Removal of Charge on Title Deeds

[loobyloo35]

sub

[clemma]

The 40 days run from the day of request......they are using delaying tactics

[tedney]

Thanks clemma, I thought so.

[tedney]

Following correct issue of SAR on 26th January,

my responses to two stalling letters from the OC, Marbles/HFC,

 

sent to the address provided by the OC as their "SAR Team",

 

and following a LBA sent to the same address,

 

I have received today a letter from "Beneficial" described as "a trading name of HFC Bank"

with the same PO box and post code as provided on the form of Marbles SAR Team,

stating that "(you will receive a full response within the next forty days":confused:.

 

Their letters never refer to the date of my correspondence, merely "your recent communication"

 

The LBA expires next week.

I had intended to begin action exactly on deadline.

 

Anyone have any advice as to how best to proceed now please

 

Seems like HFC are bending the rules a bit.

[tedney]

Before I found this excellent group,

I was served a SD by a credit card company which I tried to set aside.

 

Unfortunately, in the attempt, I did admit to a debt,

which included "unlawful charges".

 

Subsequently a charge was made on my property,

which includes a substantial increase over the account balance when the default was originally issued.

 

I did not get a copy of the agreement or any of the details referrred to on here at the time of the actions.

 

Is there any mileage in obtaining a copy of the CCA,

and "reopening" or contesting the outstanding balances?

 

Both before and after the default,

I have been making monthly payments, but the ongoing outstanding balance is increasing!

Any help would be appreciated.

[tedney]

Hello

I would really appreciate some advice on this, please see my post number 11. Deadline long past. No information received. What steps do you think would be best.

Thanks in advance.

[tedney]

LBA has been sent, their response was to acknowledge SAR and state that they would comply within 40 days, effectively 80 days from first SAR!

Any advice on next step please?

[womble72]

Hi Tedney,

 

Here is a link with what happens if they do not comply with your request and it will mean you taking them to court.

 

The next stage is issuing the court papers... - Havinastella V Lloyds TSB

 

I know nothing about the procedure but have a read on the above link and it looks like you will need a N1 form.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Womble

[tedney]

UPDATE

 

I issued an SAR to the OC back in March, and eventually got a response,

with numerous copy statements,

copies of my previous letters to the OC

and sundry screen print outs, including "journal entries".

 

The covering letter stated verbatim:

" Please find enclosed a copy of your legal agreement and any account related correspondence

(manual letters will be included if issued, systemic letters are not enclosed)"

The only "agreement" enclosed was a copy of my original card application.

 

There was no copy of the Default Notice, Statutory Demand, Legal Charge, Account Assignment or any other related correspondence.

 

A solicitor acting for the OC wrote to me saying that the account had been assigned as at May 2008.

 

In the SAR documents,

I have been sent copies of statements with the OC dated up to and including March 2009.

No mention of the assignee at all!

The balance as at May 2008 with the OC was approximately £1900 LESS than that quoted by the solicitor!

 

I have never been advised of any assignment by the OC,

merely by a solicitor who was acting for the OC,

and now seems also to be acting for the alleged assignee.

This letter was not sent by registered or recorded delivery.

 

The account balance indicated on the last statement was below that of the legal charge, which was provided to the OC.

Would the alleged assignee also now benefit from the legal charge, or does this remain with the OC?

 

 

I am continuing to pay monthly sums to the OC, and have not missed any payments since the demand was issued.

 

Has the assignment been carried out correctly?

Should I now be paying the "new" alleged assignee?

 

Any advice would be welcome please:confused:.

 

The legal charge etc. was entered into before I was aware of this excellent forum.

[lilly white]

ok lets go back a little

 

do you have a copy of the agreedment and can you post on here we can have a look.

 

ANY PPI ANY CHARGES HOW OLD IS THE DEBT.

[tedney]

Hello lilly white

 

I do have a copy of an agreement, if this is defined as the account application, but I don't have a scanner!

 

The copy I received in the SAR has my signature, in a "box" which I signed as an application.

There is also an illegible signature "On behalf of HFC Bank" which seems to be dated ??/10/02, I signed on July 2002.

 

There was no PPI and The account was defaulted in December 2006.

 

I could send copy to my son for him to scan in and forward on to me, if you think that would help.

 

Thanks

[tedney]

Another (small) update!

Having looked a little closer at the cc terms and conditions copy sent as part of their SAR response,

no rate of interest is shown and the term 'credit limit' and repayment terms are missing.

 

 

Also, "right to cancel" quotes FS regulations of 2004, copywrite date of document as June 2006,

but application was 2002!

 

Is any of this relevant, as I admitted the debt in court when I tried (unsuccesfully) to set aside the statutory demand.

[lilly white]

well given what you have said.

 

The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

 

The courts attention is drawn to the fact that where an agreement does not have the prescribed terms as stated in point 9 it is not compliant with section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore not enforceable by s127 (3). The courts attention is also drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 and the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI2004/1482) the agreement cannot be enforced

 

18. With regards to the Authority cited in point 11, I refer to LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD in the House of Lords Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) paragraph 29

” The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order.”

[lilly white]

Consumer Credit Act 1974 This version of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 has simply been scanned in from a printed copy.

 

check out 142.

 

do has much research as you can

[tedney]

Thanks for that lilly white,

I will have a look at the document in your post #18 above,

and see if I can identify further relevant details.

 

As I admitted the debt in a court,

albeit at a significant lower amount than that which the alleged assignee is now indicating,

do you think there is any mileage in confronting OC's solicitor and assignee's solicitor (same solicitor)

with "unenforceable" argument, as the OC has a charge on my property now?

