Taking Cabot to court for failing to supply HSBC CCA + Distress etc

[tbern123]

This is were I am getting confused. As part of my original CCA request Cabot Financial (europe) ltd sent me three letters (they obviously printed them, themselves) from:

 

HSBC

Bank of Scotland

Barclaycard

 

Both the Bank of Scotland and Barclaycard letters state that the debts have been assigned to Kingshill No.1 Ltd.

 

The HSBC letter states that their debt was sold to Kingshill No.1 Ltd and they are now the effective owners.

 

On the statements that have sent me, each one says is was it was aquired by Kingshill No.1 Ltd.

 

I am just planning my next move and need to clarify what Kingshill No.1 Ltd have a right to do. Thanks Andrew1

[debt_mountain]

To keep the pressure up on Cabot, I have sent them another email:

 

Without Prejudice

 

 

1st November 2006

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

Ms Justine Horton

Team Leader

Customer Services Department

 

Dear Ms Horton,

 

Thank you for the acknowledgment of my email of 31st October 2006, I am glad you have noted my comments. Whilst Cabot consider their response, I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to bring more of my concerns to your attention.

 

As you are no doubt aware Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd is a member of the Credit Services Association. As Cabot have total disregard for the Office of Fair Trading and the Credit Consumer Act 1974, I expect that they hold the Code of Practice of the Credit Services Association in equal contempt.

 

However, I would like to draw your attention to how Cabot in addition to breaching the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines and the Credit Consumer Act 1974, have also breached the Code of Practice of the Credit Services Association. Please find below details of these additional breaches:

 

2. General Conduct

e) All members have a duty to ensure that their agents, sub-contractors and subsidiaries comply with the Association?s Code and Guidelines.

 

The relevance of the above extract will become clear in relation to the following breaches...

 

3. Legislation & Guidelines

a) Each member shall conduct its business lawfully, comply with all relevant UK legislation, regulation and judicial decisions and trade fairly and responsibly.

b) Each member shall also comply with Debt Collection Guidance as published by the Office of Fair Trading from time to time.

 

As clearly explained in my previous email, by failing to provide the information I have requested, Cabot have failed to comply with the Credit Consumer Act 1974 and appear to ignore their obligations under the Debt Collection Guidance of the Office of Fair Trading, by doing so they have also breached this Code of Practice.

 

4. Debt Collection & Default Guidelines

In attempting to carry out collection in default of payment, members of the Association should:

l) Take all possible steps to verify that the person being pursued, is in fact, the debtor.

 

As you have acknowledged in your email of 31 October 2006 'When purchasing accounts we are not supplied with any documentation (i.e. copy agreements or statements of account)' This statement can only be interpreted to mean that Cabot have not taken ANY steps to verify the identify of the debtor.

 

r) Where a debt or the sum owed is disputed, as soon as is practicable, supply information to the debtor in support of the claim. Where no information has been supplied by the creditor, obtain the required support, or failing that cease collection action.

 

I first requested this information over 51 days ago.

 

7. Complaints

IV. Complainants must be advised that one of the remedies is referral of the complaint to the Association where appropriate.

 

I would like to categorically state that Cabot, have NEVER advised me that I can refer my complaint to the Credit Services Association.

 

In summary Cabot are unable to dispute that they have broken the Credit Services Association's Code of Practice in 6 different ways, failed to meet their obligations under the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines and more importantly breached the Credit Consumer Act.

 

As previous stated, unless I have confirmation from Cabot by Friday 3rd November 2006 stating that the default notice applied to credit file will be removed, I will be forced to make the relevant authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, Credit Services Association, The Office of Fair Trading, The Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman, The Financial Services Authority, My Local MP and The National Press aware that you have committed a criminal act. I will also be forced to instigate legal proceedings.

 

Please also accept this letter as my formal instruction to Cease and Desist in the processing of my data. Kings Hill No.1 Ltd may have appointed Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd as their agent, but Kings Hill No.1 Ltd cannot give authority to a different Limited company to access and process my data without my prior consent.

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to Kings Hill No.1 Ltd or any other company they represent. I trust this email clarifies my position

 

 

Regards

 

tbern, can I be your friend, I would hate to have you as an enemy.

 

Nice one, yet another stinger to Cabot. I wish I could help answer your aquire/own dilema but he sods haven't replied to any of my letters. Well except the N1 posted to the court, they filed an aknowledgement and hopefully a defence by next friday.

