Diskmandave -v- Robinson, Way & Co - The Never Ending Story

[babybear39]

Spellcheck Dave Before the cheeky VMs

[diskmandave]

Hi Dave,

 

Hah hah, I like that letter, I think I`ll have a copy if you don`t mind?

 

 

N.P

 

No worries...

 

Everything here is for sharing and for the good of the group.. ;-)

[ODC]

I hardly think the intellectuals at RWC will notice, do you?

[N.P]

Hi Dave,

 

I don`t mean to sound dim here, but I`ve just noticed your letter in Post 896 has the address on for Greater Manchester Police.

 

Did you put that on, or is it actually a letter supplied by the Police?

 

 

 

N.P

[babybear39]

I hardly think the intellectuals at RWC will notice, do you?

 

Probably not, but we have our reputations to uphold

[trevor33]

I sent a letter very similar to DMDs in post 896 to RW some months back. I got a very nice letter back saying that they would be happy to discuss the matter with TS, OFT or anyone else and that they did not regard their correspondence to me as harrassment.......b****y cheek.

I sent them a CCA request and heard nothing since.(touch wood.)

I think the new legislation is causing concern amongst the DCAs even though I know little about it.

Trevor33

[IIIUMINATI]

have a look this is what they are concerned about

If you look a there web site CsA they have flagged up this problem they all face hope it helps

The Consumer Protection

from Unfair Trading Regulations:

a basic guide for business

The Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory

Reform are introducing new regulations to clamp down on unfair

sales and marketing practices. They are designed to protect

consumers and honest businesses. Everyone who deals with

consumers will be affected including retailers, builders and

second-hand motor traders.

Many detailed rules around trade descriptions and misleading

price indications are being replaced with a general ban on unfair

trading. This broadly means traders will have to act in a way

that enables the average consumer to make free and informed

purchasing decisions.

In addition, they will put a stop to aggressive selling techniques

and misinforming and misleading people about products or

services. You’ll find these, the practices they cover and some

examples at the end of this booklet.

01 What are the regulations?

02

Businesses will no longer have to face unfair competition

from traders who use underhand practices. The changes

will also simplify consumer protection in the UK and across

the EU, making it clear which commercial practices are – and

are not – allowed.

What are the benefits for business?

Businesses that deal fairly and honestly with their customers

may not need to change the way they work at all. But to make

sure you’re treating your customers properly, you and your staff

must read and understand these new regulations.

What do I need to do?

If you don’t comply with these regulations, your company may

well be investigated by your local authority’s trading standards

service and other bodies. These lengthy investigations could

take up a lot of your business time and you could also be

prosecuted and fined. You could also lose your customers.

What happens if I don’t follow them?

03

For practical business advice and to find out more about these

regulations, please visit one of the following websites:

Business Link | unfairtrading for England

Business Link | unfairtrading for Scotland

Business Link | unfairtrading

(Scottish Highlands & Islands)

Flexible Support for Business for Wales

Business Link | unfairtrading for Northern Ireland

You can also contact your local authority’s trading standards

service for further advice on the regulations.

Where can I go for advice?

04

05

06

The new regulations ban traders in all sectors from using unfair

commercial practices towards consumers. They set out broad

rules outlining when commercial practices are unfair. These fall

into four main categories:

• A general ban on conduct below a level which may be

expected towards consumers (honest market practice/good

faith). This is intended to act as a “safety net” protection

for all consumers.

• Misleading practices, like false or deceptive messages,

or leaving out important information.

• Aggressive sales techniques that use harassment, coercion

or undue influence.

For a practice to be unfair under these rules, they must

harm, or be likely to harm, the economic interests of the

average consumer. For example, when a shopper makes

a purchasing decision he or she would not have made had

he or she been given accurate information or not put under

unfair pressure to do so.

• In addition, the regulations ban 31 specific practices

outright. These practices are set out on the following pages.

What do the new regulations cover?

The following practices

are banned outright:

07

The definitions used in this section are taken

from the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading

Regulations Guidance document, published March 2008.

08

Falsely claiming accreditation

1. Faking credentials

Claiming to be a signatory to a code of conduct when

the trader is not.

