Statements or SAR?

[harrystottle]

Greetings fellow campaigners for truth, justice and the cash they owe us!!!

 

Just a quick question; I have applied for the DPA disclosure and received a reply stating that I have two options available to me. They state that they "will be happy" to send out statements (for a fee of £5) or a full Subject Access Request for a fee of £10.

 

Now it's not that I don't trust them of course but am I right in suspecting that by giving me the option to save myself five quid they may be setting some fiendishly clever trap, or am I ok to trust in their goodwill and genuine desire to save me spending any more than I should for their services (!) and go for the statements and get the info I need that way.

 

The DPA letter was a cut and paste job from the library, so, presumably, if I apply for the statements and they don't contain any references to manual interventions, I can take it that they have not notified me of any and I am therefore entitled to assume that there were none.

 

Sorry if this has already been addressed elsewhere but I haven't been able to find any other mention of this type of response from NatWest on this forum (maybe this is a new tack?)

 

TIA for any replies

 

All best

 

Harry

[barracad]

If you want the details of manual interventions etc you need to request the SAR. They will then send you notes from the system as well as your statements.

 

If you pay the £5 you are paying for statements only, as the letter suggests.

[harrystottle]

Hi

 

Thanks for the quick response -it's pretty much as I suspected then. But if I was going to be bloody minded about it I could argue (if I requested the statements) that I have asked them in the DPA request to disclose details of any interventions and informed them that if they fail to mention them I will take it to mean that there were none. Still I don't suppose that will help in the long run, just drag it out a bit and that would be in their favour would it not?

[barracad]

It wouldn't help because they are allowed to charge a fee for providing that information and, in effect, you have refused to pay it by only paying for the statements.

[Movingon]

You should clarify for them; your request was a DPA Subject Access Request, INCLUDING a schedule of charges and transactions on your account; or ALTERNATIVELY account statements for the requested period. They should refer to Durant v Financial Services Authority [2003] EWCA Civ 1746, which made it clear that while statements themselves are not covered under the DPA, the list of charges and transactions on the account ARE included.

 

They have NO ESCAPE - they WILL send your information.

[harrystottle]

Right thanks for those responses. I will reply to the effect that I require a full SAR and also make it clear to them that I have requested this information and expect them to supply it as required by law - that ought to jolly them along a bit!

 

Would it also be advisable to remind them that the 'clock is ticking' in that the 40 days runs from the date of my original DPA letter or are these responses from the bank designed to hold things up, and if so, can they succeed in delaying the process by entering into this kind of correspondence?

 

H

[Movingon]

They can TRY... however if you haven't received all your information in an intelligible (i.e. human readable) format by the 40 day deadline, then (a) file a complaint with the information commissioner, and possibly (b) file a county court claim to ORDER them to comply. You are entitled to do (b) but it's entirely up to you if you wish to.

 

In your letter, remind them as I said above, and also remind them that the 40 days began on (date) and expires on (date) and that you REQUIRE compliance in accordance with the Law.

 

p.s. You also have the option at that point of submitting a claim for charges on an ESTIMATED amount on the basis that they refused to send your DPA request in full. The prelim letter would therefore read "...I estimate that you have taken £xxx.xx from my account in charges since xx/xx/xxxx..." instead of ""...I calculate that you have taken £xxx.xx from my account in charges since xx/xx/xxxx..."

[harrystottle]

OK will do! One other question; is it ok to ask them to debit the fee directly from my account as I don't currently have a cheque book (ordered one which hasn't arrived). Or are there other (or better) ways to pay it. I understand that they are not above 'losing' payments or denying that cheques have been sent even after the amount has left one's account (cheeky buggers!)

 

H

[Movingon]

If you already sent your DPA letter without a cheque then you could have them debit the fee from your account. If you sent it with a cheque and they've cashed it, then the 40 days has begun... whatever their excuses over the cheque.

[harrystottle]

I did ask them to debit the fee directly from my account in my original DPA request. I think I will write back with all the points kindly suggested in this thread and also ask them to carry out my original instructions i.e. debit my account by £10 and supply me with the full SAR within the prescribed time limit. Looking forward to seeing their response - will keep you posted!

 

Cheers

 

H

[harrystottle]

Looking at this in the cold light of day, and attempting to write reply to Natwest, I realise that there is a bit of confusion (on my part) regarding this issue of statements vs. SAR.

 

A small question arises; In the DPA request letter which I have copied and sent to Natwest, the opening paragraph reads:

 

"Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my bank account since (DATE). Alternatively a complete set of bank statements for that period will be acceptable."

 

If, in the same letter, I am requesting disclosure of any manual interventions, and yet the statements don't contain this information, why is it recommended within the letter that this alternative be put forward at all?

 

After all, as Barracad rightly said, only paying for the statements and not the full SAR "...wouldn't help because they are allowed to charge a fee for providing...information (i.e. regarding transactions and charges) and, in effect, (one is refusing) to pay it by only paying for the statements" and presumably thereby letting them off the hook?

 

Bit confused here...

 

H

[Movingon]

Manual intervention isn't an alternative to statements, it's additional information that you require to strengthen your case. That's the whole reason you don't just request copy statements; you need the "notes" on your account as well.

 

What you're trying to prove is that the charges are automatic and therefore cost the bank very little to put on; and the notes on MY accounts certainly bear out this statement as there are NO notes at similar times to ANY of my charges.

[harrystottle]

Can I take the liberty of reproducing my reply here just so that I can run it past you and see whether I'm on the right track?

 

==============================================================

 

Ms. Joyce E. Tudor

Retail Regulatory Risk

2nd Floor

Business House B

GOGARBUREN

P.O.Box 1000

EDINBURGH EH12 1HQ

 

 

 

 

17th May 2006 ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxx

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ms. Tudor,

 

Thank you for your letter dated 11th May 2006; having read it, I feel that I may need to clarify the situation for you.

 

In my original letter my request was for a DPA Subject Access Request, INCLUDING a schedule of charges and transactions on my account; or ALTERNATIVELY account statements for the requested period.

 

I feel that I need to draw your attention to the second paragraph of my letter of 10th May 2006, [i.E. DPA LETTER] in which I made it clear that I would require disclosure where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, and disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

Obviously the statements alone would not provide this information, but while statements themselves are not covered under the Data Protection Act, the list of charges and transactions on the account ARE included.

 

Therefore, in order to expedite matters, I again apply for a full Subject Access Request including a schedule of transactions on my account, or alternatively account statements for the requested period in addition to any information you hold regarding the record of charges and transactions on my account for the requested period, as per paragraph 2 of my letter of 10th May 2006.

 

I again request that you deduct the statutory maximum fee of £10 from my account, as I do not have a chequebook.

 

As mentioned before, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them and also reclaiming the £10 DPA disclosure fee.

 

I would remind you that the statutory 40 day period that you have to comply with my request for this information began on 10th May 2006 and expires on 19th June 2006 and that I require compliance in accordance with the Law.

 

 

Yours faithfully, etc

 

==============================================================

 

Any suggestions re improvements/inaccuracies etc gladly welcomed...

[Movingon]

I would say "perfect" but I don't use that word...

[harrystottle]

Ta very much...only took me all morning but it'll be worth it

[harrystottle]

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