 

Do you think they read these forums? What would the ramifications of them appearing in court with me and having to explain to a judge why they have repeatedly broken the law shown complete disregard for the code they are subscribing to.

 

If they do fancy a 1 on 1 with me in court do you and andrew1 want to come and watch, or any of the other Cabot "customers"? I will obviously post the date and time of the case here for all to see.

 

Another question, I am sitting tomorrow with my sister (who luckily happens to be a lawer) pulling my evidence together and as Cabot have not actually replied to me with anything can I use some of the quotes and exerts from your letters and quote the source of these quotes in court? can I get some copies of some of the key sections?

 

It would be good for the 3 of us to boost our evidence files.

 

Can't wait to see thier defence.

 

What can they defend with.

 

1 - no agreement, statements, deed of assignment, copy of default

2 - still sharing my data after the 42 days from my cca and section 10 & 12 letters

3 - where do kingshill / cabot start and stop. 1 of them doesnt have my permission to access my data

4 - CSE code breeches as detailed in your post above

5 - threatening behaviour

I am sure I have missed something.

 

I will send you a PM once I have pulld what I can for my evidence file.

 

speak to you soon.

 

Tbern, its Friday tomorrow I hope you have all your letters ready to post and completed you mcol or N1?

[tbern123]

tbern, can I be your friend, I would hate to have you as an enemy.

 

As previously posted, I am a NICE guy really

 

Do you think they read these forums? What would the ramifications of them appearing in court with me and having to explain to a judge why they have repeatedly broken the law shown complete disregard for the code they are subscribing to.

 

I do hope so it is about time, they realise how serious we are..

 

If they do fancy a 1 on 1 with me in court do you and andrew1 want to come and watch, or any of the other Cabot "customers"? I will obviously post the date and time of the case here for all to see.

 

That would be could, might give me more confidence about starting down the legal route

 

Another question, I am sitting tomorrow with my sister (who luckily happens to be a lawer) pulling my evidence together and as Cabot have not actually replied to me with anything can I use some of the quotes and exerts from your letters and quote the source of these quotes in court? can I get some copies of some of the key sections?

 

You can copy anything you like, as for copies, I can scan their letters and email you copies, if it is any help.

 

It would be good for the 3 of us to boost our evidence files.

 

Can't wait to see thier defence.

 

What can they defend with.

 

1 - no agreement, statements, deed of assignment, copy of default

2 - still sharing my data after the 42 days from my cca and section 10 & 12 letters

3 - where do kingshill / cabot start and stop. 1 of them doesnt have my permission to access my data

4 - CSE code breeches as detailed in your post above

5 - threatening behaviour

I am sure I have missed something.

 

I will send you a PM once I have pulld what I can for my evidence file.

 

speak to you soon.

 

Tbern, its Friday tomorrow I hope you have all your letters ready to post and completed you mcol or N1?

 

Working together is the only way to beat these 'people'.... I can't see how they can defend, without further incriminating themselves...

 

Letter's are all written and ready to go

[debt_mountain]

That would be could, might give me more confidence about starting down the legal route.

 

It will be in the Morpeth CC (just north of Newcastle), not sure if that is too far from you?

[tbern123]

Further to my posting in:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/41997-cabot-kingshill.html

 

I feel the question is also relevant in my own thread...

 

The link below takes you to Cabot's registration entry that is held by the Information Commissioner.

I hope this helps.

Cabot Financial Europe Ltd

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details

 

 

I note that entry does not mention Kingshill No.1 Ltd...

 

Have you tried searching their name

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details

 

Now, this is what perked up my interest....

 

Data Protection FAQs – For organisations

 

Q: What do I need to put in my fair processing notice, which is given to individuals before I process their information? You will need to outline what and how information is going to be processed. This is to make sure the individual knows exactly what is going to happen to their information and how it is going to be used. You shouldn't be doing anything with personal information unless the individual is made aware (unless certain exemptions apply)

 

So has anyone received a Fair Processing Notice from either Kings Hill No.1 Ltd or Cabot Financial (Europe) ltd ??

[tbern123]

It will be in the Morpeth CC (just north of Newcastle), not sure if that is too far from you?

 

Just a tad, I am way down south... But I think it might be worth a little road trip... Just to see their faces...

[tbern123]

This is were I am getting confused. As part of my original CCA request Cabot Financial (europe) ltd sent me three letters (they obviously printed them, themselves) from:

 

HSBC

Bank of Scotland

Barclaycard

 

Both the Bank of Scotland and Barclaycard letters state that the debts have been assigned to Kingshill No.1 Ltd.

