Itsme VS Welcome Finance

[maybelline]

Hello, no luck with FLA, does anyone know if and when the law (which law?) Consumer Credit Act I suppose, changed with regard to charging a Mortgage Indemnity Fee for loans that are not mortgages (i.e. secured but less than 25K)?? this is the 'reason' I am informed that Welcome could charge this, but I think this in incorrect.

 

I am not aware of any changes to that effect in consumer law?

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts 1999

 

I cannot find anything that suggests that what Welcome were doing re placing mortgage fees on loans that are not mortgages is or ever was lawful!

[maybelline]

FSA Register

 

so they are regulated by FSA after all.

[itsmeandonlyme]

They are...i have complained to FSA..but they will never reply to you or let you know the outcome..I believe they gather complaints by individual and then check the company...but they would never let you know where their stand.....

[banksworstnightmare]

..

[davefirewalker]

Hi Maria

 

These are the replies that WF sent to me (from the other thread )

If as you say you agreement is the same as mine, then I dont think it matters where you signed it. It is more than likely unenforceable.

 

If it doesnt comply (and it wont) with sections 60, 61 of the CCA1974 then they are in big trouble.

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

-------------------

 

Mr D Firewalker

Liverpool

L*****

 

Central Recoveries

Mere Way

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

Tel: 01159849694 Fax: 0115 984 9693

 

Without Prejudiced

 

Dear Sir

 

Agreement ref *******

 

Thank you for your letter dated 12/03/2007 regarding the above account.

 

All your comments have been noted and under the circumstances we will be

amending your credit file to show this agreement as settled in Jan 2005.

 

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Department Manager

 

Zoe Wright

Dept Manager

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Our Ref ********** 27 March 2007

 

Mr Davefirewalker.....

*************

Liverpool

Lancashire

L** ***

 

Dear Mr Firewalker

 

Mere Way

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

Tel: 0115 984 9200 Fax: 0115 984 9201

 

Re: Account Number **********

 

I write with reference to the above agreement and the related account information

 

recorded at Experian, Equifax and Call Credit by Welcome Financial Services Limited. I am pleased to confirm that we have requested that Experian, Equifax and Call Credit to amend the account information to show as settled.

 

Please feel free to use this letter as proof of the amendment request.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation for you and on behalf of Welcome Financial Services Limited, please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

Yours sincerely

 

Kathy Martin

Compliance-Services.

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hello Dave, glad you posted it here.....

first of all ( about the agreement) mine is 2 sided..T&C are on the other side...so it looks like a true one....

My point is that they put an intrest on the acceptance fee ...and as you said if the loan was for 6..years..the intres has been paid for the acceptance fee for 3 years....Than the agreement doesnt tell you the final amount? Is it legal? Can i use this matter in the court?...Than in my Declaration form says : Loan is Secured on my hous..which i din't have and do not have?????

Than when i asked to cancel my PPI and Madicare thay sent me different Policy Schedule to the one that was supplied when the loan was given........

 

I am researching these topics..as it would be very important to know what i can do and what i can't.....

 

Your advice would be highly appreciated..as well as Pams..)But i will post it as well on the thread:)))

[davefirewalker]

can you post a copy of the docs? i can have a quick look.... but if it is anything like mine the t&c doesnt really matter. It must comply with the principles of section 60 + 61 of the cca1974, listed below.

 

basically

it must show both signatures

it must show the apr and percentage rate

it must show rights and remedies inc cancellation rights

it must show the total amount of loan

it must show total charge for credit

interest should be calculated on the loan and then any extras added on to give the full amount

 

I would reckon that this agreement (going by mine) would be unenforceable.

 

checkout the text of the CCA1974 and have a look at the CCA forum posts.

-------------------------

 

60 Form and content of agreements

 

(1) The Secretary of State shall make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements, and the regulations shall contain such provisions as appear to him appropriate with a view to ensuring that the debtor or hirer is made aware of—

 

(a) the rights and duties conferred or imposed on him by the agreement,

 

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a consumer credit agreement),

 

© the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

 

(d) any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.

 

 

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may in particular—

 

(a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in documents, and other specified material to be excluded;

 

(b) contain requirements to ensure that specified information is clearly brought to the attention of the debtor or hirer, and that one part of a document is not given insufficient or excessive prominence compared with another.

 

 

(3) If, on an application made to the Director by a person carrying on a consumer credit business or a consumer hire business, it appears to the Director impracticable for the applicant to comply with any requirement of regulations under subsection (1) in a particular case, he may, by notice to the applicant, direct that the requirement be waived or varied in relation to such agreements, and subject to such conditions (if any), as he may specify, and this Act and the regulations shall have effect accordingly.

 

(4) The Director shall give a notice under subsection (3) only if he is satisfied that to do so would not prejudice the interests of debtors or hirers.

 

 

 

61 Signing of agreement

 

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

 

(2) In addition, where the agreement is one to which section 58(1) applies, it is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) the requirements of section 58(1) were complied with, and

 

(b) the unexecuted agreement was sent, for his signature, to the debtor or hirer by post not less than seven days after a copy of it was given to him under section 58(1), and

 

© during the consideration period, the creditor or owner refrained from approaching the debtor or hirer (whether in person, by telephone or letter, or in any other way) except in response to a specific request made by the debtor or hirer after the beginning of the consideration period, and

 

(d) no notice of withdrawal by the debtor or hirer was received by the creditor or owner before the sending of the unexecuted agreement.

