OH been paying old business trade stock CCJ (sole Trader CCA Agreement?), Missed a few - now HCEO NOA

[morgan8080]

My husband has a £3000 debt which was taken to court and a judgement applied and agreed to pay £50 back a month.

I had missed 2 months, had emailed the solicitors it had been with and said i had made payment now and had no response to this

it would seem they had already sent this to an enforcement team.

I had a letter today from High Court Enforcement ltd - titled notice of enforcement.

Tried calling the solicitors it had been with but no one was there to talk to.

We have till 26th to call pay / set up payment plan

i was wondering if i could put a court form in to stop this or something else?

Thanks

[morgan8080]

from a bathroom company - trade account for stock couldn't pay it all at the time

their solicitors took to court and we had a ccj and have been paying £50 a month back .

Missed a few payments but had brought up to date a couple of weeks ago ( had missed 2 months ) but in this time without warning they must have applied for a writ of control?

Ive been paying since 2020 not in any arrears but did make a few payments late

Can i put in a n245? think thats right

[morgan8080]

not in both names only husband

not sure about a personal guarantee - i would need to ask for all paperwork. once n245 in and have time to request

home address is business address - was sole trader at time of trade account 

is an N245 best option? - will it give me enough time.

 

[morgan8080]

also - read this morning that - HCEO can enforce debts but not if regulated by CCA? and also that a sole trader is protected by CCA for business to business lending ( trade accounts )???

The High Court Enforcement Officer (known as the HCEO) is the preferred method of enforcement for the majority of County Court Judgments (CCJs). The HCEO is an employee of a private company licensed by the High Court to enforce debts with a value of over £600 (unless the debt is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act and under £25,000).

 

Protection under the Consumer Credit Act

If you operate as a sole trader you are also protected by the Consumer Credit Act, under which you count as an 'individual'. This applies to partnerships and unincorporated associations. The Act extends consumer credit regulation to business lending where the amount of the credit or hire agreement is £25,000 or less.

or does this not count as there is a CCJ and the company was fine to apply for writ of control in high court and employ services of HCEO?

but just read this..

High Court Enforcement Officers (HCEO) - HCEO's are authorised by the Ministry of Justice to execute High Court writs. They can seize and sell goods to cover the amount of a debt owed. They can also enforce and supervise the possession of a property and the return of goods. They replaced Sheriff's Officers in April 2004. Legislation relating the High Court Enforcement Officers includes the Sheriffs Act 1887 and the Courts Act 2003. The Sheriff's Office is still used as a trading name.

Unlike a County Court Bailiff, who is a civil servant, an HCEO is an Agent of the High Court appointed by the Ministry of Justice. To appoint an HCEO, the CCJ has to be transferred to the High Court, and a 'Writ of Control', formerly called a 'Writ of Fieri Facias', is issued. The debt must be over £600, and it cannot be one where judgment has previously been obtained for a debt owed under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
 

[morgan8080]

will put n245 in

but what do you think about referencing the debt is covered under CCA1974 and should not be dealt with by HCEO?

The debt / judgement is under his name not any business name - well thats what the details online of the CCJ state

actually some correspondence says business name ( sole trader so still covered under cca) and some correspondence says name or some says both?

online under judgements which paid to see -  the CCJ is registered under his name

[morgan8080]

How do I approach this Monday then

do I inform the solicitors I’ve dealt with about CCA and shouldn’t be HCEO 

do I apply for n245 

[morgan8080]

let me know if its not clear enough ill take a picture again. 

Do i email the solicitor tomorrow too as they can call it off cant they? Yes ill put an n245 in. Do i reference anywhere about the debt being covered under CCA and HCEO shouldn't be used

 

IMG_3844-1redacted.pdf

Edited July 17, 2023 by brassnecked
redacted identifying case numbers (BN)

[morgan8080]

Why do I put reason to vary amount?

Do I include details of it being covered under cca on there ?

