot on 28 November 2004 with an outstanding balance of xxxx. Since our ownership no payments have been received

( Again….“our ownership” They previously state “These accounts were sold as part of an assignment of debts to Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd”)

 

 

· The Barclaycard Visa account xxxx was sold to Cabot on 1 November 2004 with an outstanding balance of xxxx. The originator registered a default on 21 January 2001 due to non-payment of the outstanding debt. On 15 December 2004 you discussed a repayment plan with us of xxxx per month over xx months but no payment received.

(I have never discussed, either this debt or a repayment plan.)

 

(The only default on my credit file for Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd. Company Name: Kings Hill (No 1) Ltd, Started: 4/2/2000, Defaulted 21/01/02. Someone has got their dates confused.)

 

 

 

I note from our records that we have your email request for further information and for all communication to be in writing.

 

(I have still not received after two months, a copy of the HSBC credit agreement.)

 

Our first correspondence from you was received on 11 September 2006 when you requested that all future communication be in writing. My letter of 11 September 2006 confirmed that your telephone numbers had been removed from our automatic dialler and that the request for copies of the signed agreements had been referred to our Customer Relations Department. Cabot did not feel that your complaint needed to be referred to the Credit Services Association as we had complied with your request for additional information and confirmed it has been ordered.

 

(Their actual response was:

“A copy of your email has been passed to our Customer Relations Department to action your request for further information. I can confirm that today i have removed your telephone numbers from our records and all future communications will be in writing.”)

 

On 12 September 2006 you were advised by our Customer Relation Department that the additional information you required from each of the creditors might take some weeks to retrieve)

 

(As previous posted in this thread. I received 3 letters from Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, dated 29 September 2006. These letters state that they need to contact each creditor. No correspondence received on 12 September 2006.)

 

To date we have obtained and sent you a copy of the signed agreement for the Bank of Scotland loan account and Barclaycard Visa account. Our Customer Relations Department has again today chased each of the creditors for the remaining information not yet received. I can confirm once the payment breakdown (statements) for each account is received they will forwarded directly to you.

 

(No mention, of the still outstanding HSBC credit agreement. They have waited 2 months before chasing up the information, I requested.)

 

I can confirm that we are not the originator of the debts and are reliant on the retrieval of the information from each of the creditors. You have stated that under the Credit Consumer Act 1974 Sections 77 and 78 that as we have not supplied copies of the original agreements within the appointed time and therefore cannot be enforced. Cabot has sough advice from Trading Standards who have confirmed this does not apply to us, as we were not the “creditor” and the accounts have defaulted.

 

(My local Trading Standards, are the same as “Cabot” and I have also sought advice from them. It is true that “Cabot is not the “creditor”. However, as stated in the CCA 1974 Kingshill (No.1) Ltd are the current “creditor”:

 

189. Definitions

"Creditor" means the person providing credit under a credit consumer agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit, includes the prospective creditor'

 

“Cabot” have previous confirmed in writing that these debts have been assigned to Kingshill (No.1) Ltd.)

 

You state that we do not have your consent to disclose information to a third part unless we are legally entitled to do so. Under the terms of the credit agreement (which you do not deny signing) for HSBC, The Bank of Scotland and Barclaycard you gave your authority for each of the accounts to be passed to a third party. You feel that Cabot Financial is a third party but as advised at the beginning of this letter Kingshill (No.1) Ltd is part of the Cabot Group.

 

(As they have been unable to obtain a copy of the signed agreement for HSBC, how do they know my authority was given? Authority may have been given in the original credit agreement for information to be passed to a Debt Collection Agency (in this instance Kingshill (No.1) Ltd). However, authority was not given for them to then pass my information onto another company.

 

We are confident that we have not breached any of the legislative requirements you refer to you in your letter and therefore refute your assertion that any compensation is payable.

 

(Quoted inclusive of mistakes)

(They are adament that they have not breached any of my rights under the Data Protection Act 1988, CCA 1974 or the HRA 1998.)

 

Once again I must apologise for the time delay in retrieving the request information but unfortunately we are reliant on the originator to obtain this from the archives.

