Fox Mulder vs First Direct *** WON! ***

[Fox Mulder]

Anybody see my last post and got an answer, maybe? I did ask nicely, as always!

[Fox Mulder]

FD should have filed a defence with the court over a week ago. I've had nothing through from anyone. Should it be the court that sends me a copy, or the solicitors, DG?

 

Does this mean FD hasn't filed a defence? Or that the court has sat on it for over a week? What's the likely situation? Does anyone know?

 

I'm going to call the court tomorrow morning, but I'm assuming if the defence wasn't filed in time that I just fill in the form and tick box A listing how I want to be paid, then send it into the court and be prepared to fight if FD try to push for more time...?

[Landy]

In my case DG solicitors did file a defence at the last minute, they also failed to submit their question allocation in time, the presiding Judge said they have until today to submit it, I’m on a hot tin roof, if they don’t file I win by default.

Anyway reading from other posts there doesn’t see any logic as to how they conduct their affairs, sorry no help only some insight.

 

Landy

[Fox Mulder]

Landy, thanks for the quick response. Appreciated. When you say DG filed a defence at the last minute, do you mean they filed just short of the 28 days or some time after? And if after, how do they get away with that?

 

And does the court send the defence to you, or DG on behalf of FD?

 

I'm hoping I win by default, which I will if it turns out they've submitted no defence. And I hope the same for you too if it turns out they didn't submit the required papers today! I wish you success!

[Landy]

They filed their defence on the day by fax to the courts, then the court sent a snail mail informing me which took couple of days.

 

The court sent the copy of the defence to me.

 

If the court doesn’t get the QA on time the judge orders they file by XX/XX/XX it was another three working days plus W/E and a bank holiday 6 days in total.

 

Hope this helps

 

Landy

[Fox Mulder]

Landy, thank you. It appears as though... I've won!

 

I'm hesitant because I don't know how all this works. I phoned the court today and the nice lady I spoke to told me no defence had been filed and that I had to send in the form stating how I wanted to be paid.

 

So. This does mean I've won, right? Do I sing now or is there some other trick the bank can pull? Anyone?

[cookiecrumble2004]

In my case DG filed a defence on the last possible day in the afternoon. If you filed your claim with MCOL you can check progress on line. I like you thought they had failed to file on time. But when I checked again in the afternoon they had. It took a few days for the court to send the copy to me. I'm now awaiting a date from my local County court. In the meantime I'm sending nudge letters to DG with a copy to FD every week. So far no reply. Good luck

[Fox Mulder]

Thanks for getting back to me. The last date possible under the terms I was advised of by the court in writing was eight days ago. That was 28 days after the official date by which the court would deem the original notice to have been served.

 

DG had notified the court that they intended to defend, just over a week after the notice was served on the bank.

 

BUT when I called the court today, the lady I spoke to checked and confirmed that nothing had been received. It was she who went on to say, get the form back and let us know how you want to be paid.

 

So I guess I am almost home and dry on this one (but not the others I have proceeding or plan to start!). I don't know how this happened but I'm pleased! x

[Fox Mulder]

By the way, I meant to say, I didn't use MCOL. I used the N1 form and sent it to the court directly. I was also claiming cumulative contractual interest at the bank's authorised overdraft standard rate as advertised, plus a daily rate based on that for the amount in entirety from the point at which my claim went in.

[fizz1969]

Hi

 

We have just received a letter from our local court saying we are now on the small claims track - against First Direct for 2.2K (inc interest) - nothing to complete - nothing to do as far as I can see - are we waiting for a questionairre or a court date etc? is there anything we should be doing in the meantime?

 

With Thanks in advance for help??!!

 

a

[Fox Mulder]

fizz1969, I would advise calling the court and simply asking them if you need to do anything at this stage with regards to whatever has been sent out to you. That's basically what I did this week, called for advice, and the woman I spoke to was more than happy to help.

