Manufacturers warranties - unfair?

[gordonhall]

On a washing machine I once bought, it came with a 5 year parts warranty. That seemed great until I was told that I HAD to use their engineers, and the labour cost was £90 per hour.

 

Seeing as I had previously used a local chap for repairs on my old washer @ £12 per hour, I didn't really see that as good value.

 

So what is the position? Can the manufacturer charge me that or am I covered anyway under current consumer law?

 

I'm assuming the manufacturer wouldn't send out any parts to cover faulty ones until "they" had decided what the fault was.

[jonni2bad]

bump

[gordonhall]

am I supposed to understand that "bump"?

[jonni2bad]

A 'bump' is an attempt to bring your thread back to the top of the list, in order to get more viewings and possibly the answer you need.

 

To be used sparingly....

 

[mutzi]

It's the seller not the manufacturer thats responisible (unless they are the same) under the sales of goods act. They would be your first point of contact if an item proved faulty and although they may try to push you into repairs via the guarentee if its not to your advantage then remind them of your rights. The manufacturers guarentee gives you additional options but does not reduce the sellers obligations. Sounds like they are just trying to make additional profit out of consumer ignorance :-|

[Guest Lueeze]

I cannot answer 100% but I know with cars, you have to get the warranty work done at an approved dealer (which is more expensive) otherwise it invalidates it.its a rip off but im not sure what you can do, as If something hapened you wouldnt be able to claim on warranty again i think...

 

Lou x

[gordonhall]

thanks for advice and good to have more knowledge of all these matters!

[sean5302]

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[Movingon]

Once again; a warranty is NOT a guarantee, it's merely a statement of willingness to fix certain problems. Of course if you want a repair done under ACME's warranty that they're willing to fix certain problems, THEY have to fix it.

 

A Guarantee is a statement that they don't believe their product will break in a certain time period, and if it does, they will honour that guarantee by repairing/replacing FOC - they usually do this because they know that statistically the product fails only once every and that payouts under the guarantee will not lose them an awful lot of money.

[JonCris]

I cannot answer 100% but I know with cars, you have to get the warranty work done at an approved dealer (which is more expensive) otherwise it invalidates it.its a rip off but im not sure what you can do, as If something hapened you wouldnt be able to claim on warranty again i think...

 

Lou x

 

Having your car serviced at another garage franchised or not does NOT invalidate your warranty. In fact under the rules of their own body the SMMT they are expressly forbidden from refusing a to honour a warranty under such circumstances.

 

However if the repairing garage used none manufacture parts which failed then you would a claim against that repairer.

 

Also some Franchise dealers try & claim that if you fit ANY none manufacture part you invalidate your whole warranty.

 

In other words they will try & claim that if you fit any none standard parts such as brake pads & your head gasket fails you can no longer claim on your warranty. Absolute & utter rubbish. The warranty is STILL valid

[sean5302]

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[JonCris]

Thank you JonCris.

The SMMT is the society which represents the car makers and traders. Its decisions are by no means binding upon any manufacturer or retailer, but it aims to portray us in a fair light.

If you had a car recovered to the average franchised dealer with, say, a snapped cambelt, the resultant repairs would cost between £1000 and £3000. On some engines, you may just bend the odd valve. That is the exception nowadays, but even then, you're looking at £400.

If you had had the cambelt changed by a non-franchised dealer, are you seriously saying that the manufacturer or their appointed retail franchisee would entertain your warranty claim?

In theory, maybe. In reality, not a chance. None whatsoever. How could we verify that the work had been done to a satisfactory standard. Indeed, if it had been, why has the new belt snapped?

 

NO *I stated any new part fitted by a none franchise garage is the responsibilty of that garage & its upto that garage to seek a warranty replacement from their supplier & its irrelevant who made the part.

 

What I was also saying is that just because there is another failure involving a different part does not give the Franchise dealer the right to claim that the whole of the warranty on the rest of the vehicle is now invalidated.

 

In other words a manufacture cannot invalidate a warranty if you have your car serviced elsewhere. Nor can he if you have it repaired elsewhere (*subject to the above)

 

The SMMT guidance may not be binding but should a dealer not comply then a court will almost certainly find in favour of the owner.

 

Bin there done that

[sean5302]

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[JonCris]

Agreed.

I think we both said much the same, really.

I have every sympathy for the uninformed, motoring public.

Like you, I've got the "T" shirt and have heard pretty much every excuse.

No, your antifreeze is blue, not red like ours, so the back axle dropping off isn't covered.

Funnily enough, the rogues wouldn't try it on with you or me.

Unfortunately, we have sons, daughters, mothers, fathers.....

 

I've heard much more laughable excuses than that. I'm involved with a Freelander Action Group & some of the excuses used for repudiating liability beggar belief. Heres one "Sorry you have invalidate your warranty cos you loaned it to your dad".Duh! Or how about. "We confirm that our low p/x offer against another Freelander is based on the fact that there are known engine problems". That one is in WRITING (I have a copy) You really couldn't make some of them up if you had as much as 1 brain cell

[Eduin]

Thank you JonCris.

The SMMT is the society which represents the car makers and traders. Its decisions are by no means binding upon any manufacturer or retailer, but it aims to portray us in a fair light.

If you had a car recovered to the average franchised dealer with, say, a snapped cambelt, the resultant repairs would cost between £1000 and £3000. On some engines, you may just bend the odd valve. That is the exception nowadays, but even then, you're looking at £400.

If you had had the cambelt changed by a non-franchised dealer, are you seriously saying that the manufacturer or their appointed retail franchisee would entertain your warranty claim?

In theory, maybe. In reality, not a chance. None whatsoever. How could we verify that the work had been done to a satisfactory standard. Indeed, if it had been, why has the new belt snapped?