I don’t want it to be turned down.

Need to ensure it’s agreed and accepted and if the party we owe money to don’t know we know about the cca and that they shouldn’t use HCEO then they may say no to the amount. They obviously want the money back quicker as we’ve been paying what’s been agreed just late paying a few times 

don't have an agreement copy just a letter saying your account has been opened and terms and conditions 

i had called the solicitors on friday and he called just now left a message saying returning my call but when instructed HCEO was behind by £50 on payments and we had been warned that this could happen as they are able to instruct them at anytime. 

I just want to let him know HCEO shouldn't have been instructed on a debt under CCA - if i did this and the n245 they wouldn't be able to say no would they to my agreed payment?

The N245 doesnt really give anywhere to add extra details like this only ..

• The form will be sent to the claimant to consider your offer.

• The court will send you an order giving details of how and when to pay or will tell you when to come to court. You will be informed of the court’s decision.

[morgan8080]

no they havent visited ive included the letter further above.

 

on the n245 there didnt seem to be a space to write why wanted to vary the order or suspend action. I havent sent yet. I assume i print off send to the court and await how to pay the £14 unless theres a way to send electronically . Perhaps i could send a covering letter to show why wanted to vary and include details about CCA

[morgan8080]

Hi yes n245 has all those details but no box / space to write an explanation at all?

would i write a covering letter as they obviously believe it is enforceable by HCEO and the court didnt check that the debt was valid to be enforced by HCEO??

so if the court or the solicitors arent aware then how they going to know be made aware if i dont reference it as i dont want it to be rejected and then the HCEO turn up and i am trying to say its not enforceable by them but they won't go and i should have already addressed this - they will just say they are acting on the writ they were given 

I contacted the solicitors friday as soon as letter came asking for a call back - havent engaged since only had a voicemail.

my proof is it is a trade account ..and i found out by accident that a sole trader is covered under CCA ? 

Protection under the Consumer Credit Act

If you operate as a sole trader you are also protected by the Consumer Credit Act, under which you count as an 'individual'. This applies to partnerships and unincorporated associations. The Act extends consumer credit regulation to business lending where the amount of the credit or hire agreement is £25,000 or less.

The Act does not apply to:

• limited companies
• limited liability partnerships
• individuals of 'high net worth' (as long as this is agreed in writing beforehand).

If you have a credit agreement that is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, your creditor has to make a claim against you in the County Court. They cannot apply to enforce the county court judgment in the High Court. The High Court is most likely to be used by creditors for claims over £100,000 for debts not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

[morgan8080]

The £50 a month i think was what we asked to pay and agreed by court

 

I dont necessarily need to lower it but i do want to stop enforcement action

[morgan8080]

Thanks so much , going to do now . Is it online or do you print the n245 off and send to court who issued the writ?

also it says on letter writ of control added through liverpool district registry - this is where i send my letter and n245 too isn't it

does this sound ok , will sort grammar out - or have i added too much and to keep it even briefer?

Dear Sir

Please find attached my N245 form for your consideration.

I felt it needed a covering letter due to the fact this debt to --------------- is covered under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as I am a sole trader and covered under the protection of the Consumer Credit Act for this debt. This should not have been passed to HCEO.

I have been making the £50 payments since judgement date of 02 October 2020. There have been late payments at times due to covid and the nature of being self-employed, but all payments are up to date. The balance is significantly higher now than when given the CCJ due to fees and now compliance fees added by HCEO.

I am asking to suspend the warrant and I am asking to continue to pay the £50 a month which was agreed with the court when given the judgement.

As covered under CCA 1974 the Regulated Consumer Agreement debt.so the use and fees of HCEO should not have occurred.

sorry am really stuck as when i try get the address for Liverpool district registry ( written on letter ) - all that comes up is Liverpool District Probate Registry??? 

spoke to enforcement section at liverpool civil and family court to see what address the Liverpool District Registry would be and they said it would be your local court you would send a n245 form too and the HCEO  company must have made a mistake on the letter ( notice of enforcement )

Send or take your completed N245 application form to the county court hearing centre that sent the warrant to you.