 

There will be no court date unless a defence has been filed. Did you get a Notice of Issue telling you when the court deemed the bank to have received what is basically notice that you're suing? It has 14 days tops from that date to notify that it intends to defend. If it does notify the court, you will get to know and the bank will have added a further 14 days to the time allowed it.

 

28 days in total. The bank could do one of the following:

 

1) Not respond at all, in which case you win by default after 14 days.

2) Notify it intends to defend, then no defence is filed. So you win after 28 days.

3) Notify it intends to defend, then submits a defence meaning you need your court bundle and to turn up in court on the day prepared to argue your case.

 

With (1) and (2) you would need to send the form back to the court asking for judgement and payment to be made, so keep an eye on dates. It was eight days after the last day the defence could be filed by before I sent my form back, but I could have done it sooner - some elsewhere on the forums have notified that they did, successfully.

 

But yeah, if in doubt, you can phone the court but try to get your answers elsewhere first as they are going to be very busy, all of the time!

 

I hope some useful stuff is in my answer for you.

[dar£n]

Hi

 

We have just received a letter from our local court saying we are now on the small claims track - against First Direct for 2.2K (inc interest) - nothing to complete - nothing to do as far as I can see - are we waiting for a questionairre or a court date etc? is there anything we should be doing in the meantime?

 

With Thanks in advance for help??!!

 

a

 

Hi Fizz, if you start your own thread all answers can be direct to your claim without getting confusing.

[Fox Mulder]

I sent the following letter rejigged to my own liking from a template found elsewhere on the site so it doesn't look like a form letter:

 

[insert addresses, date, etc]

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

You have not filed a defence for claim number XXXXXXX at XXXXXXXX County Court, and the time to file a defence has now passed and judgement in default has been sought and will be granted.

 

May XX 2007 was the date by which a defence was to be filed, and was not. A wait well in excess of one week beyond that date was generously allowed in fairness by myself for the possibility of you making some kind of representation to the court or myself directly with regards to settling this claim. No such communication was forthcoming.

 

I am now writing to give you one final opportunity to make full payment of £X,XXX.XX

 

If I have not received payment in full by 4pm on June XX 2007, seven days from now, I will apply for a warrant of execution.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXXXXXXX

[Fox Mulder]

A copy of the N30 Judgment for Claimant (in default) form came through the post today, instructing the bank to pay up.

[Talking Heads]

FD failed to lodge their completed AQ as at last week as instructed by the local judge, the court informed me that the judge had made his decision and that was it, they told me to complete the request for judgement section on the notice of issue form I received at the start of this process, form sent and waiting for a confirmation that I am successful, hopefully, still not counting and little chickens though!

[Fox Mulder]

FD failed to lodge their completed AQ as at last week as instructed by the local judge, the court informed me that the judge had made his decision and that was it, they told me to complete the request for judgement section on the notice of issue form I received at the start of this process, form sent and waiting for a confirmation that I am successful, hopefully, still not counting and little chickens though!

 

Yeah, I won't quite believe until I see the money show up in my account but things are looking good. I wish you every success! I think the courts are actually showing less and less patience towards the banks, which long ago proved themselves abusive of the whole process by never turning up, requesting delays, and so on.

[Fox Mulder]

I sent the following today using FD's electronic messaging system when logged in:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

By now you will have been made aware of the Judgment for Claimant (in default) in respect of my action against the bank to recover charges set against my account between [date] and [date], the date at which I began proceedings.

 

I also wrote to you [insert date] advising you of the Judgement for Claimant.

 

You will know by now that the total sum to be refunded to my account stands at [insert figure]

 

I am sure that the bank will, as do I, wish to settle the claim speedily and so I am writing to ask when I can expect the above sum to be credited to my account.

 

Furthermore, while the claim did not reach court, I had already prepared my case for the possibility of having to attend the court. While this did not happen because you failed to provide a defence, I remain prepared to go to court and argue my case in any future action, if such action were to be deemed necessary by myself in order to recover the additional charges set against my account since [insert date at which your claim went off to court].