 

The rest of what you wrote is fine. I agree that brake pads and head gaskets are unrelated. My own example concerned tyres and warranty.

 

The OFT has ruled in the issues of Motor Trade and Warranties. All ties between using authorised repairers and the warranties on motor vehicles are severed.

 

The franchise would have to prove that negligence was present on the part of the repairer and as I understand the OFT ruling, standard motor trade body membership for the appropriate work would suffice.

 

Regards,

Eduin

[sean5302]

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[JonCris]

No. Please, let's be clear about this. I'm not writing about routine servicing. If you use the correct parts, I accept that the work can be done by any reputable organisation. What I'm describing is what would happen for specific service work, such as cambelt change or similar.

 

You turn up to one of our franchised dealers and request work be done under warranty, following such work done outside our dealer network.

 

You will be shown every courtesy.

 

Every sympathy

 

And then the door.

 

The franchise would have no need to prove anything. The claim would be against the supplying dealer or, more likely, against the garage who carried out the work.

 

A cambelt can snap for varied reasons. Age, oil leaks, worn pulleys and guide rollers, seized water pumps, and POOR FITTING. The last item would be the reason we'd exclude any goodwill. We vouch for our own franchisees, but not for every garage you might go to.

 

Exactly the same as if you bought the parts yourself and fitted them. You could be a highly experienced, manufacturer trained fitter. You'd still get no joy if your belt snapped and the work wasn't done by us.

 

I thought the same but it appears we are wrong. If the work is carried out by a competent engineer then you would have to prove negligence to refuse a warranty repair on that same failed part.

 

I suspect any part used by the "other" garage would have to be a genuine part otherwise it does place the franchise garage in a very unfair position

[sean5302]

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[JonCris]

This is where you and I need to dispel a few of people's myths.

If we shop at Tesco's we see Tesco logos and signs, the staff wear Tesco overalls and the site is owned by....Tesco. It is a wholly-owned operating division of Tesco UK.

 

If we shop at the Honda dealer down the road we see Honda logos and signs, the staff wear Honda overalls and the site is owned by.....the dealer. He has paid Honda UK for the franchise to retail their cars.

 

Substitute "Honda" for BMW, Mercedes, VW or whichever brand you like.

 

Big difference.

 

When someone buys a car from a dealer, both parties have a contract. If they go somewhere else and get a major part serviced (badly) and that part breaks, what has a third party dealer to do with this transaction? Absolutely nothing.

They can say the part was badged "genuine VW" or whatever. That still doesn't give them a claim against the local VW retailer. He is no more an operating site of VW than the Honda man is.

 

Both have just paid for the franchise to sell the respective cars.

 

I've seen very many such warranty claims.

As you will know, our group comprises:

VW, Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti, Skoda,Seat and several others. We operate the same policy throughout the group. I'm sure that Ford operates similarly with Volvo, Land Rover,Ford, Mazda etc ie all its brands in the UK.

 

I understand that but isn't it the EU's plan to do away with the franchised dealer & for dealers to become like Tescos by acting as retailers who can stock any make of vehicle they wish. Obviously some alternarive to the stock loan will have to be found such as extending the non-payment period until sold & even supplying on sale or return

[sean5302]

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[JonCris]

Bingo JonCris.

 

Can you imagine someone taking their wrecked car back to Carcraft or Ford's of Winsford, or the Cannock car supermarket. They have no repair workshops, for a start, and hold no franchises for any marque. They are pure retailers. Unlike the franchised dealers who try and hoodwink folks into believing they are operating sites of the manufacturers.

 

And THAT is what most people think the retail car network is, already.

 

I was in a dealer's premises some weeks ago. A receptionist answered the phone "Hello, Mercedes-Benz, Leeds".

 

I asked her why she had said that, since the dealership is owned by Derwent Vehicles, a Pendragon Group company.

 

"That's what Derwent have told us to say", she said.

 

And there lies the confusion. If our imaginary cambelt was a genuine BMW one, let's say, and it failed early, having been fitted by a non-franchised dealer, then the punter would be able to nip to the local franchisee, who would represent the BMW corporation.

 

When that happens (if), then consumers will get what they already think they're entitled to. People are currently heartbroken when they find they are liable for what they thought we were.

 

Doesn't half sharpen their minds about the need for proper servicing, in future. You'd never go to a backstreet garage to get a cambelt changed, £50 cheaper, if you knew you'd be liable for £2,000 damage if he messes up, as you'll never get the money from him, and we won't entertain you.

 

I agree you wont entertain the owner who goes to a back street garage if that garage doesn't reach a competent standard but the OFT seem now to be saying whatever & wherever you bought or serviced your car you will be able to expect any retail garage to honour any failure caused by a faulty part.

 

If the failure is a result of a faulty repair by the "other" garage then "your" garage can refuse to repair FOC as the negligence has been proven & the owner must return to the original repairing garage.

 

Competent Garage: It appears that the measure of what is a "competent" garage will be the trade body the garage is a member of. This will have to be excepted as a clear sign that the "other" garage IS competent

 

In other words if I purchase a Fuji camera from say Dixons or some other retail outlet & it becomes faulty I will be able to take it to a different outlet & fully expect them to honour the warranty.

 

Should make for a few interesting months in the time ahead as the more well informed engage in a battle with their suppliers

[Eduin]

 

Yes but you can make any analogy you want. Where your argument falls down is that the Office of Fair Trading have ruled on this issue and it is counter to your argument. The link between franchise dealers and warranties is *severed*.

 

Regards,

Eduin

[sean5302]

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[JHGlover]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/210085-expired-warrant-currys-tv.html

[gordonhall]

This topic was closed on 10 March 2019.

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