PriorityOne v A&L **GAME OVER **

[PriorityOne]

Please can you shed some light on the legalities surrounding a non-trading DCA, registered as dormant, when they are a seperate in-house company and have been collecting payments ?

 

Is it true that a company can be non-trading in the sense that it isn't doing business, but is still allowed to have other accounting transactions going through its books, which means that it is not dormant in a legal sense ? Or, would it stand that a dormant company must not have any accounting transactions except specific allowable transactions that can be disregarded. If so, what is allowed ?

 

Would an in-house collection agency be registered correctly at Companies House as non-trading because they are not actually trading in anything (doing business), just collecting debt on behalf of the original creditor ?

 

Also if the debt has not been assigned (sold) to the in-house DCA, then do they have any obligation to comply with the s77/78 requests of a CCA ?... even though they have already been collecting on an account for some time ?

 

Is it true that the in-house DCA would need a seperate registration with the ICO as Data Controllers or, since they are in-house, would they not need a seperate registration for Data Protection Act purposes ?

 

I am under the impression that it may be a different scenario from court action re. bank charges, where there is much less confusion....

 

Apologies for all the q. on a Saturday morning, but I need to send a letter off on Monday to the original creditor of a loan that has been pursued by an in-house DCA for the last 4 years. I really need to get my facts right so that I don't shoot myself in the foot !

 

Thank you for your time....

[JonCris]

If they are accepting payments, which will include a measure of profit for them, they are NOT dormant & to claim such is a criminal offence.

 

Report them to Companies House. They take a very dim view of such behaviour.

 

Have they at any time submitted accounts & when were they formed?

 

It is my understanding that if they are a separate legal entity, even if wholy owned, processing personal data they would need separate registration.

 

However any CCL (Consumer Credit Licence) which they MUST have, could just list the trading names provided a senior officer common to ALL the companies is named in the application.

 

These firms really have to get used to the idea that consumers are now getting tooled up to fight back & WILL check THEM out.......glass houses comes to mind

[PriorityOne]

On the Companies House website, it shows that they filed dormant company accounts up until 2005... yet my bank statements clearly show payments being processed by that company. I need to be certain I haven't got this wrong though...

 

They are Global Debt Management Services Limited and now reside in the same building as A & L Finance Ltd (original creditor) in Carlton Park, Narborough. They were somewhere else in Leicester around 2003.... previous correspondence from them shows a different address. I am unsure exactly when they changed premises.... and not sure if it makes any difference to anything anyway.

 

My payments stopped being processed by them back in 2005... and reverted back to being processed by A & L Finance Limited, yet I have 'phoned GDM to make those payments since around 2002.. when they were at a different address. I was never informed of a change of address to Narborough and only found out on here. The only number for Global is an 0870 number.

 

Have no idea why A & L Finance resumed the processing of these payments, but suspect something is not quite right there because there is no mention whatsoever of Global on any of my (incomplete) S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) info. All payments from 1999 are shown as going to A & L Finance Limited.

 

[humbleman]

Looks like they are providing a service, for which they need a telephone system, people and some computer hardware to keep track of things, they therefore need monies to pay for all this and these has to be recorded and accounted for. If you have information that they have been collecting monies in their own right, I would report them to the Revenue. You could maybe provide them demands for monies they have sent you, and payments you have made into their account. I see them in the same way as Insurance brokers or travel agents.

[PriorityOne]

Thanks Humbleman,

 

A & L Finance Ltd are threatening to go for a charge on my home, despite making regular payments to them and Global since the loan was taken out in 1999. The SAR info. came back yesterday, but there is hardly anything there.... and no mention of Global at all.

 

I need to send a letter on Monday to remind A & L Finance of their obligations under the SAR, remind them that the account is still in dispute, but I also want to get them off my back re. a property charge. If I can indicate that I may have evidence re. the trading activities of Global over the past few years, they may just drop everything.

 

I am just sick of being bullied by companies who think they have more power than me.

 

I need to log off here now, but will be on later.

 

All advice gratefully received....

[JonCris]

If you have not already done it send a CCA putting the debt in dispute. That should stop them from seeking a charging order.

 

Have they recognised the payments you made to Global...... Is it possible that your payments never reached the A&L accounts?

 

Also it could always be possible their not mentioning Global could be because they where trading fraudulently such as whilst dormant........interesting no!

[Guest Zooman]

you are misunderstanding the use of dormant companies, these companies will be 100% owned by the bank in this case, they will have no costs and only using the name to confuse and make you think this has been escalated to a outside firm, if it was any different the audit would pick it up, banks do not try to conceal things from the auditors as it really would be a step to far. there is nothing wrong with his and it one of the many reasons one would hold a dormant company.

[PriorityOne]

If you have not already done it send a CCA putting the debt in dispute. That should stop them from seeking a charging order.

 

Have they recognised the payments you made to Global...... Is it possible that your payments never reached the A&L accounts?

 

Also it could always be possible their not mentioning Global could be because they where trading fraudulently such as whilst dormant........interesting no!

 

I have already CCA'd Global... and they defaulted, but cashed the cheque. I also CCA'd A & L... and they also defaulted, but returned the cheque to me.... I assumed this was becasue the CCA would be in with the SAR info. but there was nothing. There has been no CCA from anyone, but for now... I am only reminding A & L Finance that the account is in dispute because of their non-compliance with the SAR.

 

Payments to Global definately reached the A & L Loan account. They went through Global (debit card payments and cheques made out to Global) for around 2/3 years, but there is no reference of them going through Global first on my loan account statement. So to me, it does sound like Global were trading during this period of time...

 

Also, as they are a seperate limited company from A & L Finance Limited, I have read that they would need a separate license/registration with the ICO because licenses cannot be transferred/shared between companies.

