make_me_happy v HSBC ***WON***

[nettyg]

you'll get it back don't worry

[make_me_happy]

Hello everybody, some news for you!

 

After all this time, HSBC decided to write me a sod off letter. It was actually written by my Relationship Manager at my local branch. It was not written by the Service Quality Team. Here is the letter:

 

Thank you for you letter dated 21st February 2007, requesting a refund of overdraft charges for the sum of £3,248.00. By the way I have requested unpaid cheque charges only!!!

 

As a long-standing customer, I am sorry you have found it necessary to write to express your concerns about these charges.

 

HSBC believes that its charges are fair, reasonable and clearly advised to customers. the bank does not agree with your contention that the charges which have been applied to your account constitute a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable.

 

You have highlighted the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. These do not apply to business customers as they are not consumers for the purpose of the regulations. I did not know at the time that I was not supposed to mention the consumer bit on it!!!

 

The contract between the bank and its customer is governed by our Business Banking Terms and Vonditions. In respect of overdarfts, I would refer you specifically to clause 8. The circunstances in which these charges apply are clearly set out in the Terms and Conditions and the level of charges is stated in our published Price List, both of which will have been provided to you when you opened your account. Additional copies of our Terms and Conditions and our Price list can be requested from our branches, by telephone on 0845 606060 or online at Home: personal, business, online, internet, banking: HSBC Bank UK.

 

We regret to inform you that given these facts, the bank is unable to agree to your request. If you wish to escalate your concerns you can write to our Service Quality Team at the following address, enclosing a copy of this letter:

 

HSBC blah blah Blah

 

If we do not hear from you within the next eight weeks, we will consider matters resolved.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

What I cannot understand is that I have filled a MCOL on 5th March and they have acknowledged. What on earth is all this????

 

I understand I am a business customer and I made the mistake to include the Consumer bit on it, but does it matter??? What shall I do next????

[lateralus]

ok, let's get to it:

i'm no way up on business accts but i can read this:Business Claims - basic guide

and i guess i would just say - it looks very, very similar to the consumer stuff - only a little different.

i'm guessing that is why yours is being sent from your branch - you are getting attention from a more local level than the average claimer - where they are sending them all to leeds. yours may go there after this initial contact.

 

so, are you pretty cerain the mcol was done with the proper particulars for a business claim as per the above link?

if so, i'm guessing again here - i think you could/would/should????? send another letter to this fellow and reword it w/o the consumer stuff and say - in the interest of making myself more clearly understood - this is my request - that you return xxxxxx and then launch into the template letter for the prelim or the lba. then say...in the absence of any timely reply from your company, I have already filed a claim against HSBC.

 

I'm thinking if you wrote the wrong stuff on your prelim/lba - so what - just tidy it up and carry on - i think this is probably the business version of the fob off/sod off response. and as such - you just carry on. does that make any sense? you might like to try someone with a little more business experience - look at the signatures at the end of posts and see if you can see someone a little more experienced in this area. if i see someone - i'll let you know.

 

so, you've filed - are the particulars up to scratch for a business claim - if not - looks like you need to file another N244. if you want to read a long battle over business claim - try this one:

Business account over 19,000 in bank charges. How do I tackle this one? (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page) it's been fascinating to watch - the title lured me in months ago.

for more business claims:Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces? (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

 

i'm afraid i'm not being a lot of help here - maybe someone else will jump in.

good luck.

[make_me_happy]

thanks ever so much Latty.

 

I have written a wrong letter to start with, but i have managed to file my MCOL with the right particular of claim for business account. Unfortunately, after I have filed the claim, I have found out another £500 worth of charges which I had not included in my first claim. I have sent a form N244 which is currently waiting at the judge's desk to be seen and approved (it can take up to 4 weeks). My claim then went up to £4,200 with interest. HSBC have acknowledged the claim, but I don't know now what is next because of my alterations.

 

I will follow your advice then and write a response letter mentioning that I have already filed a claim with Moneyclaim online. This bloke who wrote the letter is our business manager and he knows us very well... funny enough. I thought that a respnse letter wouldcome from Leeds. Really confusing....

 

Any extra help will be much appreciated....!!!!

[lateralus]

i think you'll be ok if the partics are right - just use some of that wording above - to let him know he hasn't put you off...........

 

anybody else?

 

 

you'll get more response this eve, i'm sure.

[make_me_happy]

Ok, I have drafted a letter to my business manager and I will also send a copy to Colin @ Leeds. Here it goes:

 

Request for repayment of charges

Dear Matthew,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXX Sort Code: XXXXXX

Company Name: XXXXXXXX

 

In reference to your letter dated 26th March 2007.

I am writing again to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 4 years.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law. The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the bank; exceed any alleged actual loss to the bank in respect of any breaches of contract ; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the bank which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic v New Garage [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963.

 

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

 

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened this account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

 

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

 

I calculate that you have taken £3,756 in unpaid cheque charges. In the interest of making myself understood, I request that the amount of £3,756.00 plus £516.61 interest plus £120 court fees making a total of £4,388.61 is refunded to me without any delay. For your information I have already filed a claim with Moneyclaim Online on the 5th March 2007, claim no.: 7QZ29669 for the total amount.

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Please let me know your thoughts.....

[TUTTSI]

Hi Make Me happy,

I have just skimmed through your thread, I am presently claiming for my O/H on his Business account from HSBC. We are at the LBA stage so just a little way behind you. It's a shame that you had to amend your claim otherwise you would have well on your way. From reading your letter it seems that you have done the same as us, omitting reference to the Consumer Credit Act. I would not worry to much about the letter you have received as we all know they are not telling all!!I mean why won't they breakdown their charges and advise us, note no mention of it in thier letter. You have issued your claim and it will be transferred to a court near you, you will then get an allocation questionaire, which you will send back with another chq and then you will get a court date and hopefully a nice Judge will give directions ordering them to break down the charges with evidence.

