A New Way of Looking at Interest- 1st successful Claim - N'wide

[JOSH_IOU]

last word last word na na

[natwesttookmymoney]

I think you're looking for the £100.74 prize thread. You'll find it in the Bear Garden.

Quick - if you edit this one back, you might get away with it and no-one will notice what you've done.

[maxine989]

No problem. I'm just glad he's got his monkey back.

 

Well... if I knew you could claim for monkeys... I would have put a few Bonobos in my particulars from the start. I do like monkeys. I am quite partial to the odd monkey.

 

I am not sure if Westy won a monkey though... I think his claim won him some spondooli. Not everyone is partial to the odd monkey.

[maxine989]

Westy....

 

Quote from Natwesttookmymoney:

 

"1) Debit interest This is the interest the bank has actually charged you. It can be calculated very accurately by using one of Mindzai's or Vampiress' spreadsheets. Alternatively, if you're a serial or continual debtor, enter each item in a spreadsheet, together with the date, and apply the current authorised rate to them, one by one. Not as complex as it sounds - PM me with your e-mail address if you're having any difficulty and I'll send you a partly-worked example.

2) Contractual interest We try to avoid this term now, as it gets so confusing!

Three types of interest fall under this heading:

1. Debit interest - as above;

2. Authorised interest rate

3. Unauthorised interest rate.

 

 

There is a school of thought that believes you can get back charges, plus either 1 or 2, plus 3 in addition. That is being termed 'additional CI' (where CI stands for contractual interest). For the arguments behind that position, I refer you to the two threads I've mentioned above. I don't support them and believe they are extremely complex - but, as I've said, we won't get into those arguments here!

 

3) Recompense for benifit

 

When the bank has taken money from you unlawfully, you clearly haven't got it. And you can't do anything with money you don't have - such as save it or invest it. Recompense for denial of benefit recognises that you haven't been able to use the money. This is what the 8% statutory interest is designed to cover, and that applies regardless of whether a claim is for bank charges, a mis-claimed bill, a garage invoice for shoddy work, etc, etc.

 

As I am wishing to claim back the charges I had when i was overdrawn (the whole time) so which type am I claiming? I would call it the unauthorised rate (2.19 per month or 29.xx per yr compounded) as in the banks T+C's. Sorry, I am just a little out of touch with the terms ppl are using on this board.

 

Personally, I claimed debited interest plus 8%. I think you can, if you're confident, make a case for charges plus unauthorised rate, as an alternative: it covers both loss and recompense for denial of benefit. Its success - so far, unestablished - will depend on how the Court is likely to view the bank's enrichment at your expense".

Can't this be put somewhere in the FAQ's to help clarify the different tyes of interest?

 

You've explained it superbly... it makes perfect sense.

 

[Nick1_S]

oops sorry about the table its a bit late to try and sort that....

 

Ok, bear with me, I am nearly there!

 

1) Debit interest is the interest actually debited from my account. This can be made up of authorised, unauthorised or a combination of both depending on the induvidual circumstance. In my case, the majority would be authorised but there is no way i would want to try and summate the totals of unauthorised and authorised so I am happy to settle for authorised. So, i conclude I want to claim back charges+debit interest at the authorised rate.

 

Now according to Natwest:

 

Overdraft amount

Previous EAR Previous nominal Previous monthly nominal Current EAR variable Current nominal Current monthly nominal Under £1,000 17.69%16.40%1.3618.86%17.40%1.45£1,000-£4,99916.79%15.62%1.3017.95%16.62%1.38£5,000+14.79%13.87%1.1515.93%14.87%1.23

 

 

Typical 18.86% EAR. Rates from 17.95% to 18.86% EAR.

 

2) I spent most of my time swinging between 1K and 2K over the last 6 yrs. Which of the above rates should I use, 18.86 or 17.95?

 

3) The EAR above just seems to be the monthly rate*12. I would have thought the actual anual rate would be the monthly rate compounded. So when I have chosen the rate would I apply it simple or compounded? I am sure the debit interest was compound interest the bank charged me. I have downloaded the spreadsheets but there is one for each type, simple and compound.

 

4) The recompense bit makes perfect sense and I only claim for that at the court right?

 

thanks again for all you help

 

Nick

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, Nick

 

I'd look at my overdraft as it is at the moment and claim the appropriate rate, as at today's date. If the bank disagrees, let them do the calculations - it's called 'an alternative version of events', and they're expected to provide it as part of their defence. (But they usually don't).

 

The EAR isn't simply monthly rate x 12: for example, 12 x 1.36 = 16.32, which is closer to the 'nominal' rate they quote. EAR includes compounding effect.

 

You only claim for the 8% when you file the claim. If you use the unauthorised rate (and aren't, in the model I prefer, then going for any additional interest, including statutory interest at 8%) then include it in your requests for repayment, before filing the claim.

 

Best wishes and adios

[Nick1_S]

I still dont udnerstnad fully the way ppl are calculating their interest.

 

I have used Mindzai's sheet and filled in the front page and the charges section. Based on the daily rate, the compound interest for each charge is calculated up until the present day and then given as a total interest. This is then added to the charges to make the total claimed. This is fine.