2. You’re not who you say you are

Displaying a trust mark, quality mark or equivalent without

having obtained the necessary authorisation.

3. Your endorsement is not real

Claiming that a code of conduct has an endorsement from

a public or other body which it does not have.

4. Not being true to the terms of the endorsement

Claiming that a trader (including his/her commercial

practices) or a product has been approved, endorsed

or authorised by a public or private body when he/she/it

has not, or making such a claim without complying with

the terms of the approval, endorsement or authorisation.

A builder claims that he is registered under the ‘†TrustMark’

scheme when he is not. This would breach the regulations.

† TrustMark is a scheme which helps consumers find reliable,

and trustworthy tradesmen to undertake home repairs

and improvements.

5. Special offer – not in stock

Making an invitation to purchase products at a specified

price, without disclosing the existence of any reasonable

grounds the trader may have for believing that he/she

will not be able to offer for supply or to procure another

trader to supply, those products or equivalent products

at that price for a period that is, and in quantities that are,

reasonable having regard to the product, the scale

of advertising of the product and the price offered.

This is known as bait advertising.

6. Limited time only

Falsely stating that a product will only be available for a very

limited time, or that it will only be available on particular

terms for a very limited time, in order to elicit an immediate

decision and deprive consumers of sufficient opportunity

or time to make an informed choice.

7. Illegally selling goods

Stating or otherwise creating the impression that a product

can legally be sold when it cannot.

8. It’s not right

Presenting rights given to consumers in law as a distinctive

feature of the trader’s offer.

9. Over promise, under deliver

Falsely claiming that a product is able to cure illnesses,

disfunction or malformations.

09 Pricing and product/service information

10. Promoting a product you don’t want to sell

Making an invitation to purchase products at a specified

price and then:

(a) Refusing to show the advertised item to consumers;

Or (b) Refusing to take orders for it or deliver it within

a reasonable time;

Or © Demonstrating a defective sample of it, with the

intention of promoting a different product (known

as bait and switch).

11. Scare tactics

Making a materially inaccurate claim concerning the nature

and extent of the risk to the personal security of the

consumer or his or her family if the consumer does not

purchase the product.

12. Creating extra paperwork

Requiring a consumer who wishes to claim on an insurance

policy to produce documents which could not reasonably

be considered relevant as to whether the claim was valid, or

failing systematically to respond to pertinent correspondence,

in order to dissuade a consumer from exercising his/her

contractual rights.

10

Promotional activities

A trader designs the packaging of shampoo ‘A’ so

that it very closely resembles that of shampoo ‘B’,

an established brand of a competitor. If the similarity

was introduced to deliberately mislead consumers

into believing that shampoo ‘A’ is made by the

competitor (who owns shampoo ‘B’) – this would

breach the regulations.

13 13. Being honest about advertorials

Using editorial content in the media to promote a product

where a trader has paid for the promotion (advertorial)

without making that clear in the content or by images

or sounds clearly identifiable by the consumer.

14. Faking goods

Promoting a product similar to a product made by a

particular manufacturer in such a manner as deliberately

to mislead the consumer into believing that the product

is made by that same manufacturer when it is not.

15. Closing down sale

Claiming that the trader is about to cease trading or move

premises when he/she is not.

11

16. Pulling the wool over their eyes

Passing on materially inaccurate information on market

conditions or on the possibility of finding the product

with the intention of inducing the consumer to acquire

the product at conditions less favourable than normal

market conditions.

17. Forcing the deal

Including in marketing material an invoice or similar

document seeking payment which gives the consumer the

impression that he/she has already ordered the marketed

product when he/she has not.

18. A wolf in sheep’s clothing

Falsely claiming or creating the impression that the

trader is not acting for purposes relating to his/her trade,

business, craft or profession, or falsely representing

oneself as a consumer.

19. Advertising to children

Including in an advertisement a direct exhortation to

children to buy advertised products or persuade their

parents or other adults to buy advertised products for them.

11

12

20. Pyramid schemes

Establishing, operating or promoting a pyramid promotional

scheme where a consumer gives consideration for the

opportunity to receive compensation that is derived

primarily from the introduction of other consumers into

the scheme, rather than from the sale or consumption

of products.