 

Should you have any further queries relating to this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me on xxxxxxxx

 

They really are tying themselves in knots. They keep referring to all the companies at all the wrong times. It helps my defence and again I would like your permission to share some of this info in court.

 

They wnt to use whichever name helps them try to wriggle out of a situation then immediately use another name to get out of the next.

 

I will need to be carefull not to tie myself up with this when I get to court and keep a clear head.

[tbern123]

They really are tying themselves in knots. They keep referring to all the companies at all the wrong times. It helps my defence and again I would like your permission to share some of this info in court.

 

They wnt to use whichever name helps them try to wriggle out of a situation then immediately use another name to get out of the next.

 

I will need to be carefull not to tie myself up with this when I get to court and keep a clear head.

 

Feel, free to share this... This particular letter was on their flash Cabot Financial shiney headed paper... Still signed off at the bottom by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limted, even though I addressed to Kings Hill (No1) Limited:confused:

[debt_mountain]

tbern

I just found another mixup in there names. In the defence they sent in they said 12- it is denied that "cabot" has ownership of the debts. It is the defendants case that

Kingshill (No 1) limited are the owners of any debts to which the claimants refers. The claimants admits that of the 4 accounts he refers to only one still constitutes a debt which alleged to be in dispute.

but when I dug out my letters I found the letter saying they now own the debt and guess who owns it "cabot financial group", I don't actually think theis is a true bisuness registered at register house. It was also on standard Cabot finacial europe paper.

 

Oh how I love these people, they just keep feeding us more evidence.

[tbern123]

tbern

I just found another mixup in there names. In the defence they sent in they said 12- it is denied that "cabot" has ownership of the debts. It is the defendants case that

Kingshill (No 1) limited are the owners of any debts to which the claimants refers. The claimants admits that of the 4 accounts he refers to only one still constitutes a debt which alleged to be in dispute.

but when I dug out my letters I found the letter saying they now own the debt and guess who owns it "cabot financial group", I don't actually think theis is a true bisuness registered at register house. It was also on standard Cabot finacial europe paper.

 

Oh how I love these people, they just keep feeding us more evidence.

 

I have good news and bad news for you Debt Mountain..

 

First the bad news...

 

Cabot Financial Group Ltd is registered with Companies House

 

Now the interesting good news....

 

It has only exisited since 21 June 2006

WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information

 

So this begs the question. How can Kings Hill (No.1) have been part of Cabot Financial Group when these accounts were assigned to it. When Cabot Financial Group didn't exist ???

[tbern123]

Some of the other companies

 

 

03514385KINGS HILL (NO. 4) LIMITED

03757424KINGS HILL (NO.1) LIMITED

03958468KINGS HILL (NO.3) LIMITED

03959268KINGS HILL (NO. 2) LIMITED

 

Does anyone know where, I can get a company structure from, to see which company it linked to another company ?

[debt_mountain]

Some of the other companies

 

05714535CABOT FINANCIAL LIMITED

03936134CABOT FINANCIAL DEBT RECOVERY SERVICES LIMITED

03439445CABOT FINANCIAL (EUROPE) LIMITED

05754978CABOT FINANCIAL GROUP LIMITED

04071551CABOT FINANCIAL HOLDINGS LIMITED

04934534CABOT FINANCIAL HOLDINGS GROUP LIMITED

03513705CABOT FINANCIAL (INTERNATIONAL) LIMITED

03888014CABOT FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT LIMITEDDissolved

03514391CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED

 

03514385KINGS HILL (NO. 4) LIMITED

03757424KINGS HILL (NO.1) LIMITED

03958468KINGS HILL (NO.3) LIMITED

03959268KINGS HILL (NO. 2) LIMITED

 

Does anyone know where, I can get a company structure from, to see which company it linked to another company ?