 

Why do we need to add the interest charged each month and the date of the interest on the right hand section. This interest for me would be interest on charges and legitimate authorised interest. But I am only claiming for interest on the penalty, I would have thought the left hand section provides this information.

 

Am i missing something?

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[andrew1]

Interesting happening at court over contractual interest claim by Debt Mountain:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/31824-debt_mountain-cabot-4.html

 

 

Originally Posted by debt_mountain View Post

 

Question: Are you saying that the Judge threw out the contractual Interest aspect of your charges DM? Any particular reason?

 

DM's Answer:

"He believes that the 8% the court give makes up for any loss I had. Even if the bank had made a greater profit how could I prove it. He advised it was unlikely to succeed but I could appeal if I wanted to.

 

I don't plan appealing."

[joggernaut]

Hi there

 

I noticed you were wrestling with nationwide.

do you know their policy of refunding people with overdrafts with them?

have you herd of them shutting claimants accts?

 

any advice much appreciated

 

jogger

[maxine989]

Interesting happening at court over contractual interest claim by Debt Mountain:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/31824-debt_mountain-cabot-4.html

 

 

Originally Posted by debt_mountain View Post

 

Question: Are you saying that the Judge threw out the contractual Interest aspect of your charges DM? Any particular reason?

 

DM's Answer:

"He believes that the 8% the court give makes up for any loss I had. Even if the bank had made a greater profit how could I prove it. He advised it was unlikely to succeed but I could appeal if I wanted to.

 

I don't plan appealing."

 

Yes it is an interesting read, however... the whole court story isn't really based on just the contractual aspect, there is a much bigger picture regarding this case.

[andrew1]

Posted this on my own thread but had no replies, anyone help with this?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/75564-sarah-bos-credit-cards.html

 

 

Has anyone claimed contractual Interest on a Credit card & won from BOS. I've had an offer, but they won't pay contractual or so they say, be interested to know if anyone has won one or if this is standard with BOS.

 

Thanks

[doo]

Have filed court action with cap one claiming charges and CCI, have just had an offer of full charges, 8% stat, all purchase interest paid plus court fee. Basically no contractual, any advice anyone - there is a balance on the card outstanding of around £1,200 (does this make a difference) there have paid out at least three claims this week paying full contractual. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/capital-one/59273-new-claim-another-capital.html

[Meadyboy]

Any idea where I can get LloydsTSB overdraft rates for the past 6 years on normal current accounts to calculate the contractual interest on their charges made?

Meady

[Carpetbagger]

HI, couold someone look at my thread and advise? I'm putting in a claim for the charges + contractual rate of interest of 29%, but now I'm really worried and unsure what my argument should be: fidicury duty? Implied reprocoity?

PLease help, times a tickin and I'm not feeling so good about all this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/96553-claiming-contractual-interest-help-2.html

[thomass1949]

Hi Bankfodder. I am afraid I have hijecked your thread but my query is about interest. I have a Laura Ashley card whose interest is 29.9% per annun (2.49% per month) I have had a number of late payment charges over the years. I have recieved from them a list of the dates and amounts from them (a poor response to my DSAR) However, I can work out the amount I want to reclaim. Am I right in calculating the late payment charge + the monthly interest throughout the period I amclaiming for. Would really appreciate your or anyone else help on this as this make quite a difference . Thanks

[phatram]

I have written to Kerns to ask permission to change my POC and I have been ignored, so I'm going to change it anyway. This is to change the "mutuality/reciprocity" part. Does anyone know what I put in its place?

I think its something about "unjust enrichment" but I can't find it anywhere.

[phatram]

I have written to Kerns to ask permission to change my POC and I have been ignored, so I'm going to change it anyway. This is to change the "mutuality/reciprocity" part. Does anyone know what I put in its place?

I think its something about "unjust enrichment" but I can't find it anywhere.

bump

[Mad Nick]

phatram, about a year ago when I was claiming I did quite a lot of research on mutuality/reciprocity, unjust enrichment, fairness & balance (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming-30.html?highlight=fairness+balance#post444092), restitution, common law, Court's rules on awarding interest and so on. It's a minefield, a real minefield. Have you done a search on CAG ? I figured that if I wasn't totally sure of my ground the Bank (Abbey) would literally take it into Court and I would risk ending up with just charges + SI. So I concentrated on claiming exactly the charges (stemming from their "mistake of law" about LDs having to be a genuine pre-estimate) + interest they had levied (stemming from the same "mistake of law") + 8% SI (which the Court can award for being deprived of your money). It ended up just before Court with a telephone haggle over a few days but at the last minute Abbey coughed up. It's just my experience with that one Bank but I got the firm impression that they would have taken anything further or "unusual" into Court. Good luck. Regards, Mad Nick

[MilkTrayMan]

Hello phatram!

 

I believe a Claimant LOST using the Mutuality/Reciprocity approach earlier this year.

 

The MAIN thing is to NOT accept a divorce from your Penalty Charges + the Contractual Interest, so that U are fighting JUST the C.I. bit in Court.

 

The further links within the following Post will give U a Legal Precedent Case to base your wording upon...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1265418.html

 

 

...

[phatram]

I've already won one claim against Co-op using the M/R approach.

This is our 2nd claim against the Co-op.

[pugsley]

subscribing

[BankFodder]

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group