UKPC DCBL - PCN 2019 - now claimform - McDonald's Gelderd Road Leeds ***Claim Discontinued***

[honeybee13]

Is that the heading of the letter? We usually only respond to a Letter Before Claim/Action.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

You've been here a long time now.

 

CAG is a self-help site.

 

Surely from the other threads you've read you know how these companies work and what powers debt collecting agencies have.

[lookinforinfo]

The trouble with UKPC is that they are members of the BPA and as such while they allow 5 minutes Consideration period once the motorist has decided to stay, that five minutes is absorbed into the parking period. This is in contrast to the IPC that include the Consideration period as part of the non contractual period that the vehicle is in the car park.

 

So you have overstayed by 7 minutes. Against that you can complain that the PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 although it is not cut and dried in this case. Some Judges will agree and others won't.

 

The first thing is that there is no period of Parking specified.  They do show that arrival and departure of your car but that is not the period of parking since driving to the parking space and from the parking space to the exit is obviously not a period when you are parked.

 

that takes a number of minutes off the time you spent in the car park by several minutes and the Consideration and Grace periods are minimums not strict times. 

 

This is to take into factors like some people will have to get children in and out of their seat belts while disabled people may take longer than others. And of course trying to find empty spaces, raffic waiting to get out of the car park onto a busy road or pedestrians crossing in front of you all add to the time spent not parked.

 

The second point is that the wording on the PCN does not comply with the Act. This is what  it should say

 

"f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

 

For a start they have not included the words in parentheses which has been enough at times for Judges to rule that the PCN is not compliant. All that means is that the keeper can no longer be liable for the debt..

 

But if the driver and keeper are the same person it makes it difficult for UKPC to prove that they are the same person. After all any member of the keeper's family is often able to drive the car plus anyone with a valid insurance policy  is also able to drive your car.

 

Thirdly as the time is only a few minutes out, it is critical that the cameras at the entrance and exit are synchronised and you should put hem to strict proof that they had been properly calibrated on the day you visited. And UKPC have history of falsifying records since the DVLA banned them from access to motorists data back in 2015 for a couple of months.

 

Fourthly their PCN does not comply with the Act.  The maximum that can be charged is the amount stated on the signage. yet they are saying that they will increase the price if debt collectors are involved. This has already been decided that this is viewed as double recovery.

 

So there are some reasons to argue with UKPC as well as no planning permission plus whatever problems may arise for them when we see the contract with the landowner.

[mrk1]

@lookinforinfo Thanks.. You make it sound like i have nothing to worry about?

 

[honeybee13]

You still need to read plenty of other threads though. If this goes to court, you will need to have understood how the whole thing works. We can' be there with you so you need to have read widely.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

I understand you now have a claim form for this case.  Can you please upload it here.

[dx100uk]

 

 

[mrk1]

How are they sending a claim form for this now?!

The dogs gave me a backdoor ccj for it, what are they even attempting here now?!

ha

 

First page of CF here.

 

 

Apr Claimform.pdf

[dx100uk]

no i bet the speculative invoice ref no. they are now after is not one listed on the one you are setting aside on your other thread?

go check.

[mrk1]

Well no. The one I’m setting aside is for the shopping centre. This one I just uploaded is for McDonald’s. And I made a thread last year about this and the dogs already give me a ccj for it. So what on earth are they playing at here. Insanity. 

[FTMDave]

I've just looked through all your posts under both user names.

 

UKPC - 11 PCNs, shopping complex, backdoor CCJ, now going for set aside.

 

Parking Eye, 1 PCN, Upper Mill, backdoor CCJ, basically knackered on that one.

 

Athena, 1 PCN, Lidl, don't know what stage as you haven't updated.

 

UKPC, 1 PCN, McDonalds, claim form stage.

 

The claim form is from the fourth case.  Totally different to the backdoor CCJ ones.

Edited April 30, 2023 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[mrk1]

Oh. 
Well they can try. 
Maybe I can go to court and defend it?! 
End of the day I was 7 minutes over and I had issue getting the van started. 
Plus what can they do other than ask the court pretty please put a Ccj on my file.

They can only do that and then harass me with letters to pay a speculative invoice.  

[dx100uk]

stop confusing a speculative claimform for an already adjudged and won CCJ!!

it is NOT!!!  

[mrk1]

A speculative claim form? 
it is sent by the court?! 
Also by ‘won ccj’ what do you mean.  

[Nicky Boy]

Even though it's sent by the courts, it's initiated by the fleecers... so,  speculative claim form.

They "won" a ccj on your other thread, because a speculative claim form was issued against you and then not defended.

 

With you already having been through all this, you STILL don't seem to have grasped the process...

[mrk1]

I know their claims for fines are speculative invoices but I thought claim forms were sent by court. 
So Shouod I just ignore this claim form or actually defend it. If it’s speculative I guess I don’t need to?? 

[honeybee13]

Is that a serious question?

 

You know what happened last time you didn't/couldn't respond to a claimform. If you ignore this one, it will go the same way as the claim that led to the CCJ you're trying to have set aside at the moment.

 

HB

[mrk1]

Thing is they have already given me a ccj and are trying with the 11pcn to give me another ccj as well as attend to invoice me for £2700. What will another Ccj do. 

It’s getting ridiculous now. My credit score is shot anyway. What will the stress of defending on this claim form do other than just waste more of my time. The system is set up to penalise normal people like me.

 

If I defend the claim form and lose I will have to pay. If I don’t defend it all they can do it add another lovely ccj on my file and the send me lovely letters and red ink to beg me for money. 

[Nicky Boy]

If you defend and lose, you still have the option not to pay.

So, there's nothing to lose other than your (and the team's) time.

[mrk1]

I still have the option to not pay? 
Is that

*I can laugh and walk out and tell

they good luck* ? 

 

Surely these dogs have to pay to take me to court. My understanding is small claims court cost £200/300 pound. They are claiming £275. So what gives if I just ‘decide not to pay if I lose’ ? Where is their incentive to waste their money trying to suck every ounce of blood out of me?

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

As I understand it, the claim costs £35.

[mrk1]

Ah right. I’d not be able to take anyone to court for £35 though. Must just be a perk for corrupt businesses. 

[Nicky Boy]

You still haven't picked up on their tactics yet.

They don't pay anything when they issue the claim.

The payment is due later on after the witness statement shenanigans.

So, it's due, after they've tried to scare the poop out of you and hopefully got you to pay up before they actually need to pay for the court action.

 

Also, they have a team of "scary" witness statement and letter writers who they employ anyway. So, that doesn't cost them any extra.

 

But, if you'd studied other threads on the forum, you'd have worked all this out.

[mrk1]

Well I’m not keen in playing their games. I feel the court system isn’t set up to help people like myself. 
I think I’m best ignoring their attempts to scare me. What they gonna do? Add another CCJ to my file? Send me some scary  letters with red ink on? 

[Nicky Boy]

The courts are set up to be impartial. Everyone has to abide by the same rules. Feeling hard done by won't help you.

 

Only thing I'll say about your plan to ignore everything is,  you've already invested ££'s in an attempt to recover the situation on your other thread.

 

Are you simply going to write that off?

Edited May 1, 2023 by Nicky Boy