 

The total charges set or to be set against my account since [insert date of claim]—the final date on the Statement of Charges as submitted to the bank and the court—are as follows.

 

[insert list of charges with dates and types of charge]

 

I ask the bank NOT to remove the overdraft fee of [] currently scheduled to be taken from my account [], and to refund the [] taken from my account since [date of claim form going to court] to date.

 

If the bank will not see fit to accede to this request, then I intend to pursue the recovery of [full amount taken since court claim went in].

 

I am therefore writing to you with the suggestion that you not only pay the sum required by the Judgment documentation but that you also refund the monies taken since court action commenced. This will assist in both the bank and myself being able to put these matters to rest without either side incurring further administrative and other costs or attendant publicity.

 

Please note I am not in any way expecting the bank to directly acknowledge to me that the charges were penalties or in any way unfair, though I believe this to be the case. It would be for the court to determine, of course, if matters proceed to that stage.

 

It is my hopeful expectation, however, that the bank will see the sense in not only settling the current claim quickly and efficiently but in seeking through restorative action to prevent the possibility of a second court action.

 

Relations between myself and the bank would be greatly improved by such a gesture.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

[insert name]

[Talking Heads]

Will make sure I do the same, good luck.

[Fox Mulder]

Will make sure I do the same, good luck.

 

Thanks! You too. They're being uncharacteristically tardy in responding to my e-message today. Me thinks they're probably having to consult their solicitors, or maybe kicking up a stink if it turns out my case slipped through someone's filing tray onto the floor....

[Fox Mulder]

FD has so far failed to respond to my e-message sent through its online system. I wrote a signed-for delivery letter, nothing. I don't want to call the bank because anything verbal is disputable but the clock is ticking and if I don't hear from them by the 12th I have to go for a Warrant of Execution which will be a nuisance to say the least.

 

Anyone have any idea why the bank has gone silent on me? I'm strangely stonewalled. Any advice, please? Thank you!

[Fox Mulder]

I got a response to my e-message at last, which basically said things are being dealt with by HSBC Legal. I was told that payment will be made to my account upon receipt of 'their advice' but also that I am to receive a separate letter about the charges incurred on the account since the claim went to court, as I asked for those to be refunded to avoid any need for future litigation and as an act of good faith for our future dealings.

 

I replied as follows, with bits snipped out, of course, in this public arena!

 

Dear XXXXX

 

Many thanks for your electronic communication sent today.

 

I look forward to payment of XXXX detailed in the Judgment for Claim to be made by XXXXXXX at the latest, as previously instructed in writing.

 

I await your letter regarding the charges incurred in [months] that is, those charges set against my account since my claim was presented to the County Court.

 

I have previously notified, and do so again now, that it is entirely acceptable and convenient for payment to be made directly into my current account with First Direct.

 

Thank you once again.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXXXXXX

 

Now it's a full three weeks since the bank should have filed a defence, so I really would be surprised if it was able to or even wanted to apply for a stay of execution, or the ability to file a late defence. If it had been within a few days, sure, but this long? Not very likely. After all, if an individual can remember deadlines then a bank, with all its resources, should be able to do the same...

 

So, I've just got to wait now for someone in HSBC Legal to action the court order, knowing that they've got until a set date to get the money to me.

 

Do people generally get their money at the eleventh hour?

[Fox Mulder]

The county court has written to me to say the judgment against my bank has been set aside as the defendant—that is, the bank—has been allowed to file a defence.

 

Something tells me the common people aren’t cut as much slack by the judicial system as big money concerns, but the defence is a standard template running to just two pages. Yet on the same day I get the notification from the court, I get an offer in the post to refund all charges set against the account since the claim went to court, as those charges were not, obviously enough, included in the claim.