 

The HSBC letter states that their debt was sold to Kingshill No.1 Ltd and they are now the effective owners.

 

On the statements that have sent me, each one says is was it was aquired by Kingshill No.1 Ltd.

 

I am just planning my next move and need to clarify what Kingshill No.1 Ltd have a right to do. Thanks Andrew1

 

I managed to answer my own question. Kingshill are the owners of these three debts.

 

Assignment of Debt

Where a debt owed to a party is assigned (sold) by that party to another. The party who owes the money then pays the new lender. Notice of assignment of a debt should be in writing.

Assignment of Debt

[lookinforinfo]

I'm following your thread with great interest and would lke to add my two penny worth, if I may.

I can understand that you are concentrating on the debt that they have defaulted.

From what I have read though , the other two debts are nothing to do with you

whatever.

And yet the OFT are quite clear that to pursue someone "where it is uncertain

they are the debtor" is in breach of the guide lines on Debt Collection and

is considered an unfair practice in breach of their Consumer Credit Licence.

 

They also think that it contravenes the fourth principle of the Data Protection Act

that "personal data shall be accurate and where necessary, up to date.

[tbern123]

I'm following your thread with great interest and would lke to add my two penny worth, if I may.

I can understand that you are concentrating on the debt that they have defaulted.

From what I have read though , the other two debts are nothing to do with you

whatever.

And yet the OFT are quite clear that to pursue someone "where it is uncertain

they are the debtor" is in breach of the guide lines on Debt Collection and

is considered an unfair practice in breach of their Consumer Credit Licence.

 

They also think that it contravenes the fourth principle of the Data Protection Act

that "personal data shall be accurate and where necessary, up to date.

 

Thanks, my main concern is the default. The other two 'accounts' do not appear on any of my credit files, so they are a secondary concern. I think :grin: that I have made my feelings about their breah of the OFT guidelines and of the CCA clear to them.

 

However, thanks for the info about the Data Protection Act, I will add that to my letters that I will be sending to lord and sundry if Cabot refuse to remove the default.

 

I won't hold my breath, in one way I hope they see sense. In another way, I hope they don't.

 

The way, I currently understand things is that I can take Kingshill No.1 to court because they have incorrectly registered the default and I can take Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd to court for processing my data without my permission. They may be part of the same group but they are independent companies possibily guilty of different acts.

 

Debt Mountain, is doing this at the moment I keeping an eye on his progress. I think I will have no option though, but to take them to court.....

[lookinforinfo]

I'll be honest, defaults are not something that I know much about. But can they

register a default without at least writing to you? And do they need a ccj in force

before applying a default. If they do, then don't they have to declare that they

wrote to as part of their justification for going to Court?

 

I assume that if they ever bother to respond to your cca, then it should include

info on the ccj/default. Wouldn't it be fun if the default was for one of the

other accounts? ie Barclaycard.

BTW have you checked with the cras to find out more about the default [who

does it relate to] and in view of Cabots inability to give you what you have asked

for, is it not time that the cra removed it?i

 

as k them to remo

[andrew1]

I'll be honest, defaults are not something that I know much about. But can they

register a default without at least writing to you? And do they need a ccj in force

before applying a default. If they do, then don't they have to declare that they

wrote to as part of their justification for going to Court?

 

I assume that if they ever bother to respond to your cca, then it should include

info on the ccj/default. Wouldn't it be fun if the default was for one of the

other accounts? ie Barclaycard.

BTW have you checked with the cras to find out more about the default [who

does it relate to] and in view of Cabots inability to give you what you have asked

for, is it not time that the cra removed it?i

 

as k them to remo

 

What you find LFI is that the minute the debt is bought by the DCA they appear to whack a default onto your credit file because in their eyes the account is in default when they take it on. The original lender SHOULD take their default off, but as happens and did with one of mine both appear on your file. You do not need to have had a ccj to obtain a default. Defaults are generally applied if the debtor gets 2 or 3 months behind in payments. The creditor is supposed to write telling you that if the arrears are not paid in x days then a default will be registered.

 

The irritating thing about dca's ( apart from the obvious ) is that they do not write and a) tell you they have the right to collect the debt b) ask your permission to process your data (Data Protection Act rules) c) give you notice they are putting a default on or give you the opportunity to challenge it.