21. You can’t promise a win

Claiming that products are able to facilitate winning

in games of chance.

22. Winner takes nothing

Claiming in a commercial practice to offer a competition

or prize promotion without awarding the prizes described

or a reasonable equivalent.

Competitions and Prize Draws

13

23. Is it truly free?

Describing a product as ‘gratis’, ‘free’, ‘without charge’ or

similar if the consumer has to pay anything other than the

unavoidable cost of responding to the commercial practice

and collecting or paying for delivery of the item.

24. No win situations

Creating the false impression that the consumer has already

won, will win, or will on doing a particular act win, a prize or

other equivalent benefit, when in fact either:

– There is no prize or other equivalent benefit,

Or – Taking any action in relation to claiming the prize or

other equivalent benefit is subject to the consumer

paying money or incurring a cost.

14

15

25. Forcing the sale

Creating the impression that the consumer cannot leave the

premises until a contract is formed.

26. Overstaying your welcome

Conducting personal visits to the consumer’s home and

ignoring the consumer’s request to leave or not to return,

except in circumstances and to the extent justified, under

national law, to enforce a contractual obligation.

16

Sales and After-Sales Service

A door to door salesman visits a consumer to sell her

some cleaning products. She tells him she is not interested

and asks him to leave. He is determined to try and get her

to change her mind and continues his sales pitch on her

doorstep. This would breach the regulations.

27. Pestering the consumer

Making persistent and unwanted solicitations by telephone,

fax, e-mail or other remote media except in circumstances

and to the extent justified under national law to enforce

a contractual obligation.

28. Using guilt to make sales

Explicitly informing a consumer that if he or she does not

buy the product or service, the trader’s job or livelihood will

be in jeopardy.

29. Asking for payment when they didn’t ask

for the product

Demanding immediate or deferred payment for, or the

return or safekeeping of products supplied by the trader,

but not solicited by the consumer except where the product

is a substitute supplied in accordance with regulation 19(7)

of the Consumer Protection (distance selling) Regulations

2000 (this is known as inertia selling).

17

30. Talking the same language

Undertaking to provide after-sales service to consumers

with whom the trader has communicated prior to a

transaction in a language which is not an official language

of the European Member State where the trader is located,

and then making such service available only in another

language without clearly disclosing this to the consumer

before the consumer is committed to the transaction.

31. Misleading after-sales information

Creating the false impression that after-sales service in

relation to a product is available in a European Member

State other than the one in which the product is sold.

18

A trader based in the UK agrees to provide after sales

service to a consumer he or she has been communicating

with in German. The trader then provides after sales

services only in English, without warning the consumer

pre-contract that that would be the case. This would breach

the regulations.

19

The Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory

Reform (BERR) was created on the 28th June 2007, bringing

together many functions of the former Department of Trade

and Industry (DTI) with the Better Regulation Executive. BERR

works with business, employees and consumers to help ensure

business success in an increasingly competitive world.

Providing consumers with better protection from rogue practices

and disreputable traders and firms are central to these aims.

Whether shopping on the high street or online, consumers

have a right to be sold to fairly and honestly. The Consumer

Protection Regulations will make life a lot tougher for the rogues,

while creating a level, competitive playing field where honest

business can thrive and prosper in the global marketplace.

For further information on BERR, visit www.berr.gov.uk

The Office of Fair Trading is the independent agency that acts

as the UK’s consumer and competition authority. It works to

change the behaviour of consumers, business and government

to make markets work better, this is achieved through influence

and leadership as well as active enforcement.

The role of BERR

The role of OFT

20

2117

1282

Where can I go for advice?

For practical business advice and to find out more about these

regulations, please visit one of the following websites:

Business Link | unfairtrading for England

Business Link | unfairtrading for Scotland

Business Link | unfairtrading

(Scottish Highlands & Islands)

Flexible Support for Business for Wales

Business Link | unfairtrading for Northern Ireland

You can also contact your local authority’s trading standards

service for further advice on the regulations.

Printed in the UK on recycled paper containing a minimum of 75% post

consumer waste. Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform.

BERR helps ensure business success in an increasingly competitive world. We are the voice for business across Government. First published March 2008. Crown Copyright. URN 08/635.