[Seminole]

Is the solicitor Bryan Carter by any chance?

[tedney]

No, weightmans

[Seminole]

Thanks for that lilly white, I will have a look at the document in your post #18 above, and see if I can identify further relevant details.

 

As I admitted the debt in a court, albeit at a significant lower amount than that which the alleged assignee is now indicating, do you think there is any mileage in confronting OC's solicitor and assignee's solicitor (same solicitor) with "unenforceable" argument, as the OC has a charge on my property now?

 

Thanks for clarifying. Phoenix has cropped up here before but in the context of Bryan Carter.

 

Did this actually go to court or did you voluntarily agree to a charge in response to a Stat Demand?

 

If the agreement is unenforceable then the creditor has no way enforcing the alleged debt. In your case this means that any amount in excess of the charge can't be collected.

 

I am unsure what happens in respect of the charge itself.

[tedney]

I tried to get the SD set aside, as the amount stated on the SD was above the sum on the "default notice" by approx £K1.5.

(overall sum approx £K9)

 

 

Despite my sending all letters by recorded, W actually denied receiving some letters,

and arbitarily changed deadlines, even though I had responded within their original time limits,

and they had received my responses.

 

 

As I had admitted a lower debt the judge denied the set aside of the SD,

then W pressed for a legal charge on my (joint) property, or they would proceed with bankruptcy.

 

 

I got a solicitor involved at that point, on the advice of the CAB

(who had prepared a financial statement for me, sent to the OC) (I did not know of CAG at that time)

but the solicitor was not very well informed on such matters,

although he did manage to limit the sum in section 8 of the SD rather than an open ended amount originally inserted by W.

In view of above, I volunteered the charge, which was actioned.

 

 

I wish I had found this site sooner, as I am sure that the debt is one that is unenforceable,

as the CCA that has been provided in response to the SAR does not have interest rates, repayments etc.

 

 

The "assignment" was merely advised to me by a letter from W, not from the OC.

I have been making monthly payments since before the SD.

 

In response to the SAR, I received copy statements from the OC, even for months after the alleged assignment.

I have also received a statement from W, which shows a balance approx. £K2 above the OC statements for the same period!

I am still paying the OC, not the alleged assignor.

[tedney]

Having further checked my files,

the account was defaulted, with a notice providing 13 days (from date of notice to payment date).

 

 

Payment was not made, but I have never recieved any "termination notice" of the account from the OC

in fact after the DN, other than the letters about the SAR I have received nothing from the OC, only from their solicitor.

 

Should I have recived a termination notice?

IF so, what are the implications of not receiving one please?

[tedney]

The question is in the title:)

 

No CCJ, account defaulted but not terminated.

Account has allegedly been assigned from OC.

 

A statutory demand was issued for bankruptcy, but the petition was dismissed as voluntary charge provided.

 

Original debt details, such as if signed agreement can be provided and if it meets CCA requirements,

and if default notice complies has not been investigated or brought up with OC.

 

After further checking DN might not be correct as date for payment action was just 13 days from date of issue.

Is this a factor?

Is it worth pursuing?

[tedney]

Here is a letter I received a while ago (2007!) after I wrote to request a refund of charges

Marbles

PO Box 3607, Birmingham, B1 2XJ

Mr tedney

00/00/2007

 

Dear Mr tedney

 

Re: Account xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated 00/00/2007. I have now fully investigated the matters raised.

 

Default charges are charges payable if customers do not make the required minimum payment by thepayment due date, if they exceed their credit limit, or if a payment to their credit card account is returnedunpaid. The amount of these charges, and the circumstances in which they are applied, is set out clearly in HFC Bank's credit card agreements. We believe that HFC Bank's charges to customers are fair and reasonable.

 

The OFT has recently published the findings from its enquiry into default charges on credit cards. HFC Bank has carefully considered the OFT's publication and does not accept its findings. However, the OFT's

investigation has led to a change in market practices and HFC Bank has therefore decided, for commercial reasons and in the interests of customers, to reduce its credit card default charges for the future.

 

These changes do not affect charges that have already been applied. Accordingly, I regret that we are notprepared to make any refund of default charges or provide any compensation payments. I hope I have beenable to clarify HFC Bank's position on credit card charges.

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact me to bring this matter to my attention, I am only sorry it was necessary for you to do so. I hope that matters have now been resolved to your satisfaction. However, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0121 2I4 5841 or write to rne at the above address.

Customer Relations Manager

Executive Complaints

 

Your complaint has been investigated by:

 

Executive Complaints

Telephone: 0121 214 5841

Mon- Fri:8:00am-5:00pm

Our reference: 0000000000

 

 

The account has allegedly been past to Phoenix, what is the best way to proceed please, should I pursue Marbles for charges and interest? I know I have left it a long time, but I am only now getting to grips with all the outstanding accounts I have:oops:

marbleslettercharges.txt

Edited February 11, 2010 by tedney

[tedney]

As the thread title suggests:)

 

If an OC has a charge,

 

and then allegedly assigns the account to a DCA,

 

who has the charge on the property?

 

No "official" notification of assignment has been received,

 

just a letter from a solicitor.

 

Any thoughts would be welcome.

 

 

Thanks

[PGH7447]

Pass - what does the letter state

[harrassed senior]

Well my thought would be, assuming the Charge is backed up by a Court Order then it stays with the OC.

 

If, by voluntary you mean an Agreement only, not a Court Case, then not so sure.