 

when I look at the file for cabot financial group ltd it says

 

 

Name & Registered Office:

CABOT FINANCIAL GROUP LIMITED

10 KINGS HILL AVENUE

KINGS HILL

WEST MALLING

KENT ME19 4LT

Company No. 05754978

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 24/03/2006

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

None Supplied

Accounting Reference Date: 31/10

Last Accounts Made Up To: (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)

Next Accounts Due: 31/08/2007

Last Return Made Up To:

Next Return Due: 21/04/2007

Previous Names:Date of changePrevious Name21/06/2006PALL MALL FINANCE HOLDINGS LIMITED04/04/2006ALNERY NO. 2580 LIMITEDso does the Date of Incorporation: 24/03/2006 relate to the incorperation of the previous company before it changed name from PALL MALL FINANCE HOLDINGS LIMITED

[tbern123]

And of course Cabot

 

For some reason the links to the seperate Cabot companies, don't work... so here is the list

 

WebCHeck - Select Search Results

[debt_mountain]

 

This is what I am thinking: (Can you please read and advise THANKS!! )

 

In relation to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

 

I would claim a breach of my right of privacy under article 8 of the HRA 1998 by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited. I also feel that they have committed an offence/s by the processing of my personal data (as defined by the Data Protection Act 1988

 

In relation to the alleged HSBC debt, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited have been unable to provide evidence of the agreement by me to enter in a Consumer Credit Agreement. As such is unable to establish that my consent had been given to process personal data (as defined by Data Protection Act 1998and has committed an office under the Data Protection Act 1988 (schedule 2. 1 The data subject has given his consent to the processing.).

 

Now in relation to Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd

 

Kings Hill (No1) Ltd have committed an offence/s under the CCA 1974 s77, in relation to requests made by the me for documentation. I was forced to contact them via their appointed agent as they had failed to provide contact details and instructed me to send correspondence to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Their offence is acknowledged and confirmed by their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

 

Kings Hill (No1) Ltd have committed an offence/s under the CCA 1974 s78, in relation to requests made by the me for documentation. I was forced to contact thme via their appointed agent as they failed to provide contact details and instructed me to send correspondence to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Their offence is acknowledged and confirmed by their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

 

Kings Hill (No1) Ltd have committed an offence/s under the CCA 1974 s97, in relation to requests made by the me for documentation. I was forced to contact them via their appointed agent as they failed to provide contact details and instructed me to send correspondence to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Their offence is acknowledged and confirmed by their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

Kings Hill (No1) disclosed personal data (as defined by the Data Protection Act 1988 to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd, regarding myself. Without notification to or authorisation from me Confirmed by correspondence received from their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

 

I claim breach of my right of privacy under article 8 of the HRA 1998 by them. They have committed an offence/s by the disclosure of personal data (as defined by the DPA 1988 to their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd. Confirmed by correspondence received from their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

In relation to an alleged HSBC debt, they has been unable to provide evidence of the agreement by me to enter in a Consumer Credit Agreement. As such is unable to establish that my consent has been given to process personal data (as defined by DPA 1998 and has committed an office under the DPA 1988 (schedule 2. 1 The data subject has given his consent to the processing.). Confirmed by correspondence received from their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

 

 

Their appointed agent, Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd has conceded, that the default was registered against me without sight of credit agreement or any other supporting documentation. Confirmed by correspondence received from their appointed agent Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

 

Is this you thinking out loud or is this the initial particulars of claim or are you thinking of writing back to them?

 

If you are writing back, while I totally understand your reason and the fact it is quite enjoyable sport, I would now just send my prelime, give them 7 days, then LBA and 7 days then smack them with the N1.

 

If it is the POC then it is a good start but I think from your earlier post you had way more evidence (issues) to add.

 

ps, once more the text from 1 of your posts will be added to my file ready for court.

[tbern123]

Just to add some more wood to the fire, I found this today.

Data Protection Act 1998: Standards and Best Practice Handbook for Government Departments: Data Sharing

 

Recommended best practice

4. Where personal data has been acquired by a department for one purpose, it can be shared within the department to be used for a different purpose, provided that the secondary purpose is not inconsistent with, or in contradiction to the primary purpose, or the processing is not expressly prohibited. Personal data should not be passed to another department if the data subject would not have anticipated such a transfer, unless a Schedule 2 condition (and where appropriate a Schedule 3 condition) can be identified. When departments intend to share personal data, it is vital that they check any governing statutes or other statutory provisions which may restrict what they propose to do.