Published in association with the Office of Fair Trading (OFT979)

[trevor33]

Thanks for that IIIUMINATI (where did that name come from?)

I will copy that for future reference (if thats OK) along with all my other documents. I have quite an extensive library now.

Regards Trevor33

[NitrousOxide]

Thanks for that IIIUMINATI (where did that name come from?)

The Enlightened ones. You had to ask, hope you like lizard aliens as our leaders.

[trevor33]

The Enlightened ones. You had to ask, hope you like lizard aliens as our leaders.

Ummmm....still none the wiser.

[emmaf01]

The original Illuminati was started in Bavaria on 1st May 1776 by Adam Weishaupt, a young professor at the University of Ingoldstat, it's aim being "illumination, enlightening the understanding by the sun if reason, which will dispel the clouds of superstition and of prejudice."

 

I imagine the lizards came later.

[trevor33]

OK, now I am enlightened.

[emmaf01]

Sorry, Fortean Times- last months issue was on the origins of the Illuminati.

 

And hardly a lizard in sight.

 

Next month is time slips or temporal anomalies... like when you send a DCA a CCA request and they say they never got it and then it turns up when you can prove they signed for it and cashed the postal order... I think...

[babybear39]

 

Next month is time slips or temporal anomalies... like when you send a DCA a CCA request and they say they never got it and then it turns up when you can prove they signed for it and cashed the postal order... I think...

 

PMSL

[The GodMother]

Sorry, Fortean Times- last months issue was on the origins of the Illuminati.

 

And hardly a lizard in sight.

 

Next month is time slips or temporal anomalies... like when you send a DCA a CCA request and they say they never got it and then it turns up when you can prove they signed for it and cashed the postal order... I think...

 

no thats just them being wrong as usual.

[Help48xxx]

Eh up DMD,

 

I am just embarking upon my battle with Robinson Way. This thread is so inspirational. I will endeavour to give them as much grief as they deserve. Thanks to your constant updates and spirited responses to their letters etc, I am now ready for battle. Let it commence!

 

Cheers...Vimto needed methinks!

 

xx

[IIIUMINATI]

iiiuminati

ENDGAME- ALEX JONES - Blueprint for Global Enslavement - 139 min - Oct 25, 2007

Infowars.com

[emmaf01]

Sorry, I was just stating who the Illuminati really were historically, not the random conspiracy theories.

[iamintrouble]

I HAVEN;T had this much luck with ROBINSON way! I feel like i have cca'd them loads and they have just ignored it and carried on. maybe it is something to do with my debt being an overdraft.

[A+]

HA HA HA, this thread is the funniest yet!!! I hope to have some time free soon, and just may have a bit of part time fun too, just be interested to know the real conversations and emails which get sent round. Boy i would love to have it on tape or email of my boss telling me to "pretend we have a CCA or just lie to them and tell them its in the post" or similar, and then send that to the OFT :D

Great thread!

P.S. My response was in reference to first page of thread, funny as hell!

P.P.S. Robinson Way are the same for me, keep denying receiving it. So long as they deny, the debt remains in dispute as far as i am concerned, so they can either go away, or acknowledge receipt!

Edited October 4, 2008 by aaaaaaaaaaaaa
Didn't realise i was on PAGE 1!

[diskmandave]

Hi Dave,

 

I don`t mean to sound dim here, but I`ve just noticed your letter in Post 896 has the address on for Greater Manchester Police.

 

Did you put that on, or is it actually a letter supplied by the Police?

 

 

 

N.P

 

I put it on, but then after sending to RW decided not to send a copy to the Police!

Edited February 21, 2009 by diskmandave
Typo!

[The GodMother]

lol dave how naughty of u

[flintstones1960]

just spent a very happy morning reading through all the posts & will now have to ask the district nurse to come back this afternoon as I've split my stiches (again).

 

Loads of useful info, much better than watching all those silly shows.

 

Will love to go for a vimto or three DM when I get back to work as I'm not too far from you in Staly-vegas.

[diskmandave]

Wow! How time flies!!

 

Over six months now and the "cycle" of letters haven't

re-started!

 

Think we might have this one licked folks!!

 

Never did get my day in Court did I !

[Goldlady]

Now that is tempting fate.