 

I asked for those charges back under the received and clear impression I had won by default. The fact that the bank is prepared to refund them reveals that it knows it will lose in court, assuming I have my arguments well-prepared (and I have no intention of doing anything less than my very best on that score).

 

The likelihood now is that before a court date is set the bank’s solicitors will write to me with an offer, which will be less than my claim and will therefore have to be refused. I have around 200 pages of defence documentation to prepare, I likely have to fill in an Allocation Questionnaire—which incurs a further cost to me, which I will get back when the bank loses—and then I have to get suited and booted and turn up on the day the judge hears the case in the full knowledge the bank will not show up. The banks never do.

 

The banks continue to abuse the process, and everyone involved. But while the judges are willing to allow them to submit paperwork late, I have little care for their public protestations in the media that they are overworked. Where they do act to stem the tide, it has on just those few occasions proven to be in favour of the banks, not the people. For shame.

 

I am required to sign a form to get the post-claim penalty charges back but, while such forms now declare that they are null and void if you amend them before return—because people have been doing that—the form doesn’t contain anything that would impact on my court claim or my ability to pursue the bank in the future if it imposes charges on my account again. All it says is that I agree my recent claim for post-claim charges will be settled. It will. So I’m happy to sign, which means I will get a welcome cash boost this week. Of course, some of that may have to be spent on the AQ to be recovered when absolute judgment is made in my favour, whenever the court hearing takes place. I will get more information in the post, no doubt later this week.

 

Be advised, though, these forms should never be signed if they compromise your rights in any way.

 

Did I swear this morning? Much. But this is a wilfully frustrating delay on the part of the bank and its solicitors. And that’s all. A delay that incurs more work on my part, but work I was prepared to undertake when I started the ball rolling. So I'm not back at square one. I'm back on track to take my fight to the courts.

 

I've never been to a court in my life. I'm looking forward to it!

[Fox Mulder]

This also means, by my way of thinking, that the final sum I will receive assuming I win at court is going to be greater because I am claiming contractual interest and filed for both the bank's standard authorised overdraft rate of interest to be applied OR the standard eight per cent.

 

Either way, the bank spends more money fighting and paying out.

[Fox Mulder]

I sent this today, which may be helpful to others faced with forms to sign for monies taken since the date your claims went to court:

 

Dear XXXXXXXX

 

Account Ref: XXXXXXXXXXX

 

I sent you an electronic message dated XXXXX, and sent a letter by signed-for delivery containing much the same information dated XXXX.

 

In those communications I asked you to refund the £XXXX charges imposed upon the above account since 20 April 2007 when my claim against the bank was submitted to the county court.

 

You replied 8 June 2007. In your letter you state that, ‘First Direct is prepared to make a payment [to me] in the sum of £XXXX, in full and final settlement of this matter’.

 

The declaration form that you ask me to sign and return in the prepaid envelope states that I ‘accept the sum of £XXXX in full and final settlement of my complaint dated XXXX against the bank and I understand the funds will be credited to [my] account’.

I therefore reasonably deduce from the wording of this declaration form that it in no way impacts upon the current or future claims, but that in signing I accept that my request that you refund the £XXXX charges, taken since court action began, will be fully acted upon to my satisfaction. With this understanding, I am happy to sign and enclose the form with this letter.

I await full settlement of the outstanding claim and thank you for your letter. I recognise that the bank does not admit any liability. The bank should also recognise that by signing this form I am in no way agreeing with the bank’s interpretation of the law or its actions with regard to fees imposed upon the account in the past, present or future.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

XXXXXXXXX

[Talking Heads]

Hi Fox Mulder, I keep an eye on your tread as it was simular to mine and looked like we were at the same stage, I received confirmation thet I had been awarded Judgement by default and wrote to DG Solicitors to nudge them along, after reading about your problems am now a bit concerned that the bank will apply for and get the judgement set aside, as you say we the little guys really do not matter eventhough the banks are wasting the courts time. I will update as and when I get more information.