Leaving the Country - Running Away from Debts

[TryingMyBest]

I've been reading this with some interest.

 

I'm new, but have been through the posts on here & USA boards until I'm cross eyed.

 

My situation :

 

I'm now in the US, and have been here for just over 5 years.

 

Managed to rack up a lot of debt before I left the UK. Kept payments up for a few months, but due to events I'll not go into, stopped paying them after a few months. Nothing shows up on my US credit report, but I haven't been able to get a copy of my UK credit report yet.

 

Ethics and morals aside [i've almost come to tems with this with all the interest, charges etc I've paid].

 

US have similar concepts to the UK. There's a Debt validation process, but this must be done within 30 days from initial contact. Also- from what I've found so far, there's not the same process to reclaim penalties / charges etc. What can be done in the US is if a DCA breaches the policy [e.g. continues to attempt collection attempts without properly validating the debt] there's a very quick & easy small claim for $1000.

 

I had a number of cc's and also a loan. They fall into 4 categories :

 

A/ Some cc's have never found / contacted me.

 

B/ One cc has sold the debt to a US collection agency. Capquest had it at one point - now sold to US DCA with even worse rep. who have contacetd me for the 1st time this week.

 

C/ My loan is with a US attorney, who says they're acting on behalf of the original bank [HSBC]. have been making small monthly payments for the last 2 years or so.

 

D/ One cc is with a UK collection agency - Lowell - which I've read a lot about on this board. have been making small monthly payments for the lsat year or so.

 

A lot of questions [any which can be answered greatly appreciated] :

 

1/ Now that I live in the U, which law would I fall under? The UK as that's where the debt is? Or the US as that's where I live? What if the debt has now been sold to a US DCA?

 

2/ The ones who have not contacted me I'm thinking I should leave alone.

 

3/ Re my bank loan and cc with Lowell - should I send a CCA request? SAR request?

 

4/ The 6 years statute bar - will this be in effect.....or can it be extended as I've not been in the UK?

 

5/ How likely is Lowell to sue? They were extremeley rude on the phone and made many threats. They've been automatically taking money from my US account. I've never agreed anything in writing.

 

6/ To collect in the US, will then 1st have to get a UK judgement, then transfer this to the US as evidence of a debt? OR - does it need to be transferred to a US DCA?

 

7/ In the US if you make even a small partial payment, the restarts the statute of limitations. It also means that you've lost the right to request validation of the debt. By making even 1 payment you're basically saying Yes its mine and I agree with the amount [A lot of the time people panic into making a payment.] Is this the same in the UK?

 

8/ Anyone know a good lawyer or someone else who would know the implications and advise the best solution for this situation?

 

9/ I have lots more questions.....but don't want to go too over the top on my 1st post.

 

Any help appreciated. Let me know if you'd like a link to the US board. The board is very similar in structure.

 

Thanks!

[BaldyBaldwin]

if your debts originate from the UK, would it be worth your while considering filing for bankruptcy in the UK?

[s1h]

So from what tryingmybest says, running away doesnt work.

[senanbyrne]

The reason that he has been located is because he made payments to his old debts when in the USA. This is basically telling them where you are. Something he should never have done.

[s1h]

I disagree with you senanbyrne.

 

He should have made payments it is his debt he borrowed the money and I think he should pay it back.

[senanbyrne]

Yes he should pay it back. My point is only that I am not suprised people leave the country and don't make any contact. Because the system is so weak and they never find you.

 

However, in his case, he has made the initial contact and therefore his contact details obviously get thrown straight onto the systems for creditors to use.

[senanbyrne]

P.S. TryingMyBest, because your answers are difficult to answer and laws differ from state to state, I recommend you use the following website for FREE LEGAL ADVICE on almost anything.

 

 

link removed , commercial site

[TryingMyBest]

Thanks for the advice and the web link. I've been gone for a few days, but will post an update when I've got some legal advice.

 

From what I understand now [may be wrong], it is very difficult and unlikely that the bank / cc would get a judgement in the UK. They also are unlikley and possibly unable to take this to a UK court. They would need a US based DCA to do this. They can assign or sell the debt. If they sell it, the US DCA may struggle to comply with rigid USA DV [Debt Validation] procedures and may have no case. Maybe they could though, there's a lot of factors to consider....such as if its a large-ish debt, which mine is, they will probably be more diligent with the paper trail. If they assign it, they have a better chance.

 

Still not sure of the exact application of the laws, especially the SOL [stature of Limitation]......in the UK this appears to be 6 years. In US it varies from state to state, but mine is 4 years. Around this there's also soom loopholes to stop the clock ticking. Plus I'm not sure whether a local SOL applies to a foreign debt.

 

Lots of research to do. I'll keep you posted if you're interested.

 

Regarding a cc that has been transferred from UK DCA to US DCA.....to another DCA. Chances are they will not be able to properly validate the debt, which requires very conclusive paperwork. Plus it will be outside the SOL if that applies.

One important consideration is that if you make even partial payment, the SOL [a lot argue] can restart.

[s1h]

Simple solution just pay your debts.

[senanbyrne]

Shastie, unfortunately paying off debts is not a 'simple solution' for many people.

[s1h]

why borrow then?