You will have to pay your fee to the court when you give them the application, unless you don't have to pay on the grounds of hardship

I need help , i now have no idea where to send

[morgan8080]

I dont know the address - its really unclear? if you type in Liverpool district registry it comes up as a probate court , or theres the civil and family court? if i send to wrong place it causes a big delay .

also FYI to address .

Ive had interest added on since 2020? hence why debt is larger now

Statutory interest on judgment debts

A claimant is entitled to statutory interest on a money judgment for a debt that is:[2]

• more than £5,000

• not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

The claimant is not entitled to statutory interest on a money judgment if the defendant is up to date on the payments under an instalment order.[3] This means a defendant's application to vary a judgment to an instalment order can stop statutory interest from running on the debt. 

ALSO BELOW - i am confused ( this is off shelter website )

Writ of control issued by the High Court

The County Court cannot deal with an application to suspend a writ of control when they receive an application to vary a judgment. The defendant must make a separate application to the High Court to stay execution of the writ of control. 

A stay of execution means the enforcement of an order is put off to a specified date or until a specified event occurs. 

The defendant must make an application on form N244 to the High Court and pay the appropriate fee. They must submit a witness statement explaining the facts of the case and reason for their application. The witness statement must refer to a signed statement of income and expenditure which shows their financial situation.

[morgan8080]

The enforcement guy at liverpool said it would be local court , i said not but he said it was ??? who should i call for right address

[morgan8080]

also i will get hold of original form - but here on a claim form i have it says in particulars of claim ( amount is with interest and £70 compensation )

they claimed interest under section 69 of county court act at rate of 8% a year from 2019-2020 on £311.60 and interest at same rate up to date of judgement  or earlier payment at daily rate of £0.72 plus the £70 plus fees of legal representative and county court fees

3 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Goes to the court that issued the Writ

what address is liverpool district registry - thats all it says..

[morgan8080]

thats the probate one is that right? ill try. 

When i send do i do it by post ( next day signed for ) 

[morgan8080]

its a probate telephone number and the woman on phone said to email liverpooldprenquiries@justice.gov.uk and ask?? This is a nightmare

[morgan8080]

ah right , i only had a letter from the enforcement company. I wanted to get it sent today but cannot believe how hard it is with so few details

just on a chat with business debt line.org to see if they had a way to find out the address this is what they said ?

If the agreement was regulated by the CCA then it will say it in the agreement so I'd check through the agreement and see what the terms and conditions of it say to be certain.

If you don't pay what the court has ordered on the CCJ, they can then use enforcement which includes using a bailiff as they are doing here with the writ of control.

If the debt is between £600 and £5k, they can choose to then escalate the enforcement to the high court, more information here: https://www.businessdebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/high-court-enforcement-ew/

If they have escalated it to the high court with the writ of control, then it's a little different what you'd need to do as the N245 will only cover applying for a variation of the CCJ (I'll explain more about this shortly) and not the writ in the high court.

 If they have escalated it to the high court, whether by mistake if the agreement is CCA regulated, or even if they can if it's not regulated, to stop the high court action you'd need to also apply for a stay of execution in the high court, where you can ask the high court to put a hold on the bailiff action and then apply for the variation in the county court using the N245. Now they've issued the writ of control, have you received any notice of enforcement from a high court enforcement officer (HCEO) giving you 7 days notice before they visit?

. If the debt has gone to the high court for a writ of control, if you only applied for a variation in the county court, this wouldn't stop the HCEO from acting on the writ of control through the high court, as the variation with the N245 will only apply to the CCJ in the county court. You can apply to suspend a warrant of control on the N245, but a warrant of control is when they're using a county court bailiff, not a HCEO as the HCEO will be acting on a writ not a warrant.