Good luck with your claim, just shout when you need help.

Regards

DS

[lateralus]

think you've been reading up........looks fine to me.

[make_me_happy]

Hello everyone,

 

Latty thanks for your support; dsilverstein, please keep in touch!!

 

I have sent that letter to my relationship manager with a cc to Colin Langdale @ Leeds. I have already posted so they will be getting it tomorrow. I forgot to mention that on top of the letter they have put WITHOUT PREJUDICE. Clever, uh?

[nettyg]

hiya

i'm not familiar with the N244 form, but i believe if you ring the courts, they will help you fill it in. ring them and let me know how you get on ok?

 

sorry hun, i've only just read your message and you've been sorted since!!!

 

please ignore this!

[Guest Tracey284]

Hi there. I claimed against HSBC for my husband's business bank account which you can find at Tracey284 -v- HSBC Round 2. The bottom line was that they eventually paid out but not the full claim. They originally offered 1/3 of our claim which we said no to. We had actually claimed for activity charges as well which do not fall within the criteria, but they did pay some back. The bottom line was that they closed the account and I haved now reported them to the FOS.

[Castlebest]

Hmm.. I wonder if you got a letter from your local manager because Colin is rushed off his little feet or if its because its a business account? should be fun if they are allowing the local managers to get involved, can see furious little old ladies with shopping bags making scenes in the local branches

pete

[make_me_happy]

Hi there. I claimed against HSBC for my husband's business bank account which you can find at Tracey284 -v- HSBC Round 2. The bottom line was that they eventually paid out but not the full claim. They originally offered 1/3 of our claim which we said no to. We had actually claimed for activity charges as well which do not fall within the criteria, but they did pay some back. The bottom line was that they closed the account and I haved now reported them to the FOS.

 

I am quite scared they will close our account, which I am sure they will do. We have got a business loan with them as well, but this one I know they cannot touch really as we have been paying it with no problem. I have tried to open a few accounts, but time is against us and we have not had the spare time to go to the branch and give all documents needed to get it going. But I think we will have to do it as a matter of urgency!!!!

[TUTTSI]

Maybe you should try and open a parachute account just in case!

DS

[make_me_happy]

We are currently applying with NatWest and Barclays. What worries me most is not the current account, but the merchant services... I think i will have this one sorted as well....

[make_me_happy]

Ok, 28 days are up, my form N244 which has been acknowledged receipt on 17th March still has not been looked at, and when I go into the MCOL website it says that I am allowed to press the button to have the judgement by default as HSBC have not filed a defence. What to do??

 

I have phone MCOL last week and they said that the judge is very busy and will not be able to look at my amended claim before 2 weeks. So, I asked: What happens next? Will HSBC be served with a new claim and all the process will start again? She said: Yes!

 

Bugger.... I will need to wait at least another 3 months by the looks of it!!!

[lateralus]

nothing says you couldn't get an offer today and that's it - i'd concentrate on the dg side of things. make sure they have the amended spreadsheet with a little cover note explaining. then in about monday - ring to make sure they got it - then 10 days later - a letter - come back if you need help with it - but along the nudging letter lines - perhaps a little different - and 10 days after that another letter - each with a copy of your breakdown. won't be 3 months.

[make_me_happy]

Lateralus, thanks for that. I will do it. I just do not know what should I really write because I have never had anything from DG as yet. Also, I do not know if they know that I have amended my claim.

 

I have pressed the button of judgement by default just to see what happens and today the claim says: ' judgement rejected'. What does that mean? Is this because they know the claim has been amended?

[make_me_happy]

Ok, judge has reviewed the claim and has accepted the amendment on 19 April 2007. I do not know what is the process now, but I believe the court has re-served HSBC. I cannot be certain as I cannot monitor my claim online any longer due to the amendment. If judge re-served the bank on 19 April, it means they have until 2 May to acknowledge. Let's see what happens.

 

I keep all informed.

[make_me_happy]

Another thing: shall I send to DG a revised breakdown of the charges I am claiming? I have sent a breakdown before I filed N244, but not after.

[givememymoney]

Probably best to keep DG up to date with what you are after in case they want to make an offer

[make_me_happy]

Just want to really give some info to whoever has sent their form N244 to have their claim amended.

 

I have received original form back from court stamped on 20th April saying that the amendment to the claim was accepted by the judge. I have received the original amended N1 form I have originally sent, with a stamp on it. I did not really understand why, but thought that the court would re-serve this claim again.

 

Well, because I have amended the claim, I cannot monitor it online anymore. So, not knowing what it was happening I gave MCOL a call. they actually said that I had to serve HSBC myself with the original documents they have sent me back. I was very surprised as was nothing explaining what next together with the papers I have received. I then asked MCOL guy exactly what was the process. He said that I had to serve HSBC either by post or fax and then go to HMCS website and download form N215 and send with all the appropriate documents to Northampton Court to prove that the claim has been served. I would never had know if I hadn't phoned them!!!

 

So I have already faxed DG Solicitors with the Claim form. I took the oportunity to attach a breakdown of the charges I am claiming and sent form N215 to court with a copy of the fax transmission report.

 

Date of service 26th April 2007.

[lateralus]

live and learn, i guess. i'll let garyh know so he can advise that next time - glad you got it sorted and now we know - so, thanks for telling us!

[make_me_happy]

I think this would be a very good piece of advice as I am sure there are a few of us down there who have to send an amended claim form.

[lateralus]

i've pm'd garyh to ask if this is the normal course for an amendment - i'll let you know what he says.