 

I have just had an old cc debt sold to wescot and I have cca'd them but a default has already been registered by wescot. I have written to them ( for the benefit of those who have the same thing happen) telling them that until they provide the info under the cca and prove their right to ownership/collect the debt then I will prosecute them if they do not remove the default within 7 days and inform me they have done it. The funny thing is that the cc company has repaid me all the charges I claimed and wescot haven't come up with anything and now need a court order to collect it ! such is life

A ccj comes later down the line and they issue an N1 ( whats an N1 )

[tbern123]

Ok, came home and shock horror and surprise NOTHING from Cabot !!

 

I had an interesting conversation with a very helpful lady at the Information Commissioner's Office today.

 

Has anyone made a S.A.R request to Kingshill No.1 Ltd ? If so did the response come from Kingshill No.1 Ltd or Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd ?

 

It is very important which company provided your data, can people please let me know a.s.a.p

 

Has anyone ever received anything directly from Kingshill No.1 Ltd ?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves'

[tbern123]

I assume that if they ever bother to respond to your cca, then it should include info on the ccj/default. Wouldn't it be fun if the default was for one of the other accounts? ie Barclaycard. BTW have you checked with the cras to find out more about the default [who does it relate to] and in view of Cabots inability to give you what you have asked for, is it not time that the cra removed it?i as k them to remo

 

Hello, the default is in the name of Kingshill No.1 Ltd, my credit file does not state the previous owner... I have asked the CRA's to remove it, but they are currently in the process of writing to Kingshill No.1 Ltd

 

The more digging I do into the whole Cabot / Kingshill relationship the more interesting it becomes......

[tbern123]

Thanks for letting me know Andrew1

 

[andrew1]

Has anyone ever received anything directly from Kingshill No.1 Ltd ?

 

 

Not yet but I have written to them, be interesting to see who replies.

 

Sarah

[tbern123]

Not yet but I have written to them, be interesting to see who replies.

 

Sarah

 

This is my current train of thought.... Kingshill (No.1) Limited have appointmented Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited to act as their agents.

 

Good for them, but I think it is time to cut out Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited out and only deal with Kingshill (No.1) Limited as there is no reason why we should have to deal with their appointed agent.

 

As far as possible court action is concerned, I am considering taking both to court as they are DIFFERENT companies

 

Kingshill (No.1) Limited

 

They did not provide me with a Fair Processing Notice, when they purchased these alleged debts, they have passed my personal data onto another company without my consent or prior notification. Failure to provide notification of default, Failure to comply with Credit Consumer Request.

 

Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited

 

They did not provide me with a Fair Processing Notice,when they gained access to my personal information. They have stored and processed my data without notification of my consent.

 

I have never recevied any correspondance from Kingshill, I don't have an email address or a telephone number for this company and even after a google search all I can find is a postal address. I only have Cabot's word that they have been appointed as agents. The Information Commissioners Office are checking some information for me in relation to the disclosure of information between these two companies. Once they come back to me, I'll have a better idea of where I stand.

 

I am not going to let this go, I want something positive to come out of what has been going on

 

Any advice from legal experts, would be greatly appreciated

[lookinforinfo]

What you find LFI is that the minute the debt is bought by the DCA they appear to whack a default onto your credit file because in their eyes the account is in default when they take it on. The original lender SHOULD take their default off, but as happens and did with one of mine both appear on your file. You do not need to have had a ccj to obtain a default. Defaults are generally applied if the debtor gets 2 or 3 months behind in payments. The creditor is supposed to write telling you that if the arrears are not paid in x days then a default will be registered.

 

The irritating thing about dca's ( apart from the obvious ) is that they do not write and a) tell you they have the right to collect the debt b) ask your permission to process your data (Data Protection Act rules) c) give you notice they are putting a default on or give you the opportunity to challenge it.)

 

Thanks for that Andrew. But surely both the dca and the cra run a great risk by

applying a default immediately after acquiring a debt. What is the legality for

that action when they have not established if the debt is owed by the debtor,

nor is there a debt repayment sceme in place for the debtor to default on. And as

you say they neither have the permission of the debtor to process his data, nor

even if the debtoe recognisesthat the new creditor is actually his creditor.[please

excuse the sexism, I do of course mean his or her when I say his-when in doubt

or talking generally, I revert to the masculine].

 

If the dca gets it wrong, then the cra is also liable for defamation as well as

breaches of the Dta Protection Act- so why can they get away with it? And why

do the cras collude when they are at risk also?