If you've not paid what the court has ordered (so for example you've been late on payments and defaulted on it), the creditor (the supplier) can then use enforcement as they're doing here. They can't use enforcement if you've not broken the terms of the CCJ. So if the terms of the CCJ have been broken, you'd need to apply for a variation on the N245 in the county court to ask the court to change the payments or to request they're put back to what they were.

Thank you.

If they're using enforcement it would suggest that you've broken the terms of the CCJ, such as making payments late. If they've issued a writ of control through the high court, applying on the N245 to suspend the warrant won't stop the HCEO, as the HCEO isn't acting on a warrant of control (this is only through the county court), they're acting on a writ of control through the high court, so you'd need to apply for the stay of execution in the high court, and then the variation in the county court to reset or change the payments on the CCJ to stop them being able to use enforcement going forward.

Thank you.

Looking at the court page, it looks like the high court in Liverpool is called the "Liverpool Circuit Commercial Court" and their address is Address: Liverpool Business and Property Courts, Liverpool Civil and Family Court, 35 Vernon St, Liverpool L2 2BX.

It also gives an email address and contact numbers so you can check with the court directly if you're uncertain: Email: LiverpoolBPC@justice.gov.uk Team leader Kevin Fitzmaurice: 0151 296 2483 Support through Court: 0151 296 2209 and 0151 296 2211 Telephone: Dave Troughton – 0151 296 2210 Email: liverpool@supportthroughcourt.org

[morgan8080]

do you agree with what was said?

not sure about the cca - he said it would only be covered if it states it in the credit agreement - which we dont have one  - only a letter saying It was set up and we had a letter saying we have opened a credit account for you , your credit limit is £5000 if you find this insufficient please contact me and we can come to an amicable agreement .

Then it just has conditions of sale attached to it with details about buying of goods etc

i can ask for one but on my covering letter can i still add about the debt is under the CCA 

i want to suspend action and then fight for the fees added.

interest is being added daily now its with HCEO

[morgan8080]

Don’t have a copy of agreement as it’s all happened in last few days I thought we were paying the £50’a month . I didn’t know about CCA so it’s only down to some researching that it could most likely be covered but I won’t know for definate till get a cooy

I just need to ensure for now no one will be knocking on door 

[morgan8080]

I’ve sent an email asking for this to be sent.

so plan is to send n244 to ask for stay of execution.

do I need to also send n245 to vary anything ?

it’s all a bit overwhelming .

I want to stop any action then will act on the CCA if needed.

i also do remember husband didnt have good enough credit but as he was working with them a lot they gave it to him as a favour at discretion of the boss.

The debt arose after their work had dried up so he couldn't pay back as he had no work and had to look elsewhere as he sub contracted to them

[morgan8080]

if you could help me i feel really lost and urgently need to send today

need to fill in n244 and email in and pay today

i dont know what am writing?

[morgan8080]

thank you

so do i do a n244 for stay of execution and also submit an n245 to vary or just leave it at the n244?

 

so sorry to ask questions 

[morgan8080]

17 hours ago, dx100uk said:

well in all truth it doesn't matter if they do, theres no right of forced entry so....

why not ring up the  bathroom company the claimant and ask for a copy by email PDF?, or ask them what it states at the top

typically it will say 'this agreement is covered by the consumer credit act 1974

or it will state it is not regulated/unregulated.

dx

if they dont have one or dont reply - can i say on my n244 that i believe it to be under CCA and have asked for a copy of credit agreement as we never got one only a welcome letter

[morgan8080]

my payment are all up to date

i dont want to deal with any HCEO , i have adhd and massive anxiety, i won't sleep if there could be a chance of a visit. The HCEO only set up a payment plan if they can come visit and there is charge for that and controlled goods agreement 

so far i have dealt with the solicitors before they applied for writ

Edited July 19, 2023 by morgan8080