[BaldyBaldwin]

you sound like a bank manager

[JonCris]

Tryingmybest...be warned if you apply for your UK credit report using your US address it will become available to your UK creditors

[senanbyrne]

Shastie, people often borrow because they have to, more often than not because they need to pay off other debt that is sometimes a result of unfair charges.

 

The point is that the system is so muddled up that it is no wonder people use it to their advantage.

 

I don't agree that the solution is as simple as 'just pay back your debts'.

 

Run away if you like as long as the law is as it is. If it changes and you could go to prison for a bank debt, than don't run obviously.

[brecken]

why borrow then?

 

 

Im sorry but I find that remark offensive, especially on this forum, 90% of people are in debt through no fault of their own, when my hubby and I first borrowed money we could pay it back comfortably until I took very ill then things went on a downward spiral, out of our control you might say.

Thankfully we have crawled our way back, but during those BAD times if we had been given the option to run away from it all I think we would have taken it.

 

Brecken.

[Guest NATTIE]

sorry the initial qustion about running away from debts, I read an article on the Times online which stated that a debt can be enforceable within another EU country although there are specific rules in place. I will get the link shortly

[empowered]

Breckon - I totally agree with you. Husband had company that was accumulating bad debts so we kept remortgaging to keep company afloat, as it was our only source of income, and the bank from our door. Looked at the route of going bankrupt but husband said his pride and reputation was at stake and was determined to repay all his debts, he wouldn't even consider IVA. He has now sold company and repaid debts, but at a tremendous cost to our future - huge, massive interest only mortgage on the house which means we will never own it now - it was going to be our pension because we couldn't even afford to continue with pension payments. Many a time we thought of upping and leaving, but our policy was, that we had borrowed money, even if it was from banks and suppliers, and it had to be repaid.

 

(edit ) poster will be PM'd for an explanaton

 

. Rant and sob story over!

Debs

[JonCris]

Hi empower & welcome

 

Yours is such a familiar story even down to the money lenders cynical remarks..........now go get 'em

[empowered]

Thanks for that JonCris - that's going to be the fun bit!

[brecken]

Breckon - I totally agree with you. Husband had company that was accumulating bad debts so we kept remortgaging to keep company afloat, as it was our only source of income, and the bank from our door. Looked at the route of going bankrupt but husband said his pride and reputation was at stake and was determined to repay all his debts, he wouldn't even consider IVA. He has now sold company and repaid debts, but at a tremendous cost to our future - huge, massive interest only mortgage on the house which means we will never own it now - it was going to be our pension because we couldn't even afford to continue with pension payments. Many a time we thought of upping and leaving, but our policy was, that we had borrowed money, even if it was from banks and suppliers, and it had to be repaid.

 

(edit ) poster will be PM'd for an explanaton

 

Rant and sob story over!

Debs

 

I hate Lloyds, it was those twerps that helped us get into that downward spiral I was talking about.

But I got my own back last year by claiming back all my charges.

Best of luck to you Debs.

 

Brecken xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[empowered]

Thank you Brecken! I shall be lurking in the Lloyds forum for a verrrrrry long time as we have four accounts to claim back on plus cards and PPI on numerous loans - I shall be 100 before I'm finished! Debs x

[binkhus]

what is classed as a proirty debt? would repayment of working family tax credits (they are crap and a three year old could do their sums better than them) be classed as this and would you get traced if you went to another eu country?

[senanbyrne]

what is classed as a proirty debt? would repayment of working family tax credits (they are crap and a three year old could do their sums better than them) be classed as this and would you get traced if you went to another eu country?

 

 

Priority debts are:

 

• mortgage arrears - the mortgage lender may take court action for possession of your home
  
• rent arrears - the landlord may evict you if you have rent arrears
  
• income tax and VAT - you can be made bankrupt for non-payment of fines
  
• fines, such as court fines. If these are not paid, the court can use sheriff officers to repossess your goods
  
• fuel debts - if these are not paid you may have your fuel supply disconnected
  
• loans are priority debts if they are secured against your home
  
• hire purchase will be a priority debt if it is for an essential item for example, if you have bought a car on HP and you need the car to get to work.

 

Examples of non-priority debts are:

 

• credit card and store card arrears
  
• catalogue arrears
  
• bank overdrafts and unsecured loans
  
• benefits overpayments
  
• hire purchase is a non-priority debt where it is for goods which are not essential to you, for example, a television bought on HP
  
• money borrowed from family or friends.

The consequences of not paying non-priority debt are less severe than for priority debt. However, if you make no payments and do not explain why, creditors are likely to take you to court. This can lead to further action against you.

 

 

 

The creditors are very unlikely to chase you up if you leave the country if it is a non priority debt. They never bother to even try.

 

Did you know that the most action that can be taken against you for not paying a utility bill such as gas is the supplier switching it off?

[TheKernel]

So it seems that some people wouldn't blame a poor guy for taking advantage of an extremely weak system.

 

Neither would I. The government are hardly interested in non priortiy debt and the relationships between customers and their banks. The banks have been unlawfully charging you for years. A little note to your bank saying you are moving address and will be in touch someday will do the trick.

 

The creditors are very unlikely to chase you up if you leave the country if it is a non priority debt. They never bother to even try.

 

I find this so hard to believe..... it didn't even cross my mind until yesterday, and I am now in a moral quandary!

 

Do these banks really have THAT many people evading debt that they simply cannot cope with the volume of people they need to trace, or do they make enough profit that they can't be bothered?