[andrew1]

Actually LFI (Hope that's not sexist ) Since taking up on Cabot and looking at my credit file I have become increasingly 'interested' in precisely what you have surmised. tbern has got the passion since I mentioned it an actually taken a lead in applying to the Information Commissioner to find out the nitty's of this. I have spoken myself to the Information Commissioner but nothing formally. Having run businesses I know that to sue a company you have to get the right one, I suffered precisely that when I tried to sue ICL the computer company and ended up 'assuming' the company I was dealing with was the company I sue. Not so, seperate Ltd co's - go back to GO and start again!

Hence, what is this myriad of companies Cabot have for? They refer to 'Cabot Financial Group' in their letters - no such company. Perhaps they have some ' trading as' styles but nothing is displayed publically. It was a known accounting practice to sometimes have ' service companies' within a group to protect the holding companies. I am not alleging that Cabot would do anything of the sort, but it certainly makes one wonder why Kingshill No1 Ltd buy the debt but never write a letter.They (kingshill) lodge the default with the CRA's without, as you say, ever writing to the debtor this must be a breach of the Data Protection Act and the CCA even if another company in the group has written.

 

I am awaiting the response from Kingshill to see what they come up with following my request to identify who they are on my credit file and we'll see what we do next but like tbern I am beginning to get my teeth into this one on principal because these guys threw the book at me once and I feel like they are going pay. I'll take it to the wire with them.

 

As for the CRA's, well, I think it has become apparent from the tyrade of postings that the CRA's do as they are told by their paymasters. They certainly should take more responsibility for the accuracy of the data they are posting into the public financial domain. It costs us all dearly in additional interest % rates. My son 30 yrs old never had a financial problem in his life wanted a first time buyers mortgage, solid job for 7yrs good income. He dumped a Hutchinson phone because it never worked, refused to pay a bill 3 yrs ago and he bought an 02 phone instead. He actually then paid Hutchinson. Hutchinson placed a default on his file and he never knew it and now will not remove it ( enter surelybonds letters!). Nationwide BS refused him a first time buyers mortgage because of it and he's had to pay £1500 over three years more to get one from HSBC - THAT's where it is all wrong.

 

In a previous posting I mentioned speaking to Experian & Equifax, one said Kingshill No1 Ltd was their client and never heard of Cabot and the other said it was Cabot Financial (Europe)Ltd who were their client. They just dump defaults on your file without question. I just had one from wescot on a debt just sold by a cc co., not a word about it. I had no agreement with wescot, I was told by Wescot they had bought the debt and that was it - usual payup or be squashed letter. But the default was promptly placed upon my credit files so I CCA'd wescot and have heard nothing since - I dont need a credit facility but if I did the ramifications of another default would drive me crazy. There must be methods of getting compensation for this. Interesting to know what and how !

 

 

.

[tbern123]

A quick question for the Cabot fan club..

 

Anyone receive a default notice from KINGSHILL NO.1 Ltd ?

[Rhia]

No - you can see my dealings on the other Cabot/Kingshill thread. But have not received ANY correspondence whatsoever from king's Hill (No 1) Ltd. Only Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd.

[tbern123]

This is what I am wanting to hear.. Kingshill have been defaulting people without notification.

 

Either we have been defaulted on the agreement with the original creditor or on a new agreement to repay.

 

1) My default is dated two years before Kingshill were assigned the debt, yet their name is on my credit file

2) I have never been contacted directly by Kingshill so no new agreement can be place, thus I couldn't have defaulted

[andrew1]

This is what I am wanting to hear.. Kingshill have been defaulting people without notification.

 

Either we have been defaulted on the agreement with the original creditor or on a new agreement to repay.

 

1) My default is dated two years before Kingshill were assigned the debt, yet their name is on my credit file

2) I have never been contacted directly by Kingshill so no new agreement can be place, thus I couldn't have defaulted

 

 

When you say your default is dated two yrs before Kingshill were assigned the debt what do you mean exactly? Are you saying this is the default placed by the original creditor then? or are you saying Cabot did it first?

 

 

Also, I had no default notice from Kingshill No1 Ltd but they are on my crdit file. I think were are beginning to peel them !

[tbern123]

My credit file and the statement states that the account was defaulted on 21/01/02.

 

However, the statement also says that the account was aquired by Kings Hill No1 on 1/11/04

[andrew1]

My credit file and the statement states that the account was defaulted on 21/01/02.

 

 

By whom?

[tbern123]

lol I thought you would guess...

 

Kingshill No.1 Limited my new favourite limited company