 

So the Government, should not transfer personal data between departments, but Kings Hill (No.1) Ltd can transfer it to another company....

[Rhia]

I love it. Keep posting this info. Good work

[tbern123]

Quick question for you all.

 

Does a credit card agreement have to be signed by both the debtor and the creditor ?

 

On the Barclaycard agreement, the box for an Authorised Barclaycard Signature is blank.

 

If this has been incorrectly executed, does this mean that it is unenforcable ?

[andrew1]

Some of the other companies

 

 

03514385KINGS HILL (NO. 4) LIMITED

03757424KINGS HILL (NO.1) LIMITED

03958468KINGS HILL (NO.3) LIMITED

03959268KINGS HILL (NO. 2) LIMITED

 

Does anyone know where, I can get a company structure from, to see which company it linked to another company ?

 

 

tbern. I have downloaded all of the Annual returns of Cabot I know the share structure pre take-over in April - it will obviously be a little different now but Cabot Financial Holdings Group Ltd owns ALL shares of Cabot Financial Group Ltd who in turn own ALL shares in Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd. Kingshill No1 Ltd and Cabot Financial Europe Ltd are both jointly shown as subsidiaries of Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd and the directors are all the same for the three companies.

[tbern123]

tbern. I have downloaded all of the Annual returns of Cabot I know the share structure pre take-over in April - it will obviously be a little different now but Cabot Financial Holdings Group Ltd owns ALL shares of Cabot Financial Group Ltd who in turn own ALL shares in Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd. Kingshill No1 Ltd and Cabot Financial Europe Ltd are both jointly shown as subsidiaries of Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd and the directors are all the same for the three companies.

 

Thanks for the info as always...

 

Do you know it there is away to find out the structure before June 2006. As companies house say this is when Cabot Financial Group Limited came into existance ?

[debt_mountain]

.....Kingshill No1 Ltd and Cabot Financial Europe Ltd are both jointly shown as subsidiaries of Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd and the directors are all the same for the three companies. ?

Tber/Andrew1

 

The fact that I raised my N1 against Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd is probably lucky then? as they are to owners of kingshill and cabot financial europe. So how can they seriously say I have not sent my letters to the wrong company? numpties!!

 

AQ will be sent in this week. I bet they (cabot/kingshill are expecting me to give up.....

 

do we get to see each others AQ's?

[debt_mountain]

Thanks for the info as always...

 

Do you know it there is away to find out the structure before June 2006. As companies house say this is when Cabot Financial Group Limited came into existance ?

Can company house not supply this for a fee? I would split the cost ith you as we would both benefit from it.

[tbern123]

Can company house not supply this for a fee? I would split the cost ith you as we would both benefit from it.

 

I'll check the dates tomorrow... I need to know when each company actually began trading.

 

Those letters I sent you, were supposed to be copies of ones that were sent to me years ago. However, one of them states about both companies being part of the Cabot Financial Group... As this was only set up in June 2006 this would not have been possible....

[stiffnuts]

Quick question for you all.

 

Does a credit card agreement have to be signed by both the debtor and the creditor ?

 

On the Barclaycard agreement, the box for an Authorised Barclaycard Signature is blank.

 

If this has been incorrectly executed, does this mean that it is unenforcable ?

 

Section 61(1)(a) requires both creditor and debtor sign. So if what you say is true then the agreement is not properly executed.

 

I would never really advise on enforcability that is ultimately for a court to decide.

 

However section 127 states that a court shall not make an enforcement order if 61(1)(a) was not complied with.

[tbern123]

Section 61(1)(a) requires both creditor and debtor sign. So if what you say is true then the agreement is not properly executed.

 

I would never really advise on enforcability that is ultimately for a court to decide.

 

However section 127 states that a court shall not make an enforcement order if 61(1)(a) was not complied with.

 

Thanks Stiffnuts..

 

I remember reading somewhere though that section 61 didn't apply to credit card agreements, just to loans. I can't remember where I read that though.. I have been reading so much about different acts and different peoples interpretations... I am getting a headache lol

[stiffnuts]

Thanks Stiffnuts..