 

As for the Data Protection Act, 1988.... at no time was I asked for my permission for them to process my data in the way that they have.

 

I find it hard to believe that all of these activities have been lawful ?!

[PriorityOne]

I have been advised of the following :

 

Companies House only registers Ltd companies.

 

GDM can be a dormant/non-trading Ltd company at Companies House, but the name GDM without the Ltd can be used as a trading name of A & L.

 

If the letters from GDM state Ltd after the name and they are down as dormant/non-trading, then they are in trouble. However, if there is no Ltd then they are 'trading as' which is fine.

 

They are Global Debt Management Services Limited.

 

Any comments re. the above ?

[humbleman]

I have been advised of the following :

 

Companies House only registers Ltd companies.

 

GDM can be a dormant/non-trading Ltd company at Companies House, but the name GDM without the Ltd can be used as a trading name of A & L.

 

If the letters from GDM state Ltd after the name and they are down as dormant/non-trading, then they are in trouble. However, if there is no Ltd then they are 'trading as' which is fine.

 

They are Global Debt Management Services Limited.

 

Any comments re. the above ?

 

You are right.

 

all ltd comapnies are construed as a seperate legal entity in their own rights, whether 1%, 2% or wholly owned by another ltd comapny, they need to account for their activities, no 2 ways.

[PriorityOne]

You are right.

 

all ltd comapnies are construed as a seperate legal entity in their own rights, whether 1%, 2% or wholly owned by another ltd comapny, they need to account for their activities, no 2 ways.

 

FANTASTIC !!! I can now send my letter as planned... and give the barstewards a bit of the CAG treatment !

 

[Guest Zooman]

I have no need to argue I'm not the one sending a letter, I have a deep understanding of both insolvency and company law, send and do as you wish, but you are simply wasting your time.

[PriorityOne]

Why am I wasting my time ? Are you saying that separate limited companies are not required to declare their trading status... and can share a license with the Information Commissioners Office with another limited company ?

 

I am not intending to take them to court... just want them off my case.

[Guest Zooman]

yes, they can to all of the above.

and can share a license with the Information Commissioners Office with another limited company ?

One license for group

 

Are you saying that separate limited companies are not required to declare their trading status

 

No I am not saying this they have declared, it is dormant. A company is Dormant if it does not trade. In some cases, the company may appear to be doing business, but this is simply as part of a group or acting on behalf of a Holding Company. A dormant company may not trade on its own account. Sending letters is allowed, the money is then collected by it holding company and as such has not traded, all the costs can be met by it holding company directly.

[PriorityOne]

I am totally confused... have received too much conflicting advice.

 

Global have cashed cheques made out to them by name. Does that not count as trading either ?

[Guest Zooman]

To be honest, people have jumped on this as far as they see dormant means dormant, and black is black, and they want to feel empowered over the debt collection agencies that have brought them worry. But this is a red herring.

 

Company law is not simple and when people start to think of it as a simple law, they start to make statements like above

 

all ltd companies are construed as a separate legal entity in their own rights, whether 1%, 2% or wholly owned by another ltd company, they need to account for their activities, no 2 ways.

this is right, but what the poster failed to account for by filling as dormant they have accounted for the companies activities.

[PriorityOne]

and non-trading ?

[Guest Zooman]

there is no such thing as a non trading company, a company is trading or dormant.

[Guest Zooman]

although this said and confusingly 7499 (Non-trading company) can be the "Nature of Business"

 

EDIT: this is not the same as a dormant company and companies trading use this SIC code, only really used when the company does not really trade, not unlike what you are on about as they are selling nothing and buying nothing just collecting money. A common one is when a company is set up to be billed for all the goods in a production chain and then the holding company would do production this why if the purchasing company should go belly up the production company is still safe.

[PriorityOne]

They are down as non-trading.. filing dormant company accounts... Does that mean the same thing, despite processing/receiving payments from me ?

[PriorityOne]

I have read you edited post and hear what you say.. Global are indeed down as 7499 - non trading and filing dormant company accounts. What I cannot get my head round is why their name is showing on my bank statements as the processor of my debit card payments... which then went to A & L Finance.

 

I can't understand why that cannot be seen as trading when their name is on my bank statements. I cannot understand how that is being dormant either.

 

A company tax lawyer seemed very interested in activities like these quite recently.

[Guest Zooman]

I don't see a legal problem, the easy way would be to buy the company report and see if they declared the dormant company is an agent of the holding company. But you most remember banks are very highly audited more then any other sector, this would not get past the auditors. Also dont forget the Payee can be adjusted by the bank receiving the money on any chq.

[PriorityOne]

I don't see a legal problem, the easy way would be to buy the company report and see if they declared the dormant company is an agent of the holding company. But you most remember banks are very highly audited more then any other sector, this would not get past the auditors. Also dont forget the Payee can be adjusted by the bank receiving the money on any chq.

 

They have it all in their favour... one law for them and another for us. They can adjust the payee ? They wouldn't need to adjust the payee if it was a legal way of doing business. I am not picking at what you say Zooman... just frustrated and cross....

[Valdez is Coming]

If it helps at all, l have a disputed debt with A&L.

 

Global Debt Management Services LTD are their in-house debt collection agency.

 

I have a letter dated 25 October 2006 from Global Debt Management service LTD (in big bold blue letters) and signed by 'Mrs Wesson For & on behalf of Global Debt Management Service LTD.

 

They are clearly trading as a limited company. Go get them. Regards.....Bob Valdez

[PriorityOne]

I would love to get 'em Valdez.... but this is turning into such a frustrating battle. It seems like I can't get them through the avenues that I was hoping to use... Zooman has been very clear...