JCI/BW Claimform - old Thames Water utilities supply

[PBean]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Northampton

 

Name of the Claimant ? JC International Acquisition 

 

Date of issue – 4th April 2023

 

file defence by Friday the 5th of may.

 

Particulars of Claim

1.The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £226.98 being monies due from the defendant to the claimant in respect of the water utility supply by Thames Water utilities Ltd to the defendant under account reference xxxxxxxxxx.

 

2. The rights, benefits and title of the account have been assigned to the claimant on 26/07/2022, notice of which has been given to the defendant pursuant to s.136 of the law of property act 1925.

 

3. The defendant has failed to make payment as and when it fell due and despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.  

 

What is the total value of the claim? 311.98
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? yes (claim sent to current address)
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Water
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After 2007

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? No
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Not sure, will check.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Assigned to debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Don't think so
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? When i moved out i thought I was all square
 

What was the date of your last payment? Approx. 3.5 years ago 

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? no
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? no

 

Hello good people of this forum!

 

I hope to get some advice on the above. I received the above claim on the 4th April, on that same day I acknowledged the claim, to defend in full and sent recorded signed for, a SAR letter to JC International and a CPR 31.14 request to BW legal (the solicitors), both have been delivered and signed for. I have had a letter back from BW Legal saying that they have requested the documents from JC and will forward them when they received them. I have heard nothing from JC about my SAR. 

 

At this point I thought I would have had more info from JC regarding this but sadly not. I thought it would be clear as, they send me proof that I owe the money, or not and I pay, or not. When I left the property that this debt is from I thought I was all square with Thames water hence me asking for the info required for me to check. 

 

With nothing I'm unsure what do do next? Presuming I hear nothing back in the next few days. I have to file defence by Friday the 5th of may.

 

I hope this is in the correct section of the forum, if more info is needed please ask.

 

Thanks in advance, hope someone can help?

 

Kind regards 

PBean

[dx100uk]

perfect you've done everything to date ok, though theres little point in an SAR to the claimant

they have to disclose everything they intend to rely upon by exhibits of paperwork at WS stage anyway.

 

you say you did get a letter of claim?

why did you not respond?

what other paperwork do you have historic wise too please?

 

plenty of util claimform threads here to read 

use our enhanced google searchbox 

 

[PBean]

Hi dx100uk

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

If they disclose everything at WS stage will this count as replying to my SAR? I needed the info to file a defence or admit and pay if its my mistake. would it not be to late at WS stage? From what I read I could AOS, request the info from them via SAR/CPR 31.14 then either change plea to guilty or defend myself? 

 

I did get a letter of claim, in Jan. I will admit to not opening the letter until after receiving the Claim form. I found it in the pile of unopened letters on the stairs. 

 

I have no historic paperwork at all, I relocated "up north" and the only paperwork I came with was from the sale of my old house, solicitors letters and stuff. I didn't feel the need to to bring all the old bills and stuff from my previous life with me, I thought I was all square with my finances when I left, maybe this was a bad idea. I do remember paying via Direct Debit, and not being on a meter, also informing them of my moving date in advance.

 

Not opening letters and not keeping old bills and stuff in my mind seems ok, but having to type it and admit it in public, makes me think its a little stupid lol. its a bit like therapy this .  

 

I will have a search around too. 

 

I have had a search and I'm a little clearer on the plan now I think. I will give it a few more days, in the mean time I will cobble together my defence and post it up soon. 

 

Thanks 

Kind regards

PBean 

Edited April 27, 2023 by PBean

[dx100uk]

you will be filing our generic no paperwork/holding defence you'll see in most util claimform threads here already.

 

pop your ideas up here in good time for checking before friday 4pm for checking

 

dx

 

[PBean]

HIya

 

Would something like this be ok? 

 

1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

2. Paragraph 1 is noted, I have in the past had water supplied by Thames Water utilities Ltd. But do not recall the specific account number the claimant states, nor ever leaving any debt owed by myself to them. 

3. The claimant has to date failed to supply any bills and/or a breakdown of their claim as to what specific period and address it might relate to despite previously requesting via Subject Access Request on the 4th April 2023 and a CPR 31:14 request sent to their solicitors on the 4th April 2023. The claimant has failed to respond to date. I am unable to defend accurately until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

5. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

Thanks for reading.

PBean
 

 

 

[dx100uk]

some of the right stuff but awfully short

 

there are several paragraphs of our usual no paperwork/holding defence missing there..

 

dx

 

[PBean]

(1) The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant Accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

(2) Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Thames Water utilities Ltd but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request which they have yet to respond.

 

(3) Paragraph 2 is noted. I do not recall having received a Notice of Assignment, as stated by the Claimant. I have requested a further copy from the claimant via Subject Access Request which they have yet to respond.

 

(4) Paragraph 3 is denied in regards that the claimant is misleading the court in its pleadings and has never made contact or made requests prior to issuing this claim. Its sole purpose in purchasing this debt was to litigate and secure a county court Judgment and therefore Pre Action Protocol was never attempted and should be considered in deciding the outcome of their claim

 

(5) It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(A) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and:

(B) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and:

(D) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

 (6) As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

(7)  By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant at this time is entitled to the relief.

 

 

 

The only bits I removed are the Consumer Credit Act bits. And other relevant things I see are Ofgem back billing rules. Better?

[dx100uk]

cca in para 2?

 

[Andyorch]

Quote

therefore Pre Action Protocol was never attempted and should be considered in deciding the outcome of their claim

Quote

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? yes

 

 

[PBean]

5 hours ago, Andyorch said:

 

 

I though pre action protocol was more than just notice of claim? From what I read anyway. Section 3 b was not followed, the letter is just a vague as the POC. I guess I'm wrong. And yes, the section 78 bit slipped past. 

 

 

(1) The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant Accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

(2) Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Thames Water utilities Ltd but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 which they have yet to respond.

 

(3) Paragraph 2 is noted. I do not recall having received a Notice of Assignment, as stated by the Claimant. I have requested a further copy from the claimant via Subject Access Request which they have yet to respond.

 

(4) It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(A) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and:

(B) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and:

(D) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

(5) As per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

(6)  By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant at this time is entitled to the relief.