 

 

(3) In subsection (2)©, “the consideration period” means the period beginning with the giving of the copy under section 58(1) and ending—

 

(a) at the expiry of seven days after the day on which the unexecuted agreement is sent, for his signature, to the debtor or hirer, or

 

(b) on its return by the debtor or hirer after signature by him,

 

whichever first occurs.

 

(4) Where the debtor or hirer is a partnership or an unincorporated body of persons, subsection (1)(a) shall apply with the substitution for “by the debtor or hirer” of “by or on behalf of the debtor or hirer”.

 

 

rgds

 

Dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

Now, i am getting..you:))))my scanner-printer is out of order..waiting for a new one this monday tuesday...I am making a copies of the documents on my camera:))))ladies mind-can create everything:))) is it better to post it here or to email it to you?

 

kind regards,

 

Maria

[InKogneeToh]

Now, i am getting..you:))))my scanner-printer is out of order..waiting for a new one this monday tuesday...I am making a copies of the documents on my camera:))))ladies mind-can create everything:))) is it better to post it here or to email it to you?

 

kind regards,

 

Maria

 

Hi Maria

 

Are you able to upload images from your camera onto your computer? If so, you could save them as jpeg pictures in your documents folder and then attach them to an email.

 

Regards, Pam

[itsmeandonlyme]

Hi Maria

 

Are you able to upload images from your camera onto your computer? If so, you could save them as jpeg pictures in your documents folder and then attach them to an email.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Yes Pam, PM your email..i will do it straight away:)))

[davefirewalker]

Maria the address you gave me for the photo's doesnt work.....just get a russian website I dont think that you linked it properly.

 

dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

))))))))))I have sent you an other mail from Gmail this time:)))

Lets see if this one will open:)))))))))))))

[itsmeandonlyme]

Receive the copy of their defence....maid me smile:)))) Loads of work to do and phonecalls to make...will contact fsa and fla in regards of ...tell u later

 

Carinas, hoiw r u doing?

[davefirewalker]

good luck

 

Dave

[itsmeandonlyme]

thanks Dave......i do not know what to do... cry or laugh:)))one of those feelings...but still prepared to go through previously discussed route......

[carinas]

Receive the copy of their defence....maid me smile:)))) Loads of work to do and phonecalls to make...will contact fsa and fla in regards of ...tell u later

 

Carinas, hoiw r u doing?

 

Hi Its me!

 

So far i have only recieved a confirmation of their intent to defend. They are yet to submit their defence. What grounds are they defending on? Any chance of a quick PM to let me know what i should be expecting?

 

What exactly have you claimed for and did they have a copy of your signed agreement?

[reidnet]

Hi Itsme,

Good luck , and no doubt their Defence will be full of Nonsense,

 

Ian

[itsmeandonlyme]

)))It's ...Pam and Dave are helping me with the agreement, looking into defence ....and giving me some good advises.....

how r u?

...i have read GE Money's proposal for the hiring in November..they are having a laugh:))))??????

Have you sorted out your personal issues?

 

Nice to see u r back:))

 

Kind regrads,

 

 

Maria

[reidnet]

Thanks Maria,

I have resolved the personal Problems that we had last week, though will be pretty busy over the next couple of weeks ..

 

GE do not agree with the Small Claims, they want Fastrack, that way they can claim costs I believe.. And they have recommended a date in November.. They are taking the **** there I think. I will just have to wait and see what the court decide.. Small Claims or Fastrack.

 

Well hopefull there will be some Nice National Press Involvement..lol

 

Ian

[MCBIRNIE25]

Hi all,

i to am now taking on Welcome. I wanted to add my support to this thread.

[davefirewalker]

Hi mcbirnie "welcome" to the club.

 

first off, from what Ive seen and heard about welcome, their agreements are worthless. cca them and have a look at mine on post 317 in credit agreement or application. if it is the same then you are in with a chance.

 

good luck

 

rgds

 

Dave

[maybelline]

davefirewalker, hope you dont mind me jumping in here, I looked at the thread you mention above, I notice you had a welcome agreement written off? was it unfair terms or not properly executed agreement, pm if prefer:)

[angela1606]

hi dave can you tell me where the thread is for the credit agreement as i would love to see it but im being a bit blind today cant see it or if you can put a link in please

 

ang xxx

[davefirewalker]

hi all

debt written off because of lousy agreement

 

link here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/74733-credit-agreement-application-post690349.html#post690349

 

dave

[angela1606]

oohhhhhhhh you have me v v v excited now

 

as mine is similiar on the fact that the total amount not on agreement

 

mine is b,1500 amount of cash

c, 100 healthcare

h, 352.52 optional(yeah right)ppi

i, 1952.52 amount of credit

j, 75.00 acceptance fee

k, 2027.52 total amount of loan

 

amount each month 119.72

apr 48.5%

rate of interest 3.0% a month

estimated repayment period 24 months

 

real total is 119.72 x 24 = £2873.28

 

so am i going to have some fun with welcome then lol