 

I remember reading somewhere though that section 61 didn't apply to credit card agreements, just to loans. I can't remember where I read that though.. I have been reading so much about different acts and different peoples interpretations... I am getting a headache lol

 

lol I cant sleep at night with the headaches I get.

 

No mate it just has to be a regulated agreement, therefore Section 61 applies.

[lookinforinfo]

Came across this website today which might be of interest as in it [you will have to scroll down the page a bit] Cabot appear to have really hacked off

this guy in Trading Standards.

He [the TS guy] seems to think that Cabot should not claim the whole

debt when they have paid a fraction for it. Be interesting to see what

Stiffnuts [can he say that?] makes of it. Check it out-

THE UK INFORMED INVESTOR FRONTPAGE

[tbern123]

Came across this website today which might be of interest as in it [you will have to scroll down the page a bit] Cabot appear to have really hacked off

this guy in Trading Standards.

He [the TS guy] seems to think that Cabot should not claim the whole

debt when they have paid a fraction for it. Be interesting to see what

Stiffnuts [can he say that?] makes of it. Check it out-

THE UK INFORMED INVESTOR FRONTPAGE

 

Thanks Lookinforinfo

 

And still they come- abusing the law -Thinking they are a sting operation. There is a company called CABOT FINANCIAL (Europe) LTD, of PO Box 241, West Malling, Kent ME19 4NA. Tel: 0845 0700116 - their main operation it appears is to buy up outstanding debts from other banks and credit cards and then try their expertise in getting an agreement from the unsuspecting debtor. We have tried to negotiate with them but they won't go under 50p in £ ( Despite the fact they paid a fraction of that to purchase the debt). Our advice is not to negotiate with them ( They are not your friends) but go straight to court and get disclosure of how much they paid for your debt- then leave it to the judge to decide. Believe us you will come out far better. Remember under the CONSUMER CONTRACT REGULATIONS 1999

they will have to prove that the amount of work done is commensurate with the difference between the purchase cost of the debt and the amount they are trying to collect.

Now, of course, like the two companies mentioned above they are purporting to be The Message Service Ltd, Registered Offices at Glebe House, 2 Clifton Road, Rugby CV21 3PX. (Do not respond to messages from them).

THIS IS A STING and an offence as they are pretending to be something they are not. - if this is tried on you report them immediately to the local standards authority in Kent and / or Warwickshire or contact:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/Adviser/News/debt.htm

Andy Lowther ,Office of Fair Trading ,1C/015 ,FREEPOST ,London, EC4B 4AH

[andrew1]

Can company house not supply this for a fee? I would split the cost ith you as we would both benefit from it.

 

The info I provided above is Pre June 2006. except: Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd - Annual return as at 14th September 2006- Amount of shares 'A' shares 12104790 @ £1 + 1 'B' share 1US$ all owned by Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd

 

Kingshill No1 Ltd Annual Return as at 1st April 2006 10Million shares @£1 - shareholder Cabot Financial Debt Recovery Services Ltd

 

Cabot Finacial Debt Recovery Services Ltd Annual return as at 11.02.06

924,001 shares issued @£1 - Shareholder - Cabot Financial Holdings Ltd

 

Direcotrs of all of above messrs Randall, Maynard & Glen Crawford. Randall being Co.Sec of the lot.

Cabot Financial Holdings Ltd - Annual Return as at 8th Sept 2006 19814190 shares @£1 - Shareholder - Cabot Financial Holdings Group Ltd.

 

 

 

Now I gotta go till Wdenesday - good luck I'll check back then.

[lookinforinfo]

Does anyone know how

CAF bank

po box 289

Kings Hill

West Malling,

Kent ME194TA

 

fits in with Cabot? Anyone fancy opening an account with them? lol

[tbern123]

Well spotted, but CAF Bank is a charity organisation...

 

Charities Aid Foundation

 

Charities Aid Foundation - UK offices

 

Charities Aid Foundation - Banking services

[lookinforinfo]

Re CAF bank-sorry I spoke. It would be logical to see a link with CAbot

Financial, but apparently CAF stands for Charities Aid Foundation.

What a coinciidence the initials and the addres are so close.

 

PS You were too quick off the mark for me Tbern. lol